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Re: [joeforte] whats ur gap- (between sport level and trad level):
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ceebo
Jun 1, 2011, 12:07 AM
Views: 5718
Registered: Nov 9, 2009
Posts: 862
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joeforte wrote: ceebo wrote: evon wrote: ceebo wrote: ajkclay wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: It is totally conceivable that your grades would be the same if you took that mindset. Gear placements can be learned so that they are as automatic as clipping a draw. I agree with this totally, I find that when I look at a potential placement for gear the image of the piece that will fit pops into my head including colour and shape, so I don't really have to think about what may or may not fit... I just reach for the appropriate piece, whack it in, clip and go, then forget about it unless I'm aware of it being dodgy... that's a whole other can of worms :) Cheers Adam But the very fact that you had to think about it, even for a split second is time lost over clipping a bolt. Add that over multiple placements and it is extra time that requires extra physical condition. On top of that, unless you have a photographic memory or are extremely good, you will have to look carefully at your gear and make sure you are picking out the right piece. In sport, i don't have to look at what quick draw i choose.. their all for the most part the same. Sorry for being picky, but these feel like important details to me that you are overlooking (maybe?). I don't think they are over looking those details, but the fact is those details are meaningless to the route rating. The issues that you are bringing up are specific to the climber not the route. The route, which must have a general rating cannot take into account individual climbers difficulty with finding the correct piece and getting pumped out. The route is how difficult it is to pull the crux move independent of placing pro, clipping bolts, or hang doggin’ on TR. As others have said 10b is 10b (at least at the same climbing area). However, a route that is 10b may feel like an 11b to one climber due inefficient gear placement. Once one becomes a trad superstar and can place gear without a seconds thought and in the most efficient way so as to reduce strain, then a 10b trad will be difficult to distinguish from a 10b sport or 10b TR For the 3rd time maybe.. i never said a 10b was not a 10b. The op was asking if others had a gap between their sport/trad. Unless the 10b just happens to be very easy for you making it impossible to distinguish difficulty between the styles, i don't know how you can say it will feel the same on TR or in sport/trad.. it is not possible. Most people here are talking about their upper limit of performance, it is just not plausible to top rope something at your absolute limit then expect to lead it on trad (or even sport) the next time. In my own experience it is within 10 attempts after that where i am able to sport lead my top rope limit, the difference is route specific endurance for the edded time spent clipping and efficiency of the clipping position's, not the moves themselves. As for trad i don't know.. i suspect at the very least it will be the same. If none of this made any difference, why are most of the hardest routes i have seen get sent have the quick draws pre placed before a serious attempt?. If anything the excuse of ''its more convenient to leave them their'' is just a subconscious (or maybe conscious) choice to reduce the physical toll and increase chance of success. Maybe those people see placing quick draws as a waste of ENERGY?. Or maybe im mistaken, and after that send they go back and climb the route with ought pre placing quick draws?. That mentality is not accepted or does not appear to be in trad. People don't ''pre place'' and then send a hard single pitch. It is a blatant difference. I hear what you are saying about those who are really good at placing gear. But i am still not convinced the best trad climber in the world could place gear as fast as i can clip a bolt, at least on a regular basis up a 20-30m route. . Routes are not graded on their "endurance factor". Ratings do not take into account the amount of time needed to clip bolts of place gear. THE RATING OF A ROUTE IS BASED ON THE SINGLE HARDEST MOVE OR SEQUENCE. It does not matter what you do during the rest of the climb. Sure, if you have great endurance, it will make doing a route on gear easier, because you have to take the time to place it, but it does not change the difficulty of the SINGLE HARDEST MOVE. Therefore, any "gap" in your sport vs. trad is either mental or endurance based (depending on the route). It is YOUR GAP, and has nothing to do with the difficulty of the SINGLE HARDEST MOVE.
First you start off with arguing against points that i never at any point made.. and then you finish with fully agreeing with what i have been talking about.
The endurance demands are differant.. and as you said (and as i said) that is why ''most'' will never truely have are TR/lead/trad levels the same (since we have lots of room in the grades to improve still). If you start off with TR at f7a and trad at f6c.. and then do nothing but trad (excuse the sport grades, just to make it simple). By the time you get your trad to f7a.. both are the same right?.. no?. It is likely you will then be able to ''physically'' top rope F7a+. This is not bouldering.. the major factor in big climbs is endurance. Less time placing and more time climbing = you finish the route quicker = less endurance needed = TR will be easier = you will climb harder on TR = ffs im done here, do you fucking get it yet?.
(This post was edited by ceebo on Jun 1, 2011, 12:11 AM)
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Post edited by ceebo
() on Jun 1, 2011, 12:08 AM
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Post edited by ceebo
() on Jun 1, 2011, 12:11 AM
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