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maurice
Jun 8, 2001, 6:27 PM
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In the gym i go to the routes are marked in this V system, what do they correspond to in american,or english?
i have found a few different sources saying
different things.Does anyone know?
So whats V1
or V2?
Thanks
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fiend
Jun 8, 2001, 7:43 PM
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The V scale (or Hueco scale) is the grading system used for boulder problems. These grades are the equivalent of the hardest moves on a route.
eg. V3= aprox. 5.10b
This means that if you were to condense a 5.10b climb into a smaller boulder problem it would be rated V3
V0 and V1 should be in the 5.9 to 5.10a range. Anything below V0 is usually given a grade of 5.8 or lower.
-mark
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maurice
Jun 8, 2001, 8:13 PM
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Hey thanks, that straightned that one out..
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fiend
Jun 8, 2001, 8:19 PM
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no problem
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offwidthclimber
Jun 8, 2001, 11:58 PM
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V3 is not 5.10b. 5.10b is like V0. V3 is 5.11+.
Here's the breakdown.
V0- .9
V0 .10-
V0+ .10+
V1 .11-
V2 .11
V3 .11+
V4 .12-
V5 .12
V6 .12+
V7 .13-
V8 .13
V9 .13+
V10 .14a
V11 .14b
V12 .14c
V13 .14d
V14 .15a
http://www.bouldering.com/bouldering_ratingsconversion_cha.htm
http://www.climbing.com/Pages/rockcraft/Bouldering/rockcraft-bould-ratings.html
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maurice
Jun 9, 2001, 3:05 AM
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cool, that means i can make 5.11 climbs, thats a big improvement for me..
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maurice
Jun 9, 2001, 9:15 PM
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i know that the two are competely different, ut i just liked the sound of 5.11, thats all.
I have cimbed also , but nowhere near the standard of 5.11, i was juts trying to get a feel for my level, you're right though, i agree..
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trevor
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Jun 10, 2001, 4:28 AM
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Another 2 HUGE problems with rankings are:
1) A 5.11c in New York is not the same as a 5.11c in Nevada. Which one is harder? Who knows! Unless the same person climbs both routes within a short time period, you really can't know if you are comparing apples with apples.
2) Someone who climbs a lot of caves and inverted routes may get on a flat wall and may feel like a beginner...and the reverse is true. You can apply this same concept to different type of rock.
Conclusion: Just because you climb a 5.12a granite overhang in North Carolina, doesn't mean that you can climb a 5.12a sandstone slab in Utah. And trying to compare bouldering with sport climbing is even more meaningless.... However trying to compare them is still interesting!
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fiend
Jun 10, 2001, 4:12 PM
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This is another example of how grades are subjective. There are about 60 different grade conversion charts out there and the one I looked at showed V3 to equal 5.10b. 8a.nu
[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2001-06-10 09:13 ]
[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2001-06-10 09:15 ]
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offwidthclimber
Jun 11, 2001, 1:32 AM
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hey fiend, i see where you got the 10b, but just so you know, the 8a.nu chart isn't right. every other chart i've seen has V3 at 5.11+.
and as others mentioned, trying to equate bouldering abilities to sport climbing abilities or vice versa is difficult. just cause you can do V4 doesn't mean you can do 5.12a. i spent a couple months exclusively bouldering this last winter and while i could do V4, i nearly got spanked on a 5.10c because my stamina had gone to hell. the holds felt huge and the moves casual, but i got a wicked pump quick!
peace all.
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clipngo
Nov 12, 2001, 4:17 AM
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There are as many different ways to train for
strength and endurance as there are routes at any major climbing area. Your best bet is try several over a period of time find what works for you and stick with it. Good Luck.
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timhinck
Dec 25, 2001, 1:07 AM
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Hey Climboy:
I sympathize with what you are saying. I think that the goal is to rate boulder problems so that it would take as much effort to climb a V3 as a 5.11d/5.12a. But I think this is where the problem comes:
most people rate boulder problems on how the crux move compares to the crux move on a route. That means that most V3's just have a single move that equals the single crux move on a 5.11d. But then you think about all that climbing before and after the crux on the route. That means that the route will be much harder than the boulder problem. But that is also why you can climb a V7: because if it were being compared to a 5.13 route, you COULD probably do the three or four moves on the 5.13 that compare it to the V7, but with all the climbing before and after, you end up not being able to climb the 5.13, but you can climb the V7 with just 4 moves.
Does that make sense?? I think mose people can boulder a few grades harder than they can climb.
peace,
tim
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geckobean1
Sep 1, 2002, 1:29 AM
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I think offwidthclimber's scale is right. So far the hardest i have climbed is 5.11, and bouldered V2. Which by his chart are equal.
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bluesky
Sep 1, 2002, 8:26 PM
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Too many variables in these Vscale/YDS conversion equations to nail down concrete answers... but opposed to others on this thread I did my first 13 before my first V7. A few years ago I did my first 12+'s before doing my first V6.
These conversions are sometimes useful for comparing routes verses boulders. For example, I could describe a 5.13b that I've worked as a 5.11b vertical pocketed wall to a crux 8 foot horizontal roof with a rounded lip which breaks down into a v3 to a clipping stance and a v6 to the anchors. But that would be a little anal wouldn't it
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jt512
Sep 1, 2002, 11:03 PM
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For what it's worth, Climbing trainer/author Heather Sagar-Reynolds says that a well-rounded climber should be able to boulder three letter grades higher (on the YDS scale) than s/he can redpoint a route. She equates V3 to 5.12a and V6 to 5.12d. Thus, a 5.12a redpoint climber should be able to send a V6 boulder problem.
This means I should be able to boulder V8! Uh oh, I better get to work on my bouldering.
-Jay
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cholo
Sep 7, 2002, 12:05 AM
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grades are totally subjective, but I don't think that most people necessarily boulder harder than they climb. Some climbers are better at bouldering; some are better at endurance.
For example, I know of plenty of "route climbers" who can't boulder the equivilant V-grade. Most 5.13a's don't have any moves even close to V7 (The "equivilant" bouldering grade). The cruxes tend to be more like V4 to V6 at the most w/ some additional 5.11 or 5.12 climbing up to or after the crux -- as a generality. There are just so many variables out there:
individual strengths
fast twitch/versus endurance athletes
reachy moves/scrunchy moves
different ratings in different areas
Sandbags vs. soft grading
trad vs. sport
slab vs. overhang
conditions
blah, blah, blah the list is almost endless
you just can't quantify the experience like it's some kind of science, yet you can still see progression in your own climbing, which is interesting.
The biggest lie I ever heard as a beginner climber was when I asked about a route I had done that was rated 5.10a. I had really wanted to do a 5.10 and it being the first, I asked the local climbing guru the difference between all the 5.9's I had done and that 5.10a - 'cause I sure couldn't tell the difference. He said, "when you've been climbing for a while it'll all make sense." He was plainly full of shit!
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curt
Sep 14, 2002, 9:25 PM
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As I see it, here is the biggest problem with ratings correlations--especially between climbing routes and bouldering. I know and climb with people who have no problem doing sustained, rope length climbs of continuous 5.9 or 5.10 moves. Some of these people, however, can not execute a single V5 (5.12) move on a boulder. The converse also can be found. I know plenty of boulderers who can fire off a couple of V5 moves, but who would be swinging on the rope after 50 feet of pumpy, sustained 5.10 climbing on a route.
That is why the comparisons are a rough guide and (at best) will be pretty close for the aggregate of all climbers, even though a correlation may be pretty far off for an individual person, or when applied to an individual climb.
Regards,
Curt
ps. I also would like to add that I think the chart farther up this thread by "Offwidthclimber" is pretty accurate. It seems to be about the same as the conversion chart that I supplied John Sherman and appears in his book "Stone Crusade".
[ This Message was edited by: curt on 2002-09-14 14:30 ]
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philip
Oct 2, 2002, 2:48 PM
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For gym climbing I think the bouldering and leading ratings coincide. I boulder V7 /8 and I climb 5.13a- which is about V7-ish. Also while outdoor 13a which can be 150 ft may only have a V5 or V6 crux, a 30/40 ft gym 13a usually will have a V7 crux to it since it's not really testing endurance. However I should note that the 13a's I've done have been overhung and bouldery. I strongly doubt I could lead a vertical or slab 13a *shudder* inside.
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hyhuu
Oct 2, 2002, 3:39 PM
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Even though the V-scale and the YDS grades are not equivalant, I think the V translates to YDS rather well but not vice versa. Here is my point: At a certain V grade, like many have said, the "equivalent" route grade will not have any move equally hard, the hardest moves will be about 1-2 V grades lowers. So as a boulderer, with some extra displine by doing 4x4 by the end of your bouldering session, will generally have no problem climbing the "equivalent" route. But as a route climber of that grade, one will find it's extremely hard trying to pull the "equivalent" V-grade because no amount of endurance can substitute for the power. Like Yaniro once said: "If you can't pull a move then there is nothing to endure".
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boulderingmadman
Oct 2, 2002, 8:14 PM
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though "offwidthclimber" has the right idea in his translation of the YDS to v-scale conversion...ther really is no direct translation.
boiuldering and routeclimbing are different aspects of rockclimbing. its almost unexplainable how some routes feel "bouldery" anbd some boulder problems "feel like a small route", but it happens. there is a different feeling to a bouldery sequence and a route, IMHO.
with that said, trying to corelate bouldering and routeclimbing is a practice in the art of futility. if you cant even reasonably compare the climbs from the gunks to tuolomne meadows, and they are both YDS systems, how can you expect to realistically correlate two different aspects of the sport?? its like trying to correlate mixed climbing grades to bigwall grades. it just doesnt work...
and thats without even beginning to consider the sheer relativity of ALL grades in general...
[ This Message was edited by: boulderingmadman on 2002-10-02 13:16 ]
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spider-woman
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Oct 3, 2002, 12:13 AM
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I completely agree about the crappy rating systems. Well, I guess they aren't crappy. It is just that so many factors go into grading the rock, that what may be easier for one person might be harder for another. For example, length, size of holds, type of rock, angle of incline. I tried bouldering last weekend and was so disapointed. I only completed one V0 and an easy one at that. Bouldering and Climbing are completely different.
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gettingold
Oct 6, 2002, 2:03 PM
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I agree - isn't it time we all used the same grades?
C= Cool
VC = Very Cool
ASC = Ah so Cool
Aghhhh = Aghhh I fell! (Too hard!)
Be safe
Oldie
[ This Message was edited by: gettingold on 2002-10-06 07:04 ]
[ This Message was edited by: gettingold on 2002-10-06 07:08 ]
[ This Message was edited by: gettingold on 2002-10-06 07:09 ]
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bighigaz
Oct 6, 2002, 2:54 PM
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Hey guys, the rating systems DO convert, but nobody is ever going to agree... I like to think of bouldering simply as "Crux" Climbing... you might be able to pull off a 5.12 crux move on a boulder, but 60 feet up on a rock face it suddenly takes on a whole new meaning! Here's the scale conversion I prefer:
V-System-------YDS-------Description
V-Easy(VE)-----5.Easy----Warm-up, Cake
V-Fun(VF)------5.Fun-----EgoBooster,classic
V-Hard(VH)-----5.Hard----Grunts and Groans.
V-Heinous(VH+)-5.Heinous-Frickin' Hard.
V-???(V?)------5.???-----Puzzled,Stupified.
V-Scary(VS)----5.Scary---Don't die on it.
V-#@!~*(V!)----5.#@!~*---Mission Impossible
Should check out the forum on V-scale conversion in the bouldering section...
Or just bag it and go climb something!
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coclimber26
Oct 12, 2002, 10:10 PM
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If you can boulder a V3 then I would try to lead a 5.9/5.10 to make sure you have the endurance. big difference between bouldering power and climbing endurance
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fckn_fred
Oct 14, 2002, 5:15 PM
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if you think v3 if 5.10... go to the tanks... you will soon find out that v0- is 5.10 there...
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dbrayack
Dec 17, 2002, 2:41 PM
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Uh V3 is 11+ that last time I checked....but bouldering and climbing are so different. A 5.11+ face move = = V3, but the crux on Lactic Acid Bath (12d) is V3 if you hang at the bolt before and rest, and try it.
If you think V3 is 5.10, dude....you need to come bouldering at Cooper's Rocks
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flamingfeet17
Dec 17, 2002, 4:06 PM
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I think it takes different people to boulder and to climb. They're saying a V2-V3 is 5.10b dude that's a little bit too steep unless I'm just not as good at bouldering. I would say a V1 would equal maybe 5.9+ but not more.
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vaness
Dec 17, 2002, 4:48 PM
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i think that you shoud just try to think of them as dfferent scales. it starts at v0 and goes up to v15. same way you learned the YDS scale. i try not to compare the two.
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flamingfeet17
Dec 18, 2002, 2:35 AM
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VERY VERY VERY VERY GOOD IDEA!!!!!!!!
Why couldn't we all not think of this?
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surforclimb
Dec 31, 2002, 12:37 PM
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If you only boulder everone knows you get pumped out when on rope. if you throw in some cardio during the week. yes the treadmill or stair master, for about 1/2 hours 2 or 3 times your stamina on rope will go up with out having to get on a rope all the time. also you should get on a rope once a week and practice route finding. i hate being on rope. i feel more comfortable climbing without a rope. even routes. the rope just gets in the way. an i climb V5/6 and climb 12a. if you get on a rope for one or two climbs a week, your stamiina should not fall to far.
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aussierookie
Jan 31, 2003, 4:24 AM
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G'day! I've been climbing and bouldering at various indoor gyms around my area for about a year and a half. I simply think the bouldering and climbing grading systems cannot be compared. Full Stop. I climb (pyramid training) once a week, boulder twice a week, and also climb harder route once a week. I can climb consistently 22 (5.11a) at my local gym, and boulder v4. However, I have climbed 28+ at other gyms and bouldered V7. The variations in grades between different places puzzles me. In attempt to solve this problem, I'm going to do a ropes course and start climbing outdoors, now that I have some confidence in my abilty
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camhead
Jan 31, 2003, 4:57 AM
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my strength is definitely endurance, and I boulder WAY below the "equivalent" sport rating that I can redpoint.
I try not to think about it.
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coclimber26
Feb 1, 2003, 1:42 AM
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If a certain bouldering route converts to a 5.11 then try doing the problem 5 times withought taking a rest...then it might equal a 5.11 sport climb.
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snowrocker
Jul 1, 2003, 4:33 PM
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good post
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coclimber26
Jul 7, 2003, 7:56 AM
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A V3 = 5.11d.
Usually a climbers best redpoint is about 3-4 letter grades below that.
Redpoint = 5.11a
and best onsight 3 grades below that.
Onsight = 5.10b
and should be able to climb for an hour or so at 5.9 or below...
These are just number taken out of a book I read. Take em for what they are worth, just numbers.
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teddy
Jul 7, 2003, 8:55 AM
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ok then... u guys all know a lot more than me... but why use 8a.na or wateva it was, when theres one on this page?
B V0 5.10d 6a
B V1 5.11a 6b
B V2 5.11bc 6b+
B V3 5.11d 6c
B V4 5.12a 6c+
B V5 5.12bc 7a
B V6 5.12d 7a+
B V7 5.13a 7b
B V8 5.13bc 7b+
B V9 5.13d 7c
B V10 5.14a 7c+
B V11 5.14b 8a
B V12 5.14c 8a+
B V13 5.14d 8b
B V14 5.15a 8b+
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nobbers
Jul 27, 2003, 10:10 AM
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sorry to resurect this old thread.
i just wanted to add that it's not always that you should be able to boulder around 3 grades higher, though a lot of people can.
i can boulder about V7 pushing 8's, and i struggle with 12a on lead. but i know a guy that just lead his first 13a outside, and has some SERIOUS problems getting up a lot of V4's, and has never hit anything higher.
it is REALLY hard to compare bouldering (crux climbing) to sport, or lead, or trad. how hard would a V6 be if you had to hang on it every 10 feet with one hand to put a piece of pro in?
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jipstyle
Jul 27, 2003, 7:19 PM
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In reply to: if you think v3 if 5.10... go to the tanks... you will soon find out that v0- is 5.10 there...
Actually, fiend was in hueco just a couple of months ago ... :D
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thomasribiere
Jul 27, 2003, 8:47 PM
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:?: and another question what does the letter V mean??? Or is it the roman number V=5?
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jpb
Jul 28, 2003, 12:21 AM
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I am French Canadian , atheist , do not want guns in the hands of everyone and , Thomas , the V rating means "Verm" , for Vermin , the nickname of John Sherman . He changed the H ( Hueco ) grade to his own .
And that does not make a lot of sense , believe me ... the frades are off from one side of the US to the other . Maybe one day it will be standardized . See the book "Sherman exposed " by John Sherman , page 64 .
Stick to your Bleau grades !
Good climbing !
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dlintz
Jul 28, 2003, 1:52 AM
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"Sherman Exposed" is the perfect gift for anyone you know that might be taking grades a little too seriously. Hopefully the irony won't be lost.
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thomasribiere
Jul 28, 2003, 6:14 PM
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thanks! I like this Vermin...! Add some taste to bouldering! :lol:
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tenn_dawg
Aug 30, 2003, 3:48 AM
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Moved to Bouldering...
Travis
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johnfromohio
Sep 20, 2003, 12:50 AM
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who thoughts grades could be this confusing :roll:
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boulderin
Dec 23, 2003, 12:09 AM
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I prefer to boulder over anything else, I can do boulder problems all the way up to V8...But I couldn't climb a 5.12 to save my life. All I really know is that when I go climbing, I go to have fun. I dont care if its a V0, 5.4, or even a V10...When you start worrying about who you can outclimb, or who you are better than, than you are defeating the whole purpose...TO HAVE FUN! Personally I prefer to climb with people that are much better than me...that way I can actually learn something instead of trying to show off all the time... :lol:
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kalcario
Dec 23, 2003, 12:52 AM
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Sport climbing and bouldering only have one thing in common, individual move difficulty. Therefore you can easily say that *an individual move* on a route is v3 or whatever, but after that, the ability to compare pretty much ends, you can't really say that a route, the whole route, is, for instance, v3. The moves on a 12d-13a simply can't be v6 or 7, as many on this thread contend, because if I can't do v6-7 fresh on the ground, and I can't, it ain't gonna happen 50' up, yet I usually have pretty good success (with some toil) on routes of that grade. Really I think boulderers tend to overestimate the individual move difficulty of routes due to the endurance factor and just general lack of familiarity with roped climbing; your typical 12c usually has a v3 crux. To Bolt or Not To Be, 14a at Smith Rock, is merely sustained v3, I've been told by somebody I know who's done it and is also a v11 boulderer.
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curt
Dec 23, 2003, 1:19 AM
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Joe,
In reply to: The moves on a 12d-13a simply can't be v6 or 7, as many on this thread contend, because if I can't do v6-7 fresh on the ground, and I can't, it ain't gonna happen 50' up, yet I usually have pretty good success (with some toil) on routes of that grade.
That's one of the problems with trying to convert one difficulty scale to another. But, if you compare shorter, more bouldery routes, the comparison is closer and makes more sense.
Curt
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kalcario
Dec 23, 2003, 2:23 AM
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*On the other hand a 5.12d route that is 150 feet long--with no rests (endurance type route) may indeed have no single move harder than V3 or so.*
Curt. There's no such thing as a 150' 12d with no rests. Somewhere up there, there's gonna be a shakeout. A 150' 12d with no rests would be 5.14 or something. This is like when you were spraying about Bachar soloing 2000' of 5.11 in one day, it makes me think you don't really understand how routes are rated...
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curt
Dec 23, 2003, 2:52 AM
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In reply to: *On the other hand a 5.12d route that is 150 feet long--with no rests (endurance type route) may indeed have no single move harder than V3 or so.* Curt. There's no such thing as a 150' 12d with no rests. Somewhere up there, there's gonna be a shakeout. A 150' 12d with no rests would be 5.14 or something. This is like when you were spraying about Bachar soloing 2000' of 5.11 in one day, it makes me think you don't really understand how routes are rated...
OK, Guilty as charged. I don't know how panty waist sport-wanker routes are rated. That's because I am a real rock climber, asshole. Hahaha.
Curt
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whistleblower
Dec 23, 2003, 3:09 AM
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In reply to: *On the other hand a 5.12d route that is 150 feet long--with no rests (endurance type route) may indeed have no single move harder than V3 or so.* Curt. There's no such thing as a 150' 12d with no rests. Somewhere up there, there's gonna be a shakeout. A 150' 12d with no rests would be 5.14 or something. This is like when you were spraying about Bachar soloing 2000' of 5.11 in one day, it makes me think you don't really understand how routes are rated...
Kalcario, did you even read what Curt wrote? He was saying that a 150' long 5.12d route may have no single move harder than 5.11+ (V3). Couldn't this also be said as, "a 150' 11+ with no rests would be 5.12d or so?"
When you say that "a 150' 12d with no rests would be 5.14 or something," aren't you saying the EXACT same thing as him?
It seems to me that there are two ways to grade routes:
1) Grade it according to its hardest move.
Or 2) Grade it according to the overall effort required to do the climb.
Either one is silly in my opinion. The first favors power the second favors endurance.
You could argue using method one: This way you will know that on a 5.12a climb there will be at least one, perhaps many, moves of 5.12a in difficulty. First ascensionists, guidebooks, your buddy who just got on it... they can then qualify whether the route has a brief crux or is sustained.
You could also argue method two: An example... Take the famous El Matador at Devil's Tower. It is rated 10d/11a but supposedly "no move is harder than 5.9 - there's just 150' of them. Well, I'm willing to bet serious cash that even an uber-fit 5.9 max climber will not be able to do this climb. So this method of rating is good also because it tells the climber what they can expect (an easy or a difficult experience) before they get on the climb.
So which method is correct? DUH. Neither. There aren't RULES in climbing - especially not in grading climbs! Every guidebook I've seen has a big disclaimer about this on the front page.
My personal preference? You can try to convince me till I'm blue in the face that a climb should be rated according to the OVERALL effort required (method 2), but when I do first ascents I would still grade according to the hardest move. As somebody else quoted Tony Yaniro as saying, without the power to do the single crux move, endurance is meaningless. I personally like to know how hard that single crux move is before I step on a climb.
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axewielder
Dec 24, 2003, 12:47 AM
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I think that that "bouldering 3 letter grades higher than redpoint" thing works pretty well
however, if you don't work on the boulder problem as much as one would on a sport climb, it wouldn't work because that wouldn't be "well-rounded" climbing; the idea is supposed to apply to "well-rounded" climbers
im assuming you might work harder on sport climbs than boulder problems...
Anyway, i've redpointed 5.11c and V7; that is pretty messed up but I think I just haven't worked on single sport climbs enough, just working on them for a day or so
time to stop babbling
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axewielder
Dec 24, 2003, 12:49 AM
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sry, i was replying to something earler, i didn't quote
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devilontheloose
Apr 2, 2006, 11:03 PM
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I Boulder V5-7 and can lead 5.11 sport and 5.9-5.10 trad.
so these things are not comparable in that sense. add to that the idea that because i climb in Alaska its so much different than if i climbed in Red rock or J tree or anywhere else for that matter.
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bler
Apr 3, 2006, 10:12 PM
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all i see here is blah blah blah..
who gives a crap about ratings, they are generalized and usually not as percise as people expect them to be..
anyone who knows anything about bouldering development knows that ratings = generalized difficulty..
i hate people who wax for days on 'gee, that felt like a v4+, but it seems like a v4++, but really joe schmoe said its a v5--, but a v4+ and a v5- means that its a v7, get it?'
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mikej
Apr 3, 2006, 10:21 PM
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Die thread DIE! :deadhorse:
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ccox
Apr 3, 2006, 11:38 PM
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All things considered, grade comparison charts are accurate. I concur: Die Thread Die!
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billcoe_
Apr 4, 2006, 5:56 AM
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OK, Die, but lets revive it in 2009, 3 year hence. :lol:
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rocketsocks
Apr 4, 2006, 8:06 AM
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As others have pointed out, climb difficulty is multi-dimensional due to variations in skill set, strength, flexability, endurance, height, weight, etc. among climbers. It is mathematically impossible to create a fully consistent ordering system for anything multi-dimensional. You can create ordering systems, sure, but they will always have some weak point or inconsistency.
Comparing bouldering difficulty vs. route difficulty is just a reflection of the general difficulty of comparing the difficulty of one route to any other route. You can try, you can even do a good job, but it will never, ever, ever be 100% consistent.
It's almost a shame that a numbering system is used, it gives an air of accuracy and precision that just isn't, and can't be, there.
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jboulderct
Apr 4, 2006, 12:29 PM
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climb for the lines and and moves not the rating. :shock:
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sevrdhed
Apr 4, 2006, 1:00 PM
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Man, thread resurrection like mad! This is a good idea. I'm going to start browsing posts originating 5 years ago, and then reply by spraying like a skunk about my grades.
Steve
P.S. V8 5.12 booyah!
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me_lad
Apr 4, 2006, 2:16 PM
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Man,
I started this thread 5 years ago and people are still posting!!! I only asked as i was new to America and a complete gumby. All i knew what VS,HVS 5a, etc was, and have never heard of V grades :?
This was answered within the first 2 posts :)
grade on dudes!
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grateful1
Apr 14, 2006, 8:31 PM
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The V comes from the last name of this guy who was bouldering in Hueco way back in the day. I can't remember his name, but that's sort of why Hueco is sort of the Yosemite of bouldering.
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nfowler50
May 7, 2008, 5:18 AM
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need a scale where
a certain YDS grade = this V grade crux
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brian.haffner
May 18, 2008, 10:41 PM
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[quote] ps. I also would like to add that I think the chart farther up this thread by "Offwidthclimber" is pretty accurate. It seems to be about the same as the conversion chart that I supplied John Sherman and appears in his book "Stone Crusade." [/quote]
Dude - you gave John Sherman a conversion chart?! That's pretty funny, considering he invented the V scale.
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subantz
Nov 18, 2009, 8:00 PM
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Your wish is my command 2009 and its back.
It will never die. If so see you in 2012!
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subantz
Nov 18, 2009, 8:01 PM
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[quote "billcoe_"]OK, Die, but lets revive it in 2009, 3 year hence. :lol:[/quote]
Here are my marching orders for the day. I have a commitment here BILLY OH BILLLLLLY
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lostlazy
Nov 18, 2009, 8:27 PM
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What's bouldering ? A red-line comes up under it, so I know it's not a word...I'm confused...
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Bag11s
Nov 18, 2009, 11:48 PM
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I apologize in advance for feeding a dead horse.
I am a climber that plateaued for over fifteen years: Here's my experience based on quite a few boulders and routes climbed every year:
No more than V5 problems, maximum- when I’m in my best fitness.
No more than 12c sport, maximum- when I’m in my best fitness.
I also commonly see V2 through V4 boulder problems on 11d-12b routes.
Up to V5, my experience is that the two scales relate remarkably well.
This year a new bouldering gym opened near my house so my plan is to boulder methodically all winter and see if I can make a consistent breakthrough of (ideally) two V grades, and see how that translates in my climbing next year. Even in a few months at this gym, I have noticed improvements in power, technique and on-sight bouldering ability.
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subantz
Nov 19, 2009, 5:01 PM
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I like V4 problems. I can climb rocks> Am I a noob. Help
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sp00ki
Nov 19, 2009, 10:44 PM
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geckobean1 wrote: I think offwidthclimber's scale is right. So far the hardest i have climbed is 5.11, and bouldered V2. Which by his chart are equal.
This is pretty much it.
When you climb routes primarily, you will boulder much lower; when you boulder primarily, you will climb routes much lower.
To me, V2 is an onsight, but 5.11 isn't happening, period. You probably see 5.11 the way i see V4+, and V2 the way i see a 5.9.
These comparisons are typically made by those who climb both a lot, which is going to be more accurate than those who climb one discipline more than the other.
(This post was edited by sp00ki on Nov 19, 2009, 10:47 PM)
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curt
Nov 19, 2009, 11:41 PM
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brian.haffner wrote: [quote] ps. I also would like to add that I think the chart farther up this thread by "Offwidthclimber" is pretty accurate. It seems to be about the same as the conversion chart that I supplied John Sherman and appears in his book "Stone Crusade." [/quote] Dude - you gave John Sherman a conversion chart?! That's pretty funny, considering he invented the V scale.
So, when you look at the grade conversion chart in the back of Stone Crusade and it says "adapted from a compilation by Curt Shannon," what do you think that means?
Curt
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jbone
Nov 19, 2009, 11:51 PM
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You can have a V4 in a 5.12 but you can't have a 5.12 in a V4.
Bouldering grades are like atoms where route climbing grades are molecules.
It would be easier if beta for route climbing consisted of the series of bouldering grades you experience throughout the line, but when you start taking climbing that seriously you lose all the fun.
Every BP is V4, thats what I learned in Hueco.
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USnavy
Nov 20, 2009, 5:40 AM
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kalcario wrote: A 150' 12d with no rests would be 5.14 or something.
Maybe if every move was 5.12d but otherwise not. My current project is rated 5.12d. It’s about 75 - 80 feet long and it offers a rest about 8 feet up and another about 60 feet up. Other than that there are no reasonable rests. The first 20 feet is sustained mid 5.12 with a few legitimate 5.12d moves on ultra small and highly technical crimps. The next 40 feet is sustained 10+ to 11- on slightly overhanging sloapers. Then the final 15 feet is the second crux, 5.11c. The best climbers we have are working this route and ALL of them get completely destroyed trying it. By the time we hit the final 11c crux we are practically about to pass out from exhaustion and extreme pump. But despite the fact that you go from 5.12+ moves to 40 more feet of 5.11 over sloping and slightly overhanging moves, the route is still rated 5.12d and I agree with its rating. There are three people that have redpointed it. One rates it 5.12c/d, one rates it 5.12d, the last rated it 5.13a, and I think its 5.12d.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Nov 20, 2009, 5:46 AM)
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subantz
Nov 20, 2009, 6:03 AM
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Details curt DETAILS!!!!!
What does it mean. Only you the old wise one can explain to us
Please enlighten the masses!!!!
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pseudolith
Nov 23, 2009, 3:35 PM
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I've seen this mentioned several times before - references to a "first crux" and "second crux," and sometimes a "third crux" contained in a single route. If the crux is the single most critical or difficult move or section, then how can there be multiple cruxes (or cruces?)
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dudemanbu
Nov 23, 2009, 3:50 PM
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curt wrote: As I see it, here is the biggest problem with ratings correlations--especially between climbing routes and bouldering. I know and climb with people who have no problem doing sustained, rope length climbs of continuous 5.9 or 5.10 moves. Some of these people, however, can not execute a single V5 (5.12) move on a boulder. The converse also can be found. I know plenty of boulderers who can fire off a couple of V5 moves, but who would be swinging on the rope after 50 feet of pumpy, sustained 5.10 climbing on a route. That is why the comparisons are a rough guide and (at best) will be pretty close for the aggregate of all climbers, even though a correlation may be pretty far off for an individual person, or when applied to an individual climb. Regards, Curt ps. I also would like to add that I think the chart farther up this thread by "Offwidthclimber" is pretty accurate. It seems to be about the same as the conversion chart that I supplied John Sherman and appears in his book "Stone Crusade".
Wow, no sarcasm or derision out of both JT512 and curt on a noob post? It must be the holidays.
(This post was edited by dudemanbu on Nov 23, 2009, 3:50 PM)
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qtm
Nov 23, 2009, 4:29 PM
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pseudolith wrote: I've seen this mentioned several times before - references to a "first crux" and "second crux," and sometimes a "third crux" contained in a single route. If the crux is the single most critical or difficult move or section, then how can there be multiple cruxes (or cruces?)
(From dictionary.com)
Main Entry: crux
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural crux·es also cru·ces
1 : a puzzling or difficult problem : an unsolved question
2 : an essential point requiring resolution or resolving an outcome <the crux of the problem>
3 : a main or central feature (as of an argument)
Defs 1 & 2 do not preclude multiple cruxes. #3 could, but doesn't have to.
If you define a crux as "the single most critical..." then no, a route cannot have more than one crux. But there is no reason to limit it to such.
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NelsonDay
May 25, 2012, 9:34 PM
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Check out this link published by Rock and Ice Magazine:
http://www.rockandice.com/articles/how-to-climb/article/77-climbing-ratings-understanding-climbing-grades
Rating comparisons at the bottom.
Cheers,
Nelson
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sycamore
May 25, 2012, 11:47 PM
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A ten year thread that has been resurrected, what, 4 times now? Amazing!
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curt
May 26, 2012, 4:13 AM
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NelsonDay wrote: Check out this link published by Rock and Ice Magazine: http://www.rockandice.com/articles/how-to-climb/article/77-climbing-ratings-understanding-climbing-grades Rating comparisons at the bottom. Cheers, Nelson
That chart is clearly off for the lower V-grades. V1 is, by definition, 5.10+ and it goes up from there. V2 is around 5.11 a/b, V3 is around 5.11 c/d and V4 is around 5.12a.
Curt
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theextremist04
May 27, 2012, 6:27 PM
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curt wrote: NelsonDay wrote: Check out this link published by Rock and Ice Magazine: http://www.rockandice.com/articles/how-to-climb/article/77-climbing-ratings-understanding-climbing-grades Rating comparisons at the bottom. Cheers, Nelson That chart is clearly off for the lower V-grades. V1 is, by definition, 5.10+ and it goes up from there. V2 is around 5.11 a/b, V3 is around 5.11 c/d and V4 is around 5.12a. Curt
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sungam
May 27, 2012, 7:29 PM
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sycamore wrote: A ten year thread that has been resurrected, what, 4 times now? Amazing!
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hobgoblin11
Jun 4, 2012, 9:21 PM
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[quote "maurice"]cool, that means i can make 5.11 climbs, thats a big improvement for me..[/quote]
There is a HUGE difference between bouldering a V3 in the gym (which is REALLY a V1 at best outdoors) and may involve 5 or 6 moves VS. climbing a 100' crag rated at 5.11
after getting my ass handed to me at Culp Valley and Santee I stopped taking gym ratings seriously.
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