ur gonna die...

My friends and i are starting to climb harder routes and its a pain to sit there for ever holding onto the rope with a reverso. Which should i get a grigri or a cinch?
i tend to use my right as a brake hand but honestly it doesnt make much of a difference which hand i belay with.
Let me know

Meh, I usually use whichever tuber I grab first a majority of the time, and save the gri gri for toproping or fatties.

Trango Cinch, without a doubt. It's lighter, cheaper, and smaller than a GriGri.

The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong. The Cinch passes the rope through perfectly unbent and through a slightly larger cavity... it's science. Additionally, the only real safe method to feed rope quickly through a GriGri is slightly awkward, hence most people just squeeze the cam with their hand.... which causes idiots to drop their friends every year. The Cinch is much more intelligently designed, IMO.

The upcoming GG2 may change some of my above complaints, but the Cinch is still definitely cheaper. Since I like it so much, I have no intention of switching.

Additionally, the only real safe method to feed rope quickly through a GriGri is slightly awkward, hence most people just squeeze the cam with their hand.... which causes idiots to drop their friends every year.

Trango Cinch, without a doubt. It's lighter, cheaper, and smaller than a GriGri.

The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong. The Cinch passes the rope through perfectly unbent and through a slightly larger cavity... it's science. Additionally, the only real safe method to feed rope quickly through a GriGri is slightly awkward, hence most people just squeeze the cam with their hand.... which causes idiots to drop their friends every year. The Cinch is much more intelligently designed, IMO.

The upcoming GG2 may change some of my above complaints, but the Cinch is still definitely cheaper. Since I like it so much, I have no intention of switching.

The previous poster who mentioned that a GriGri feeds smoother is outright wrong.

I've used a friends cinch and I didn't like it. I find the rope runs smoother through a grigri and the grigri is easier to use in general (personal opinion).

So what you're saying is how I found the cinch vs grigri...my PERSONAL opinion...is wrong? You're implying that what I was actually feeling was that the cinch was feeding smoother and it was easier to use? Crazy!

So what you're saying is how I found the cinch vs grigri...my PERSONAL opinion...is wrong? You're implying that what I was actually feeling was that the cinch was feeding smoother and it was easier to use? Crazy!

I sure am. I know your thoughts. Trust me, I have ESPN. If I wanted your opinion, I would have given it to you.

And being serious for a second.... you're entitled to prefer the GriGri. It's irrelevant to me which belay device you choose. However, you can't claim that a GriGri feeds smoother - it's physically impossible (unless you were using the Cinch improperly). When feeding rope, the Cinch passes the rope in a straight line over the cam - effectively zero friction. The GriGri wraps the rope in a nearly 180 degree bend around the cam.

There is no way, under proper operating conditions, either theoretical or practical, whereby a GriGri can feed rope smoother than a Cinch.

QED

Is a Cinch easier to use than a GriGri?

The technique to feed rope fast is easier to master wjth the Cinch than the GG.
It just fits properly in the hand. 3 finger on brake @ 2 controlling Cinch.

I have both, got the GG first and 5 years later bought a Cinch. Never picked up the GG again.

The GriGri does a better job for top ropping.

Is a Cinch easier to use than a GriGri?

It's awkward, and worse, it still doesn't feed as smooth as grabbing the cam (AKA "the death belay") which is what ends up happening all over the country as n00bs think they're safer.

I actually think that the "new" method is smoother than just grabbing the entire device. Looping the brake end of the rope over the lip critically improves the smoothness of pulling the rope through.

They are slightly different. They are both relatively easy to use AS LONG AS YOU LEARN HOW TO USE THE DEVICE. They do not operate the same, and some folks prefer one, some folks prefer the other.

You will probably find the one you practice with the most to be easiest.

...

Get a Cinch, become proficient with it, and you'll hate using a Grigri. It will feel un-natural, clumsy and slow.

I'll get you started on learning to use it too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9TO5ikqXwo

BTW, learn to use each hand.

Really? I think it does just the opposite. I haven't used the "new" method much, but it seems to me that looping the rope over the lip of the grigri creates additional friction, making it more difficult to feed rope smoothly.

Jay

Well, I'm not exactly putting the rope in contact with the entire lip, or much of it at all. Try bending the brake end back towards you a little bit (like this http://www2.8a.nu/eng/pics/sterkygrigri.jpg ) and compare to having the rope run in the same plane as the GriGri.

I learned the grigri first, and felt very comfortable using it.

I got a cinch to try out, more for fun than anything else. It wasn't intuative for me, and I never felt as solid with the cinch as with the grigri. Not saying this is a flaw with the cinch, they just require a different belay technique.

I gave up on the cinch because I already had so much belay time in on the grigri where I felt solid, and didn't get enough benefit from using the cinch to warrant switching devices.

Holding my 10.1 rope bent back like that, I don't even have to press the cam down to feed rope unless it is a quick clip.

That's just it you can yard very hard on the rope with a Cinch and always have fingers on the brake.

Many people who start on the grigri find the cinch harder to use, but to say it is less intuitive than the grigri? The grigri is probably the least intuitive belay device there is.

That's exactly how I've done it.

Jay

There are people very firmly in the Cinch or the GriGri camp. I use both frequently, and use the new method for both. Thus, I use the method in the video posted earlier, and the new method endorsed by Petzl.

I find that the Cinch is easier to feed, but the difference between the two would not make me recommend one over the other. I believe that the new GriGri method is safer than the old method (just saw someone almost deck the other day when they slipped off while clipping; the belayer did not get their hand back to the rope fast enough; she was using the old method). The new method is also a little harder to get used.

I prefer lowering on the GriGri and find that it is easier to deal with when someone is dogging a route. The cinch feeds rope great and I prefer it when the climber is actually climbing.

Considering you are complaining about holding the rope while someone is dogging a route, I would lean a little (and very little) towards a GriGri.

why? Cinch should stay locked the same as a gri gri. To "unlock" the Cinch when someone is getting back on the route i step forward a step or do a little hop and it takes the pressure off and lets you feed smoothly again.

Considering that the GriGri requires little to none of this, I would consider it easier to deal with.

Considering that the GriGri requires little to none of this, I would consider it easier to deal with.

Considering that the GriGri requires little to none of this, I would consider it easier to deal with.

why? Cinch should stay locked the same as a gri gri. To "unlock" the Cinch when someone is getting back on the route i step forward a step or do a little hop and it takes the pressure off and lets you feed smoothly again.

lowering with the Cinch takes practice and perhaps a redirect off your leg loop. Belay gloves have improved this for me immensely.

I find the GriGri easier to unlock while someone is dogging a route. I don't have to do things like jump, and stepping forward is not always an option since I try to belay under the first bolt so I don't get pulled off my stance. I did not say that the Cinch is hard to deal with, just that the GriGri is easier to deal with. The longer handle also makes lowering easier, but I also have no problems lowering with the Cinch. I just find that lowering with the GriGri is easier.

If you're tired of holing the brake hand, you're getting an auto-lock for the wrong reason. It's posts like yours that make me feel queasy.

For what it's worth, I absolutely hate the GriGri, even though its the first belay device I learned to use. The whole pinch-to-release mechanism blows. I've known two people who were dropped on a GriGri because the natural reaction when surprised is to grab something. I've also been short-roped on a GriGri more than any other device and refuse to lead anything hard when climbing for the first time with a GriGri user. They're also heavy and dirty the rope quickly. Longest whipper I took was when being belayed on a GriGri because the user pulled out a lot of slack when I was clipping. It also doesn't bite on thin ropes well.

If you're tired of holing the brake hand, you're getting an auto-lock for the wrong reason. It's posts like yours that make me feel queasy.

For what it's worth, I absolutely hate the GriGri, even though its the first belay device I learned to use. The whole pinch-to-release mechanism blows.

I've known two people who were dropped on a GriGri because the natural reaction when surprised is to grab something.

I've also been short-roped on a GriGri more than any other device and refuse to lead anything hard when climbing for the first time with a GriGri user.

They're also heavy and dirty the rope quickly.

Longest whipper I took was when being belayed on a GriGri because the user pulled out a lot of slack when I was clipping.

It also doesn't bite on thin ropes well.

The cinch, on the other hand, is awesome and if you hold it the way I do there is a positive "pinch" motion to grip the rope which I love.

Reversing the motion un-grips the rope and I can give out slack as the leader pulls it and quickly take out unused slack.

It also works as a hand ascender although not very well (sucks as any other kind of ascender like foot, et cetera).

Another great feature is you can clip it to and un-clip it from a weighted rope which makes escaping the belay quick and easy, or when you need to pass a knot. I'm not aware of any other belay device that can do this other than one's butt.

The part that mostly rubs against the rope is steel so it doesn't dirty it as quickly

It dirties the rope because the part that grips the rope is made of aluminum. I would think that was obvious.

stainless steel cam and friction plate

grigri all the way. haters gonna hate

It dirties the rope because the part that grips the rope is made of aluminum. I would think that was obvious.

What about aluminum would make a rope dirty? If it does then this means everyone using an aluminum tube device and aluminum biners is making their rope dirty quicker.

Regardless, would still rather be belayed by anything else.

I wouldn't let somebody that doesn't know how to properly use a GriGri belay me with one either.

+1

i agree too. Saying something like "would still rather be belayed by anything else [other than a grigri] just shows a very fundamental lack of understanding the device..and...dare i say...belaying?

It dirties the rope because the part that grips the rope is made of aluminum. I would think that was obvious.

hahah. this thread is sooooooooooooo just...ugh. god.

The Cinch is lighter and it is easier to feed the rope. Again, it is not difficult to feed the rope with a GriGri. Fat ropes (fat 10.5, 11) can be difficult to feed in a Cinch, I have seen the GriGri not lock on a 9.4 (which is below the recommended diameter).

These problems are reportedly alleviated by the Grigri 2, due out in March 2011, which got rave reviews from attendees of the last Outdoor Show in Utah. If I were contemplating buying a Grigri, I'd wait till the Grigri 2 was available.

Jay

I would also recommend waiting until the GriGri 2 is out to make a decision on either device.

...I have no trouble lowering with either. I just find the GriGri easier, but it is not difficult to lower with the Cinch (the new version that is, the old version was a different story). One final thing, the Cinch is cheaper, and if money is an issue there is no reason to not to choose the Cinch.

Lowering with either the original or "improved" cinch is easy if you use your left hand and place your thumb under the pivot for the plastic handle.

Having owned both, I agree

Someone should try to combine the two devices, so that you get the easy rope feed of the cinch, but the safety of a gri gri.

The result would look like this:

[image]http://sofura.blogg.se/images/2008/grinch3_18101208.gif[/image]

Are you sure you don't get the reverse combination?

Are you sure you don't get the reverse combination?