I may have been a bit hasty/nasty, I just get mad because I have worked with land managers who see bolts/draws/ ladders hangin' all over the place and it makes for a difficult relationship when I want to put in a anchor for safety, Land managers that I have worked with really do not like seeing shiny bolts/ladders/stick clips/ sporty climbers, or empty beer cans, cig butts, tape, or fixed ropes/gear at or around the base of cliffs.

Its unfortunate that Land managers- mostly are not climbers and do not understand why we need anchors in the first place, I just feel that when an entire crowd is using stick clips it promotes that kind of mind set.

if the badass non-stickclippers are so badass, why don't they just solo the entire route? especially if the crux is before the first bolt.

i stick clip all the time. if u wanna get scared.. go trad climbing! or high-ball bouldering. duh.

I have a hard time imagining why someone would intend you to stick clip the second bolt. What is the first bolt for?

They cost about $2 and will last as long or longer than your "pole".


And you can still do all the stuff you can do with the other ones if you are any good.

They have bolts at rumney that are like 3' off the ground..

Don't stop by Monsters very often eh?

It seems like the development is done by committee there rather than by individual developers. I'm sure this has it's benefits. I think that Rumney doesn't have to be solely a clip-up, safe as can be, pseudo-gym environment. Yeah people can go to Cathedral or the Gunks if they want run out trad, but what about run out sport? From the routes I've climbed at Rumney it seems to me they all make the same statement: I only want to do safe, hard climbs. That's fine for some climbs, even the vast majority, especially since you can't protect the entire place with gear. I think it would be good for both the climbing community, and the rock to have some bold routes, or some routes that remain gear routes, even if that means they won't get climbed that much.

Think of it this way. If we say that safely bolted sport routes will get the traffic and trad climbs will get less traffic we're already limiting people in what they'll climb. I know a lot of people who are really hard sport climbers but I know very few of them or very few people in general who know anything about any gear besides quickdraws. If someone at Rumney walks by a climb that isn't bolted and thinks, man that looks cool, that might encourage them to learn how to place gear so they can climb it.

It seems that people, especially given the popularity of gyms, start in a safe environment and then seek it out. This is far different from how climbers started a long time ago. In that difference is a set of standards that come to be accepted and others disdained. I have no problem climbing nice, easy going sport routes. I have no problem climbing bold runout trad and sport routes on bad rock. I think that's the difference between me and many other climbers. People don't feel comfortable above trad gear or high above a bolt where they may be on the outer margins of safety so they think it's a bad route. There perceptions are determined by there experiences in climbing.

I have the thought climbing all the time. Man, that climb could really use another bolt (usually I think they could use like four more bolts). Then I remind myself that I chose to climb it and that I could have chosen another climb. I don't seek out the first ascencionist or bring the drill to make it safer. It's not my place or any one elses to make climbing a "safe" sport. The very qualities that make climbing such a fantastic and character building sport are slowly bolted away as more and more people shirk boldness in favor of physical difficulty. Having learned many things from many different climbers and many different climbing experiences I've come to realize a few things. One of the most important things I've come to realize is that as us young climbers become older climbers we will have a legacy to leave to the younger generation of climbers, just as it was left to us. That legacy can be one encouraging superior physical ability and all that comes with that or one that encourages a well rounded ability, physically and mentally, and imagination that will encourage climbing to be something that always remains interesting as opposed to simply a progression of physical strength.

Why do we need push people to learn to trad climb.. who the fuck cares. If they want to do it... they will.