BUT there is no reason to be a DICK! Cutting, Stealing, or tossing other peoples' draws is DICK MOVE! Dont do it!

HAHAHAHA!!! You're joking of course But since you and I don't actually know each other let me hit you with some knowledge.

I'm THAT guy:

Priest Draw: Carnivore V8. I comfortably boulder V10+.
If you're gonna pigeonhole me do it properly. I'm a "beanie wearing boulderer" THAT happens to climb sport (5.13+) and trad(5.12+) at a high level.

SO SORRY,

Supra.

First, a question - does this crag have other fixed draws? If not, I'd say strip 'em. If so, I'd say pony up and fix 'em right, if you can.

GO

blah blah blah...
[image]http://images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/533/800/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_375808.jpg[/image]

We're probably going back to this crag this weekend. If those draws are still up, I'm wondering what I should do with them. The crag is in the Sierras, and, after October 14, or sooner, if it snows, will be inaccessible until next summer. The crag is in a wilderness area. I'm leaning toward taking down the draws and bringing them home with me (as opposed to stashing them at the crag). Ideas?

Jay

First of all (for the third time), these aren't fixed draws; they're project draws. But, to answer your question, except for a few chain draws where the bolt had to be placed too high to clip, there are no routes equipped with permanent draws.

Jay

We're probably going back to this crag this weekend. If those draws are still up, I'm wondering what I should do with them. The crag is in the Sierras, and, after October 14, or sooner, if it snows, will be inaccessible until next summer. The crag is in a wilderness area. I'm leaning toward taking down the draws and bringing them home with me (as opposed to stashing them at the crag). Ideas?

Jay

We're probably going back to this crag this weekend. If those draws are still up, I'm wondering what I should do with them. The crag is in the Sierras, and, after October 14, or sooner, if it snows, will be inaccessible until next summer. The crag is in a wilderness area. I'm leaning toward taking down the draws and bringing them home with me (as opposed to stashing them at the crag). Ideas?

Jay

While that's certainly funny, I think he was entitled in this thread. I didn't consider it spray.

We're probably going back to this crag this weekend. If those draws are still up, I'm wondering what I should do with them. The crag is in the Sierras, and, after October 14, or sooner, if it snows, will be inaccessible until next summer. The crag is in a wilderness area. I'm leaning toward taking down the draws and bringing them home with me (as opposed to stashing them at the crag). Ideas?

Jay

Personally, I wouldn't go out of I way to deal with this. If I actually wanted to climb a route and would be refitting it with my own gear I would probably be inclined to leave the ones taken down. I might clip them to the first bolt if it wouldn't be a huge inconvenience to other climbers or leave them somewhere where they wouldn't be damaged any more than leaving them on the route.

If I did take them home I would probably leave a contact note in zip lock under a rock near the base of the route. In reality I doubt I would take them home.

Next week's thread "To the asshole that took down my project draws".

Why do you carry an 18" long chalkbag?

I don't know jake, if someone says 'if you disagree with me you're either a noob or a tard' I think some sport climbing credentials are appropriate.

I'm curious, and pardon me if I missed it in the first three pages, but if the draws are mank why is there any concern about returning them?

But why then would you encourage the owner to continue to climb on these draws.

I guess I would suggest destroying the nylon portion of the draws in what ever fashion you see fit. If the 'biners are good, drop 'em at the local shop and leave a note/ post like caughtinside suggested. Or maybe hang all the 'biners off the first bolt with or without a note.

If the owner shows up and gets pissed you could either kick him $20 for new dog bones or offer him the draws which you were going to supplant his mank with, or tell him to go f himself, whatever...

Jay we are not our Sister's keeper. We all have to be responsible for ourselves.

But ask youself this... if you put a bad draw back on a route and heard that the following day someone got hurt falling onto that draw and it broke - would you "feel" any responsibility?

ME: If I glanced at a draw and wondered 'hmmm, bad?' but just went about my business? No I would not feel any responsibility if someone else went on to get hurt using that draw.

But if I took it off the bolt, looked at it, refused to use it because of those looks, used my own draw instead but put this bullshit one back on at the end of day? And the next person who falls on it gets hurt?

I would feel a 'bit' of responsibility, yes. Responsibility in that I could have done something, and did not.

I can't say I'd always 'do the right thing' because no 2 situations are the same. And I really AM NOT my sister's keeper (just ask her, she'll tell you), so it might not even occur to me in every situation to 'dom something.'

Which is why I suggested disabling the bad draws. Treat em like a manky rap anchor - I can see no reason to support putting them back. In fact I have a problem with that. Take em, run em over with your car, chuck em in the river, give em to Goodwill I DON'T CARE.

Proper crag behavior should NEVER include purposely putting defective draws on a route.

The more I think about it the more I come back to the 'cut em J' position. Clearly the person who put them up there doesn't care either and would reuse them again. I wouldn't give her the chance.

DMT