|
healyje
May 26, 2005, 8:08 PM
Post #101 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
Ken trashing top anchors meant to spare trees is pretty reprehensible, but is simply a matter of him being thorough about the deed to make whatever statement he thinks he is making rather than any ethical/philisophical problem with the anchors per se.
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
May 26, 2005, 8:11 PM
Post #102 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
====================================================
Open note to Ken - or anyone currently communicating with Ken pass this on...
====================================================
I have nothing but the utmost respect for your climbs, your climbing abilities, your underlying ethics, and most of all your creativity. But you have to admit that you yourself have not always followed your own rules religiously and also that some of the people who do hold you in pretty high regard still have no shortage of issues with aspects of your behavior.
I can even understand to some extent how and why someone might act out when they feel their back is against the wall and feel they have worked every other avenue (and while that might have been the case the first go around, it certainly isn't the case this time...). I further know and understand that of late you have really been attempting to reach out to people, being nice, offering beta, and offering to climb - and that these efforts may not have resulted in the outcome you hoped. But regardless of that outcome, or whether someone has done something with a drill in CT that offends you, this course you're on solves nothing and simply serves you badly in the end; it neither ingratiates you with anyone, solves or redresses some wrong, nor does it give you an opportunity to communicate your displeasure.
To be honest, if this is about an incident in CT that angered you, you should communicate it. If this is about basically being rejected in your ovetures to reestablish normal relations there are better ways and there were and are still folks in the community willing to discuss this and what they feel you'd have to do to rejoin the fray before and after these two most recent incidents, though now you'd have all the farther to walk and it wouldn't be an easy road. But if this is simply about your previous promise that anything you chopped before will stay chopped I'd say that you may have a leg to stand on in CT, but as an ex-MA climber myself you have no business chopping outside your local domain and you are digging the hole deeper for yourself.
*!* WAKE UP *!* STOP *!* COMMUNICATE *!*
I'm available 24/7 and Clint, Marco, Chad, and Chuck all have my number and email or you can Private Mail me here. Or make someone's day and call the Editor of Climbing or Rock & Ice and tell them you're willing to do an interview - but do something positive, contact someone...
===============================================
Note to Ken - or anyone currently communicating with Ken pass this on...
===============================================
|
|
|
|
|
cfmwh
May 26, 2005, 8:49 PM
Post #103 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2005
Posts: 107
|
In reply to: Oh, and would you people west of 74 deg. longitude STFU, especially if you're from AK. |
|
|
|
|
dingus
May 26, 2005, 9:06 PM
Post #104 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: And yes, I am within a 2 hour drive, I have very definate opinions of these actions, and I will not back down this time. You don't have to believe me, but I can tell you honestly that Ken Nichols is indeed behind all of the recent s---. 100%, without a doubt.
Edge
I do happen to respect both you and your opinion. I'm sure you have well founded information leading you to believe Nichols has done these deeds. I would be the first to echo the sentiment that MY opinion of this is irrelevant to the local situation. What I think about SHOULD HAVE NO BEARING on it at all... its not my business.
But I don't see you leading an internet lynch mob of idiots either, hundreds or thousands of miles away who suggest vandalism in the same breath as they ask 'who is this guy anyway?' Morons.
That's what bothers me here. You folks directly affected by this situation are perfectly situated to deal with it. I can even dig the 'reporting' aspect of it. But I thoroughly detest the lynch mob mentality that manifests itself in these threads. I think you'd be man enough to deal with Nichols directly and personally, should the opportunity present itself. I do NOT think that of these buttinski's from BumfucEgypt that spray over the internet about slashing tires and other bullshit. Hot headed kids with keyboards, blathering about they know not what.
Cheers and good luck bro
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
brosufmcnally
May 26, 2005, 9:12 PM
Post #105 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2005
Posts: 8
|
In reply to: My dad and I were walking through the woods once somewhere prolly near bear mountain and we were def. off-trail and enjoying ourselves. My dad was tying a piece of cloth around each tree so we could find our way back and remove them on the way. Well when we went to leave we couldn't find our markers. Some bith woman was hiding and following us and removing them. When we confronted her, she said some s--- like we were ruining the woods or damaging the property. .
She wasnt wrong...you just said you were OFF trail
|
|
|
|
|
cfmwh
May 26, 2005, 9:17 PM
Post #106 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2005
Posts: 107
|
In reply to: Edge I do happen to respect both you and your opinion. I'm sure you have well founded information leading you to believe Nichols has done these deeds. I would be the first to echo the sentiment that MY opinion of this is irrelevant to the local situation. What I think about SHOULD HAVE NO BEARING on it at all... its not my business. But I don't see you leading an internet lynch mob of idiots either, hundreds or thousands of miles away who suggest vandalism in the same breath as they ask 'who is this guy anyway?' Morons. That's what bothers me here. You folks directly affected by this situation are perfectly situated to deal with it. I can even dig the 'reporting' aspect of it. But I thoroughly detest the lynch mob mentality that manifests itself in these threads. I think you'd be man enough to deal with Nichols directly and personally, should the opportunity present itself. I do NOT think that of these buttinski's from BumfucEgypt that spray over the internet about slashing tires and other s---. Hot headed kids with keyboards, blathering about they know not what. Cheers and good luck bro DMT
Dingus,
Well put...wish I could give trophies today. Seems like this problem is just going 'round and 'round.
What's the saying?..."An eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind"...
Oh, and while I'm giving my $.02: :deadhorse:
|
|
|
|
|
gunksgoer
May 26, 2005, 9:20 PM
Post #107 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 1290
|
I just sent letters to R+I and Climbing, in hopes they could adress this issue (and also in hopes theyll print less Vwhatever crap to make room).
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
May 26, 2005, 9:47 PM
Post #108 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
In reply to: In reply to: I'm not trying to "flame", "accuse" or "set you off" and I agree "there is (always) 2 sides to every story". So Dwain, I am very curious, have you ever been a bolt chopper? Wow, so since he's projecting a different view than your own, he's all of a sudden suspect of chopping as well? It seems as though his offering a different opinion is mediating this thread and preventing it form turning into a killing spree. Grow up already. |
|
|
|
|
diabolix
May 26, 2005, 10:01 PM
Post #109 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 25, 2005
Posts: 31
|
In reply to: In reply to: My dad and I were walking through the woods once somewhere prolly near bear mountain and we were def. off-trail and enjoying ourselves. My dad was tying a piece of cloth around each tree so we could find our way back and remove them on the way. Well when we went to leave we couldn't find our markers. Some bith woman was hiding and following us and removing them. When we confronted her, she said some s--- like we were ruining the woods or damaging the property. . She wasnt wrong...you just said you were OFF trail
We were off trail but we weren't hurting anything or anyone. And the trail was barely a beaten path, wasn't on private property and there was no real underbrush to damage. She wasn't a ranger, there was no rules against it, she was just someone overreacting when they thought their opinion mattered. OVER
|
|
|
|
|
diabolix
May 26, 2005, 11:54 PM
Post #111 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 25, 2005
Posts: 31
|
that would be good. I hope she found a place to vent. Or somewhere magical where everyone agreed with her.
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
May 27, 2005, 12:50 AM
Post #112 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
In reply to: that would be good. I hope she found a place to vent. Or somewhere magical where everyone agreed with her.
She was probably just incredulous... like, who in the hell is tying strips of cloth to all these trees? And WHY??? Were you headed into the Black Forest or something?
DMT
|
|
|
|
|
fracture
May 27, 2005, 1:04 AM
Post #113 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2003
Posts: 1814
|
In reply to: Question: Why have I heard nothing of this issue in Texas?? It seems to me that if this was an issue not pertaining to Ken dirrectly, but instead one of bolting trad routes that have always been and in some opions always should be why can't we comprmise? Example: there is a wall here in Austin that is "reserved" as a trad wall. It has anchors at the top but only an idiot would bolt any of this wall for fear of retrobution. isn't there a happy meduim??
The only wall "in austin" that I can possibly figure you may mean is Guide's Wall, and if that's what you are talking about, you obviously don't understand the way the access agreement with CPARD works. The greenbelt has a no-new-bolts policy in certain (already developed) zones, and requires approval from the city and the CTM to place new fixed protection in the other zones.
But even ignoring that, the real reason no one is going to add new bolts to Guide's Wall is not about fear of retribution, it's because a) it's crap, b) most climbers who go there want to toprope the routes anyway, c) the top of the cliff is both easy and convenient to access and there are already bolted TR anchors, and d) there are better easy limestone slab routes at Maggie's/Seismic Wall (which had their hangers stolen by some idiots when they were first put up, btw, but apparently it didn't deter anything).
In reply to: Set asside for a moment Ken's recent actions, from what my friend is telling me Ken has been climbing for 40+ years f---ing s---!!! doesn't that account for anything???
No. :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
ctowles
May 27, 2005, 3:58 AM
Post #114 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2005
Posts: 12
|
hmmm..i love how people from all across the country come on here and start insulting my friends...these friends also happen to be the only people posting to this thread that have a goddamn clue what the situation is at OUR local crag. so please, if you don't actually have anything constructive to say which relates to the problem at hand, save us all trouble of reading your hot air.
The only reason this particular thread was started in the first place was to shut people up for claiming that there was no proof of Ken Nichols chopping here in western mass. I don't think there is any other proof needed to show that indeed ken Nichols has been active in chopping bolts in western mass the last few weeks. Bolts were chopped, and his vehicle was seen and photographed at the scene of the crime. Hes lucky that he managed to get out of there in one piece too, because an angry posse of literally 10 people was at the scene within 45min-1hour of his car being spotted at the blacks parking area. Unfortunately, they arrived at the crag a little too late, and many of the top rope anchors put there for erosion control had been chopped.
Its not the first time this has happened either. I have been a wmass local climber for over 10 yrs. and i have seen my fair share of ken's exploits. Just a little history lesson here, in the mid/early 90's here in wmass, there were a few nice bolted routes scattered about the local crags. most people in the area were cool with it, as it wasn't done to the point of excess. Then along comes ken Nichols to ruin the party... I don't remember exact dates of all this, but in that time frame, ken came in western mass and chopped everything he could find----everything. He chopped Mormon Hollow, He chopped the sunbowl, and he chopped farley. These weren't even places that ken climbed at...they were just crags that had bolts. It didn't matter to him that the locals were cool with it...ken was there to make a statement and assert some kind of BS authority over cliffs that he didn't even climb at. It wasn't about redemption for bolting in ct 10 yrs ago when he first chopped Mormon hollow, and sure as hell isn't now. Ken does this crap because he is a coward who nobody likes. I'd be willing to bet that he is watching this thread right now, feeling content with himself for being an asshole that nobody in the community has a shred of respect for despite an impressive climbing resume. Its fairly obvious that this kind of behavior has nothing to with bolts anymore, its about an old man feeding his ego any way he can...even it means acting like a child to get attention.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the whole bolt the world philosophy either, especially here in western mass where every single cliff can be easily done on top rope with a 50m rope. however, once the bolt has been placed, the damage has already been done. your not doing anyone a favor by hammering and smashing away at the rock to make it unusable for everyone. its like going to a pinic and tossing the entire plate of hamburgers on the ground because you are a vegetarian. The cow is already dead... its not like you are gonna bring the thing back to life by making sure everyone goes hungry. at that point, your just the asshole that is ruining the picnic for everyone.
This BS needs to stop. Ken Nichols was not welcome in western massachusetts 10 years ago, and he sure is not now. That mofo needs to stay in his own state and mind his own goddamn business. Ken, we don't want you here...please leave, and don't come back.
Chris Towles
|
|
|
|
|
static_endurance
May 27, 2005, 5:07 AM
Post #115 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 119
|
In reply to: You're from Canada, so I don't expect you to have the slightest clue who Jack is. But suffice to say that context that is seriously lacking in your remark.
That's true, i don't have the slightest clue who jack is. Though if i have created some form of offence, i apologize. The comment posed just seemed like a sly backhand attack, which with our fun window-smashing mob didn't seem like the right thing throw out at the time. I probably took it over the top, yes. And the "grow up already" was supposed to apply to everyone. Once again, my bad :oops: .
|
|
|
|
|
pheenixx
May 27, 2005, 5:07 AM
Post #116 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 22, 2004
Posts: 478
|
In reply to: ...its like going to a pinic and tossing the entire plate of hamburgers on the ground because you are a vegetarian. The cow is already dead... its not like you are gonna bring the thing back to life by making sure everyone goes hungry. at that point, your just the asshole that is ruining the picnic for everyone......Chris Towles
OMG - xlnt analogy. Thanks Chris for taking time to add more background and answer some posts previously unanswered. It was worth muzzling up and waiting for...
|
|
|
|
|
shear
May 27, 2005, 11:10 AM
Post #117 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 15, 2004
Posts: 350
|
In reply to: hmmm..i love how people from all across the country come on here and start insulting my friends...these friends also happen to be the only people posting to this thread that have a goddamn clue what the situation is at OUR local crag. so please, if you don't actually have anything constructive to say which relates to the problem at hand, save us all trouble of reading your hot air. The only reason this particular thread was started in the first place was to shut people up for claiming that there was no proof of Ken Nichols chopping here in western mass. I don't think there is any other proof needed to show that indeed ken Nichols has been active in chopping bolts in western mass the last few weeks. Bolts were chopped, and his vehicle was seen and photographed at the scene of the crime. Hes lucky that he managed to get out of there in one piece too, because an angry posse of literally 10 people was at the scene within 45min-1hour of his car being spotted at the blacks parking area. Unfortunately, they arrived at the crag a little too late, and many of the top rope anchors put there for erosion control had been chopped. Its not the first time this has happened either. I have been a wmass local climber for over 10 yrs. and i have seen my fair share of ken's exploits. Just a little history lesson here, in the mid/early 90's here in wmass, there were a few nice bolted routes scattered about the local crags. most people in the area were cool with it, as it wasn't done to the point of excess. Then along comes ken Nichols to ruin the party... I don't remember exact dates of all this, but in that time frame, ken came in western mass and chopped everything he could find----everything. He chopped Mormon Hollow, He chopped the sunbowl, and he chopped farley. These weren't even places that ken climbed at...they were just crags that had bolts. It didn't matter to him that the locals were cool with it...ken was there to make a statement and assert some kind of BS authority over cliffs that he didn't even climb at. It wasn't about redemption for bolting in ct 10 yrs ago when he first chopped Mormon hollow, and sure as hell isn't now. Ken does this crap because he is a coward who nobody likes. I'd be willing to bet that he is watching this thread right now, feeling content with himself for being an asshole that nobody in the community has a shred of respect for despite an impressive climbing resume. Its fairly obvious that this kind of behavior has nothing to with bolts anymore, its about an old man feeding his ego any way he can...even it means acting like a child to get attention. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the whole bolt the world philosophy either, especially here in western mass where every single cliff can be easily done on top rope with a 50m rope. however, once the bolt has been placed, the damage has already been done. your not doing anyone a favor by hammering and smashing away at the rock to make it unusable for everyone. its like going to a pinic and tossing the entire plate of hamburgers on the ground because you are a vegetarian. The cow is already dead... its not like you are gonna bring the thing back to life by making sure everyone goes hungry. at that point, your just the asshole that is ruining the picnic for everyone. This BS needs to stop. Ken Nichols was not welcome in western massachusetts 10 years ago, and he sure is not now. That mofo needs to stay in his own state and mind his own goddamn business. Ken, we don't want you here...please leave, and don't come back. Chris Towles
thanks bud...now i just gotta get you up to rumney... :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
May 27, 2005, 1:34 PM
Post #118 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
In reply to: however, once the bolt has been placed, the damage has already been done. your not doing anyone a favor by hammering and smashing away at the rock to make it unusable for everyone. its like going to a pinic and tossing the entire plate of hamburgers on the ground because you are a vegetarian. The cow is already dead... its not like you are gonna bring the thing back to life by making sure everyone goes hungry. at that point, your just the asshole that is ruining the picnic for everyone. Chris Towles
http://www.mundogasol.com/foro/clap.gifhttp://www.mundogasol.com/foro/clap.gifhttp://www.mundogasol.com/foro/clap.gif
|
|
|
|
|
edge
May 27, 2005, 2:02 PM
Post #120 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
|
Dingus,
Well said.
I had responded to this one sentance at a time, but somehow the site fokked it over.
I have neither the energy or the willingness to respond again. Please know that I am not putting together an intraweb possy to hunt down Mr. Nichols.
He is what he is, and he will have to live with that. I kinda feel sorry for the guy.
Loran
|
|
|
|
|
shakylegs
May 27, 2005, 2:45 PM
Post #121 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2001
Posts: 4774
|
Loran, out of mild curiosity, was this animosity ever directed at a certain guide in North Conway who not only chopped bolts at Cathedral (against community wishes), but also pulled some crazy-ass shit at Cannon?
I mean, I'm sure you (and ambler, for that matter) were witness to the bolt wars that occurred there a while back, and which seem to be creeping back now, so I don't understand why some of the more venerable folk didn't do anything about it.
So why the declaration against Ken? From what I hear, he can be placated with a quart of Ben & Jerry's ice cream.
|
|
|
|
|
edge
May 27, 2005, 3:44 PM
Post #122 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
|
In reply to: Loran, out of mild curiosity, was this animosity ever directed at a certain guide in North Conway who not only chopped bolts at Cathedral (against community wishes), but also pulled some crazy-ass s--- at Cannon? I mean, I'm sure you (and ambler, for that matter) were witness to the bolt wars that occurred there a while back, and which seem to be creeping back now, so I don't understand why some of the more venerable folk didn't do anything about it. So why the declaration against Ken? From what I hear, he can be placated with a quart of Ben & Jerry's ice cream.
First of all, I am speaking here for myself. No one else, and I certainly am not taking credit for a whole community. Some people agree with me, some do not. I could give a rat's ass. What follows are my thoughts, and mine alone. I have been climbing here a long freaking time, and as such I ask that my opinions be listened to. If I am in the minority, then I can deal with that; however there is a local ethic that should carry a little weight.
I am not sure who you speak about regarding the bolts (on Thin Air???) and (keg on Moby Grape???) I know who chopped the retro-bolted iron on Thin Air, and I agree with that 100%. If it was indeed the same person who left a beer keg on the Grape, then I dis-agree with that act 100%. Me. My views. Irregardless, here it is; my viewpoint. I will back this up in person, via intraweb, however you want.
I fukking chopped the bolts on "Room With A View" on Cathedral in 1984+/-. I did this with four other local climbers, and we did it the very same day they were placed. Peter Beal, a guy who I treasured as a friend, placed them and Tom Nonis, who I also admired, seconded. There were 5 bolts and 4 choppers, so we each rapped down and removed one bolt; the last guy removed two, and in the process we broke my cat's paw. Everyone pitched in to help me afford a replacement. We did not fill in the holes, but we also didn't leave a filthy mess of mangled hardware. We made our statement, and left it at that.
The next day, I cruised into the Cathedral parking lot and overheard Tom telling someone that the new route was the safest 5.11 on the crag; I jumped into the conversation and said, "Not anymore!!" He knew it would be controversial, and asked me, "Someone chopped it??" It was inevitable.
I said, "Yes, me and..." I told him the other guy's names as well. Tom and Pete were furious, but then again, they knew this would happen. One of my cohorts ended up trying to climb the route and place bolts on the lead, and almost died doing so. Still, we always frowned on rapp bolts, and all of this took place well before the sport climbing craze of the late 80's/early 90's.
Jeebus, I used to walk into Rumney at that time and lament the lack of protection. Ted hammond, Tom Armstrong, Art Mooney; all were/are friends of mine. Without bolts, Rumney would be a worthless hillside with some mildly amusing ice.
North Conway is a weird beast; routes like Ventilator stand, while the Arete gets chopped. Basically, nowadays, if it lives up to 1950 standards pro-wise, that is good. Tim Kemple and others have returned to several of the cliffs narstier lines and led them in impeccable style; I applaud them. I also applaud the person who took the unneccesary bolts off of Thin Air; I can now climb it in the same manner as I did as a 15 year old gumby. Thank You!!!
By the same token, those of you chopping bolts that are meant to preserve trees will one day regret your actions. Too soon, I am afraid.
So what does all of this have to do with the Ken Nichols dilemma? Ken acts from the gut, like I acted in the early 80's. The difference is that I have learned in the process, and Ken still clings to antiquated ideals. I will continue to act as I see fit, but please know that I will always acknowledge my handiwork. ALWAYS!!!!
No one wants any route bolted, but sometimes these things help the greater climbing community, and some do not. A jumbled piece of smashed metal does not convey any sense of justice; it just makes us all look bad.
|
|
|
|
|
edge
May 27, 2005, 3:47 PM
Post #123 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Posts: 9120
|
In reply to: Loran, out of mild curiosity, was this animosity ever directed at a certain guide in North Conway who not only chopped bolts at Cathedral (against community wishes), but also pulled some crazy-ass s--- at Cannon? I mean, I'm sure you (and ambler, for that matter) were witness to the bolt wars that occurred there a while back, and which seem to be creeping back now, so I don't understand why some of the more venerable folk didn't do anything about it. So why the declaration against Ken? From what I hear, he can be placated with a quart of Ben & Jerry's ice cream.
First of all, I am speaking here for myself. No one else, and I certainly am not taking credit for a whole community. Some people agree with me, some do not. I could give a rat's ass. What follows are my thoughts, and mine alone. I have been climbing here a long freaking time, and as such I ask that my opinions be listened to. If I am in the minority, then I can deal with that; however there is a local ethic that should carry a little weight.
I am not sure who you speak about regarding the bolts (on Thin Air???) and (keg on Moby Grape???) I know who chopped the retro-bolted iron on Thin Air, and I agree with that 100%. If it was indeed the same person who left a beer keg on the Grape, then I dis-agree with that act 100%. Me. My views. Irregardless, here it is; my viewpoint. I will back this up in person, via intraweb, however you want.
I fukking chopped the bolts on "Room With A View" on Cathedral in 1984+/-. I did this with four other local climbers, and we did it the very same day they were placed. Peter Beal, a guy who I treasured as a friend, placed them and Tom Nonis, who I also admired, seconded. There were 5 bolts and 4 choppers, so we each rapped down and removed one bolt; the last guy removed two, and in the process we broke my cat's paw. Everyone pitched in to help me afford a replacement. We did not fill in the holes, but we also didn't leave a filthy mess of mangled hardware. We made our statement, and left it at that.
The next day, I cruised into the Cathedral parking lot and overheard Tom telling someone that the new route was the safest 5.11 on the crag; I jumped into the conversation and said, "Not anymore!!" He knew it would be controversial, and asked me, "Someone chopped it??" It was inevitable.
I said, "Yes, me and..." I told him the other guy's names as well. Tom and Pete were furious, but then again, they knew this would happen. One of my cohorts ended up trying to climb the route and place bolts on the lead, and almost died doing so. Still, we always frowned on rapp bolts, and all of this took place well before the sport climbing craze of the late 80's/early 90's.
Jeebus, I used to walk into Rumney at that time and lament the lack of protection. Ted hammond, Tom Armstrong, Art Mooney; all were/are friends of mine. Without bolts, Rumney would be a worthless hillside with some mildly amusing ice.
North Conway is a weird beast; routes like Ventilator stand, while the Arete gets chopped. Basically, nowadays, if it lives up to 1950 standards pro-wise, that is good. Tim Kemple and others have returned to several of the cliffs narstier lines and led them in impeccable style; I applaud them. I also applaud the person who took the unneccesary bolts off of Thin Air; I can now climb it in the same manner as I did as a 15 year old gumby. Thank You!!!
By the same token, those of you chopping bolts that are meant to preserve trees will one day regret your actions. Too soon, I am afraid.
So what does all of this have to do with the Ken Nichols dilemma? Ken acts from the gut, like I acted in the early 80's. The difference is that I have learned in the process, and Ken still clings to antiquated ideals. I will continue to act as I see fit, but please know that I will always acknowledge my handiwork. ALWAYS!!!!
No one wants any route bolted, but sometimes these things help the greater climbing community, and some do not. A jumbled piece of smashed metal does not convey any sense of justice; it just makes us all look bad.
|
|
|
|
|
taualum23
May 27, 2005, 3:52 PM
Post #124 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 2370
|
A post so nice, I was glad to read twice!
|
|
|
|
|
shakylegs
May 27, 2005, 4:05 PM
Post #125 of 154
(25588 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2001
Posts: 4774
|
To quote Adrian Belew: I repeat myself when I'm distressed. I repeat myself when I'm distressed.
Thin Air bolts being chopped, yup, agreed with the act also. They were completely unnecessary. However, it had been agreed that they would stay. The bolter at least had the sack to own up to it. And yeah, he was boasting to my friend and I, after meeting him only 5 minutes earlier, about jamming the keg in the crack. And also about lighting off fireworks on a Whitney-Gilman ledge before that. Still, a nice enough fellow, though somewhat exuberant. And funny how an out-of-stater could get away with it.
But, since nothing came of that, some other kid decided that it was okay to pull some pitons off other climbs, i.e. Funhouse. A bunch of posturing, nothing occurs. Seems the precedent has been set.
How this all pertains to Ken Nichols, I have no idea, I may just be talking outta my lily-white ass.
But what you seem to be saying is that you'll only get angry/physical with someone who chops bolts on routes on which you don't agree. That's what I don't understand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
