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ja1484
Jun 6, 2007, 2:37 AM
Post #76 of 126
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The radius? You're serious?
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carabiner96
Jun 6, 2007, 3:05 AM
Post #77 of 126
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ja1484 wrote: The radius? You're serious?
Jeez, take bitch pills often? You know what he meant.
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angry
Jun 6, 2007, 3:16 AM
Post #78 of 126
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carabiner96 wrote: ja1484 wrote: The radius? You're serious? Jeez, take bitch pills often? You know what he meant.
Just in case you're unclear what he meant. The image on the left is round, the image on the right is the madrock. And madrock is FAR from the only company that doesn't have a perfectly round rope bearing surface.
I'd whip on them with skinny or fat ropes all day, without hesitation.
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rope bearing surface.bmp
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moose_droppings
Jun 6, 2007, 3:30 AM
Post #79 of 126
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moose_droppings wrote: This might not be a big deal, but I'll give my rope a less sharp bend when possible.
I won't miss any sleep over it or anything, but thanks.
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ja1484
Jun 6, 2007, 4:10 AM
Post #80 of 126
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angry wrote: carabiner96 wrote: ja1484 wrote: The radius? You're serious? Jeez, take bitch pills often? You know what he meant. Just in case you're unclear what he meant. The image on the left is round, the image on the right is the madrock. And madrock is FAR from the only company that doesn't have a perfectly round rope bearing surface. I'd whip on them with skinny or fat ropes all day, without hesitation.
No, I was clear on what he meant.
I reiterate: The radius? You're serious?
I'll add: For really? Truly serious? Seriously?
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cdomsch
Jun 6, 2007, 6:19 AM
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I'll admit, despite the animosity that may come my way, one of the first things I noticed was the small radius of the wiregate biner. Other than that, the appearance is outstanding and the gate action seems good for clipping. Will have them on the rock this weekend.
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ckirkwood9
Jun 6, 2007, 4:20 PM
Post #82 of 126
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uploading pic of biners for comparison. That's the red bentgate madrock, a black diamond neutrino and a chrome straightgate madrock. sorry for the low quality pic... took it w/my camera phone.
anyway - i like them.
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krosbakken
Jun 7, 2007, 1:41 AM
Post #83 of 126
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I got mine today and I love the looks and feel of them. I got 5 straight gate for racking, and 5 wire gates for cams and quick draws. Ill edit this post after this monday to tell you how they work, Im going climbing at North Shore. Did I mention they are extremely light.
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jakedatc
Jun 7, 2007, 3:12 PM
Post #84 of 126
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:sigh:... was happy to see my MR box on the porch this morning..
opened it up.. straight gates instead of bent gates.. 
nice and all.. but not what i ordered. i sent a PM to joe. we'll see how this goes.
Edit: Quick email exchange with Joe and the websales people and i'll be able to exchange them no problems. good stuff.
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Jun 7, 2007, 5:35 PM)
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tenesmus
Jun 8, 2007, 3:16 AM
Post #85 of 126
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Thanks to all of your comments and posts on this subject. The pictures and comparisons to other biners have been especially eniightening.
I have a couple of booty'd Heliums I love but in principle won't buy the 50 or so I need for 10 bucks a pop. I can't fit my fatty fingers into the Neutrino when I'm clipping and want to know if the Madrocks clip easier for mr sausage hands.
What about the regular gate biners? Are they keylock like Petzl Spirits?
What about clipping the Trango Superfly's? Are they similar to the neutrino too or a little better?
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krosbakken
Jun 8, 2007, 3:42 AM
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Yes the regular gate biners are keylock.
And sry I couldn't answer any of your other questions.
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jakedatc
Jun 11, 2007, 5:18 AM
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I used my couple of straight wire gates this weekend and had no real issues with them.. i will be getting some skinny draws to use for them since the nylon ones are too thick for the base of the biner to sit straight.. not horribly messed up and still perfectly usable. just not quite right.
gate action was nice and snappy.. not squeeking or sloppy movement on mine.
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angry
Jun 11, 2007, 5:34 AM
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I used mine a few times in the last few days. I've got all the straight wire gates.
Friday, I used many of these in combination with some various locking biners and lots of other equipment to hang a sign above a job site for a construction company. I was free hanging for a couple hours. No weird issues like bobbling them in my hand or thinking they were clipped and dropping them.
Saturday, slab climbing. On totally tenuous dicey slab, I had no issue clipping.
Sunday, squeeze chimney and offwidth roofs. Nothing came unclipped in the chimney. I was able to quickly and easily grab a piece, place it, and clip it all while hanging upside down from a foot.
In all, I like them. It's not the good gear you notice, it's the bad. On, my car I don't notice if it has air in the tires, only if they are flat. Same thing here, no worries = no words. If they were hard to clip, or awkward, or sucked for any myriad of reasons, I'd whine.
I did notice that they have a shroud around the gate unlike the Trango Superfly. It's a little thing, but that puts MadRock over the top on the best budget biner contest (MadRock also wins in price and finish, Trango wins in weight, by about a gram).
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docjacen
Jun 11, 2007, 8:58 AM
Post #89 of 126
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i ordered 2 bent wires and 2 straight solids. got the 2 bent wires, but ended up with straight wires instead of streight solids Called customer service, was sent immediatly to voice mail, haven't recieved a call back yet (I called on Thrusday morning). Guess I'll PM Joe as wwll.
Took all 4 of them out this weekend, though, and they are great IMO. Better action than the BD neutrino and lighter than my Omega JCs. Not as light as the Omega Doval, but easier to handle. Overall very nice- I will be buying more if I hear back about the messed up order.
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crackers
Jun 11, 2007, 3:07 PM
Post #90 of 126
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moose_droppings wrote: 1st, I'd prefer a little bit stiffer gate, and the side to side slop is more than any other wire gate I own, a little concerning. Maybe if they had a stiffer action this might correct itself, don't know. 2nd, the rope bearing radius is not a true radius. Since it is a little flatter in the middle, this leaves a sharper radius on the outside edges which won't be quite as easy on your rope. 3rd, they are sharp looking and light. I've always liked the I-beam over the barrel shape for grabbing and orienting, especially with gloves on. I paired them up opposite a superfly on my draws and used them today for the rope end. In the future they will be delegated to the pro end because of the radius. This might not be a big deal, but I'll give my rope a less sharp bend when possible.
I echo all of these. I will not be placing them on the rope on trad climbs where the biners may well get up to tricks way below me. I would rather have a distinct radius along the spine.
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angry
Jun 11, 2007, 3:36 PM
Post #91 of 126
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A couple things
1. Every lightweight biner, EVERY SINGLE ONE, will flip, get sideways, and generally disconcert you occasionally when on a cam sling or tripled runner. It's a function of the weight, not the biner. I've seen it on Heliums, Superflys, Nuetrino's, even Madrock. If you as the climber have chosen the route of light carabiners, you are the person responsible for keeping them straight. It's not a big deal, just be a little mindful.
2. I want to live up to my screen name when I read the comments about the rope radius or square end. This is a perfect example of people being overly nit-picky on one brand. Go to the climbing shop, grab any 20 biners brand new and look at the rope bearing surface. Are you shocked that most have a slightly squared rope bearing surface. A couple times lowering off and they all look rounded and polished.
3. Rope Radius? Take out your calipers and measure the actual rope bearing surface on your new Madrock biners. Now measure that same surface on all your other biners. Madrock biner's rope radius lies firmly in the middle of the range of radiuses, what a scam. I'm sure with a file and some elbow grease you could sharpen them up as much as you have already imagined they are. Me? I'll stick to real numbers.
As I've stated in other threads, I don't work for Madrock. I've never received a single free item from them. The only good deals I've gotten are from promotions available to all of us with good timing. Nothing more. I'm quite happy to carry my MR haulbag to the rock, empty it out to grab my MR harness, rack up with some MR biners, and put some EVOLVE shoes on my feet (sorry Joe, couldn't resist).
The reason I defend them is simple. MadRock is one of maybe two or three companies that is actually trying to get a decent product on the market at a decent price. While most other companies make inconsequential improvements to jack up prices, or just jack up prices on the same old stuff, MadRock is actually trying to provide us (working class) climbers a good product at a good price.
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crackers
Jun 11, 2007, 4:03 PM
Post #92 of 126
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angry wrote: 1. Every lightweight biner, EVERY SINGLE ONE, ...It's not a big deal, just be a little mindful.
Agreed.
angry wrote: 2. I want to live up to my screen name when I read the comments about the rope radius or square end. This is a perfect example of ... Are you shocked that most have a slightly squared rope bearing surface. A couple times lowering off and they all look rounded and polished.
Negative. Sorry, but this is just not true. I chose my biners because of the radius. While I certainly have scored ropes for prices you wouldn't believe, I want them to last as long as possible, and carabiner radius certainly is one of the variables. i don't care whether they look "rounded and polished" I want them to have an acceptable radius, as these biners have at the ends.
angry wrote: 3. Rope Radius? Take out your calipers and measure the actual rope bearing surface on your new Madrock biners. Now measure that same surface on all your other biners. Madrock biner's rope radius lies firmly in the middle of the range of radiuses, what a scam.
Almost done. By eyeball, the radius of the middle of the I-beam is about 1/5 of that of conventional biners and about 1/4 of that of my DMM prowires. I'll go next door when I have the chance and measure the difference with the calipers.
angry wrote: As I've stated in other threads, I don't work for Madrock. I've never received a single free item from them.
I've gotten some free stuff from them.
I think they are extremely light, that the action is good, but I won't be putting them on the rope end on trad routes. At the MSRP, they're an incredible deal.
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angry
Jun 11, 2007, 4:25 PM
Post #93 of 126
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From your description, it looks like you and I are comparing two separate things.
By rope bearing surface, I meant the bottom of the basket, you know, where the rope goes. From your post, I gather that you want the entire inside of the biner to have that, not just where the rope hits. Aside from biner rappels and the odd crossloaded fall, I can't imagine why.
By radius, I meant the top rounded area at the bottom of the basket. I used the word radius wrong, that's my mistake. I meant the top half circumference or rope bearing circumference at the basket. Radius was not just a bad choice of words, but the incorrect choice too. Measured from the start of the curve, up over the top, and down to the end of the curve. Look at the pic I posted a few posts above this, it's clear in that pic.
I think by radius you meant the total thickness of the biner. That's dramatically thinner than most, that's how they got so light. My rope won't be running over the I-beam though, so I'm not sweating it.
Hope that clears things up.
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skidawg
Jun 11, 2007, 4:28 PM
Post #94 of 126
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I too got an incorrect shipment...I bet it's easy to do when you have to go through hundreds of them in a day and they all have such similar names...made a few contacts though, and a week later haven't heard anything yet...don't want to test them out if I'm going to have to return them...sigh...still support the company and am happy about the jimdavis discount though...will keep updating.
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crackers
Jun 11, 2007, 4:29 PM
Post #95 of 126
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angry wrote: ... Aside from biner rappels and the odd crossloaded fall, I can't imagine why. ...
As I said in my original post that admittedly was not clear enough, exactly, I'm worried about them in odd crossloaded falls. As we both wrote, it's something to be mindful of, not something to be paranoid of...
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ckirkwood9
Jun 11, 2007, 4:43 PM
Post #96 of 126
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Posts: 262
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HMMPH... looks like madrock has some competition:
http://www.climbaxe.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=24
$10 for a wiregate draw. not bad 'tall! looks like it COULD have come from the same manufacturer.
heyyyyyy wait a sec... this site is selling madrock biners as well... interesting.
http://www.climbaxe.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=5
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moose_droppings
Jun 11, 2007, 4:59 PM
Post #97 of 126
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angry wrote: Go to the climbing shop, grab any 20 biners brand new and look at the rope bearing surface. Are you shocked that most have a slightly squared rope bearing surface. A couple times lowering off and they all look rounded and polished.
I'd have to disagree with that. All of the other 5 types of biners on my rack have a more consistant round radius to them in the rope bearing area. Take a molding with a piece of small wire and look at the cross section.
In reply to: Rope Radius? Take out your calipers and measure the actual rope bearing surface on your new Madrock biners.
I think you've already realized that calipers will only give you the width of the biner, not the consistancy of the radius.
If I was being nit-picky in my 1st post, it was because Joe wanted honest input of there new products. Also stated in my 1st post was the fact that it probably wasn't a big deal.
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tenesmus
Jun 12, 2007, 12:50 AM
Post #98 of 126
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Thanks again for all the feedback guys. I just bought a crapload of these biners and draws. And a little haulbag.
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boku
Jun 18, 2007, 5:33 PM
Post #99 of 126
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I pull-tested one of the Mad Rock ultralight wire gates this weekend using my low-tech hydraulic dynamometer.
I pull-tested the unit in gate-closed condition to 25.6kN, the current limit of my test rig. The carabiner yielded slightly so that the gate was a bit sticky, but otherwise showed no distress. I've observed similar yielding in tests of other carabiners, so I'm not worried about it.
I next pull-tested that same unit in gate-open condition. It broke at 10.25kN, a comfortable 128% of its 8kN gate-open rating.
Overall, I like these, and I'll probably buy more of them.
Edit Add: Here's what it looks and sounds like when a carabiner breaks.
Bob "BoKu" K.
(This post was edited by boku on Jun 18, 2007, 7:30 PM)
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jakedatc
Jun 18, 2007, 6:13 PM
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I used my straight gate wires the past 2 times up at rumney and they clipped nice.. they are certainly light and i had no trouble with gate sticking, squeeking or side to side slop.. so i'm happy with those.. I'll be taking my bent gate wires out this weekend and i expect similar results.
only criticism so far is that they don't fit that well on nylon draws but you can get them to sit straight and the nylon will mold around it. Just not ideal.. better suited for spectra dogbones
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