[image]http://www.duncancumming.co.uk/photos/lucky.jpg[/image]

Is sports radio SO much against hockey that they would rather debate ad nausium about weather or not it is right that that Pats are running the score up on everyone for like 4 days straight?? wtf man.. get the fuck over it and move on.

the other day was "ARE the pats running the score up" answer seems to be yes...

yesterday.. "so the pats ARE running the score up.. is this good or bad"

today " so the pats are running the score up.. some say good some say bad... but WHY are they doing it"

i love guys who call in with the same opinion as everyone else in the past 5 hours but go "i just wanna toss in my idea and see what you think" STFU you're not original

36- 21 Pats sunday

Eff that noise. The team is going to need to play all four quarters if they're gonna hang with Indy this week. That's the one and only reason he has played them so long in these blowouts, because if they came into the Indy game with the key guys only having played 2 quarters each week, they'd be in for an ass-whooping.

This game should be good, though.

Now, what will be interesting is if on Sunday Peyton comes out slinging and Brady lays and egg, and the Colts are up 28 going int the half, will all those same people be saying that Peyton and the rest of the first team should sit the second half? Doubt it

Who is saying they should sit Brady in the Colts game? In fact, it has more to do with what plays are being called than with what players are in the game. I don't care if you have your third string quarterback in, if you are still calling pass plays against the fuggin Dolphins when you're up 40+ points, then you're going to draw some criticism.

Who is saying they should sit Brady in the Colts game? In fact, it has more to do with what plays are being called than with what players are in the game. I don't care if you have your third string quarterback in, if you are still calling pass plays against the fuggin Dolphins when you're up 40+ points, then you're going to draw some criticism.

Oh absolutely. But on the flip side, and you can call it spin if you want, but Patriots fans remember a few years ago a guy named Mo Lewis damn near actually killed our starting quarterback. Our backup went in having barely played a single meaningful NFL down. Now, we got VERY lucky in who that backup was, old Mo actually did us a favor. But who's backing up Trent green, who'd step in for Farve, who's Romo's backup?

Personally, I'd rather my coach take that mop up time and let the backup run the actual playbook instead of weak handoffs and kneel downs. As we know first hand, and many other teams do too, you might need him to soon. Better to get him/them that time in a blowout instead of a tight game when your playoff hopes might be on the line.

Now, like you said, that will piss some people off, no doubt. But that is precisely what the 65,000 Pats season ticket holders and the rest of the Pats fans expect from their head coach.

I seem to recall the last Colts game of the season from two years ago (I think). If I recall, Manning was one touchdown away from breaking Marino's single season record. Colts were up by alot within the 10 yard line with less than a minute on the clock. A tense moment... Manning gets the snap... and takes a knee.

Theres professional athletes and then there's professionalism.

I agree with wideguy on this one. Running up the score? Who gives a shit, it's the pros!!!

That said, I dont' think it's appropriate to do at any other level. But come on, these guys are pro athletes. And the fans pay a lot of money. Just because the game is decided say 4 minutes in to the second half doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see more exciting football.

If you dont' want a team passing on you all game, stop them and make a tackle.

Sure, maybe going for a 2 point conversion when you're up 30 is a little much, but they still have to run plays. If you can't stop them that's your own damn fault.

How noble. How romantic. How false.

Manning broke Marino's record in 2004 against San Diego with a 4th quarter come-from-behind touchdown drive to tie the game with a minute left to send the game to OT. Indy won with a field goal on the first drive in OT.

Nice bedtime story though.

Patriots at Colts on Nov. 4 is shaping up to be one of the most attractive and exciting NFL regular-season games ever staged. The pairing is fabulous; the teams are the league's best; and there is a chance both will take the field undefeated. Plus, Patriots at Colts has a powerful, compelling narrative. Namely -- Good vs. Evil.

The fact that I don't even need to tell you which team represents Good and which stands for Evil says a lot about how low New England has sunk. You knew instantly which was which, didn't you?

Argument for the Indianapolis Colts as paladins who carry the banner of that which is beneficent: Sportsmanship, honesty, modesty, devotion to community, embrace of traditional small-town life, belief in higher power, even love of laughter. The Colts are the defending champions, so they obviously play well on the field. Yet after winning the Super Bowl, they have remained humble and appealing. Through prior years of postseason frustration, they never complained or pointed the finger outside their team. Their players are active in community affairs and don't carp about being assigned to a nonglamorous Farm Belt city with an antiquated stadium. Their coach, Tony Dungy, smiles in public and answers honestly whatever he is asked: He never yells at players or grimaces at bad plays and, when defeated, doesn't act as though it's the end of the world. Although religious, Dungy said on the night he won the Super Bowl that God doesn't care about football games, which shows perspective. The team's star, Peyton Manning, stands for love of family, constantly appearing in public with his brothers, father and mother. Manning is happily married and a major donor to a children's hospital. Manning spends a lot of time at children's camps and events, and he constantly makes fun of himself. Ladies and gentlemen, representing Good, the Indianapolis Colts.

Argument for the New England Patriots as scoundrels in the service of that which is baleful: Dishonesty, cheating, arrogance, hubris, endless complaining even in success. The Patriots have three Super Bowl rings, but that jewelry is tarnished by their cheating scandal. They run up the score to humiliate opponents -- more on that below -- thus mocking sportsmanship. Their coach snaps and snarls in public, seeming to feel contempt for the American public that has brought him wealth and celebrity. Victory seems to give Bill Belichick no joy, and defeat throws him into fury. Belichick and the rest of the top of the Patriots' organization continue to refuse to answer questions about what was in the cheating tapes -- and generally, you refuse to answer questions if you have something to hide. The team has three Super Bowl triumphs, yet its players regularly whine about not being revered enough. The team's star, Tom Brady, is a smirking celebrity-chaser who dates actresses and supermodels but whose public charity appearances are infrequent. That constant smirk on Brady's face reminds one of Dick Cheney; people who smirk are fairly broadcasting the message, "I'm hiding something." The Patriots seem especially creepy at this point because we still don't know whether they have told the full truth about the cheating scandal -- or even whether they really have stopped cheating. They say they have, but their word is not exactly gold at this juncture. Ladies and gentlemen, representing Evil, the New England Patriots.

In the Good vs. Evil narrative of the Colts and Pats, running up the score is a telling factor: It reveals a team's sportsmanship or lack of same, and whether a team shows sportsmanship in public might offer insights into its character in private. New England is scoring so many points the Patriots offense looks like cherries and oranges spinning on a slot machine. The Flying Elvii stand plus-159 in net points, by far the best scoring margin in the NFL. This is supposed to be impressive. But I think it's creepy, and New England's creepy on-field behavior is only underscoring the seediness of the Beli-Cheat scandal.

On Sunday, the Patriots led the winless Dolphins 42-7 late in the third quarter, yet Tom Brady was still behind center. And he wasn't just handing off the ball to grind the clock, either. Rather, he was back in the shotgun, still throwing to run up the score. Here is a summary of the Patriots' possession with a 42-7 lead late in the third and Brady, Randy Moss and the rest of their offensive starters on the field: Pass, run, pass, run, pass, pass. When backup quarterback Matt Cassel entered the game in the fourth quarter, with the Patriots leading 42-14 -- a margin larger than the greatest fourth-quarter comeback in NFL history (see below) -- did he hand off the ball to grind the clock? Here were Patriots' coaches first three calls: Run, pass, pass. Cassel's second pass was intercepted and returned for a touchdown, and Brady re-entered the game. Did he grind down the clock? Pass, pass, run, run, pass. The final score was 49-28.

The week before, New England led Dallas 42-27 and had second-and-goal on the Cowboys' 6-yard line with 1:43 remaining and Dallas out of timeouts. Three kneel-downs would have ended the game. But Belichick kept calling plays, frantic to run up the score -- including calling a play with 23 seconds remaining from the Dallas 1-yard line, resulting in a touchdown that made the final New England 48, Dallas 27. The Patriots then kicked off, and Dallas got the ball with 13 seconds remaining. Cowboys coach Wade Phillips showed the dignity Belichick lacked and ordered a kneel-down. Beyond defeating division-leading Dallas, New England has beaten six teams with a combined record of 11-27. In New England's six games against nonwinning teams, Belichick kept the starters in long after the outcome was decided, trying to run up the score. This doesn't just demonstrate Belichick has no class (although it certainly demonstrates that). It's worse -- this suggests something vindictive.

Yes, you can find games the Colts have won by a big margin in recent years, and yes, Manning was on the field through the fourth quarter at Jacksonville last night. But in that quarter, the Colts mainly ran to grind the clock: If they had wanted to win by more, they likely could have. As for New England's running up the score, supposedly the Patriots are angry about the Beli-Cheat scandal and are scoring points like crazy to express their anger against the world. Wait a moment: What right do the Patriots have to be angry? They, after all, are the ones who admitted to systematic cheating. Other people didn't impose that situation on them -- they cheated of their own free accord, imposing the tainting of their accomplishments on themselves. The Patriots were not wronged; they wronged others. Yet they're mad about being caught, and they seem to want to take out their bad feelings about themselves by embarrassing second-echelon teams. That bespeaks lack of character. That's Dark Side. That's Evil.

Suppose New England's version of events is true -- that Belichick is a fine person who made an honest mistake about rules that seemed clearly written to everyone else but somehow were confusing to him and that he regrets his honest mistake. If this were so, wouldn't Belichick be attempting to convince the world he is a good guy by showing sportsmanship at every turn? Instead, he is raising his middle finger to the rest of the NFL, to the sporting media, even to the NFL fans who made his wealth and celebrity possible. If he were a misunderstood man who regrets an honest mistake, wouldn't he be candid and open in public because making his life an open book would convince us he's sorry for what he did? Instead, in public, Belichick continues to glare, stonewall and act offended that mere mortals dare to address him. There is not the slightest hint that Belichick is sorry for what he did -- only sorry he got caught. Innocent people falsely accused crave the recovery of their reputation, working hard to convince the world they are good. Creepy people who think they can get away with something act belligerent and show poor sportsmanship, which is what Belichick is doing right now.

Since Belichick took over the Patriots and began the franchise's remarkable run, he and his team have been praised, praised, praised, praised, praised, praised, praised, praised, praised, praised, praised; criticized when it was discovered New England had engaged in what commissioner Roger Goodell himself called "a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid long-standing rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition"; then -- after about a week of criticism -- praised, praised, praised. This is not a sequence of experiences that would leave an honorable person angry at the world. Yet Belichick acts that way, and he appears to be encouraging anger in his players, which is itself unsportsmanlike.

Perhaps you can say in Belichick's defense that the modern American ethos encourages us all to feel sorry for ourselves -- so much so that even someone to whom football has brought wealth, celebrity and Super Bowl rings can tell himself he's a victim. Perhaps you can say in Belichick's defense that claiming victim status is a solid psychological ploy for the New England players -- who are not to blame for their coach's cheating, which they most likely did not know was happening. The New England players still might suffer some long-term harm from the cheating, though: Given the image New England is projecting, would you want Patriots' players endorsing your product?

But if the Patriots are unfairly maligned, why the whole screw-you act they are staging? If the Patriots were unfairly maligned, they'd be trying hard to convince us their hearts are pure, and that distinctly is not what they are doing. Sure, many New England players are awesome performers: Both of Moss' touchdown catches Sunday came when he was double-teamed; the Flying Elvii offensive line was flawless again; Mike Vrabel, waived by Pittsburgh, might be the best linebacker in the NFL. But if the Patriots are so awesome they don't need to cheat, then why were they cheating in Week 1? The whole situation remains creepy. Should New England continue on and win the Super Bowl without a major attitude shift toward nice-guy behavior -- and should the year end without the NFL's ever explaining what New England evidence it destroyed or why -- there could be a huge amount of cynicism about this NFL season. Cynicism doesn't sell a sports product, nor is it what the NFL should be marketing to the young.

That's why the Pats at Colts game Nov. 4 so clearly represents Good vs. Evil. The Colts stand for everything the NFL, and sports enthusiasts, should be proud of. The Colts stand for a positive future for the NFL. The Patriots stand for -- well, wouldn't it be nice if the Patriots would explain to us what they stand for. When Good meets Evil, I know who I'll be rooting for.

I disagree. It's arrogant running up the score. A well coached team would play conservative with that kind of lead, not risk an injury, give second and third stringers snaps, etc. It's arrogant running up a score because it's a statement that these guys are immune.

If I was a defensive coordinator, I'd be sending 11 every down if they were doing that with all my guys targetting Brady's knees, ankles and elbows. Hey, if winning is the only thing that matters, than trying to hurt other players would just be good strategy.

How noble. How romantic. How false.

Manning broke Marino's record in 2004 against San Diego with a 4th quarter come-from-behind touchdown drive to tie the game with a minute left to send the game to OT. Indy won with a field goal on the first drive in OT.

Nice bedtime story though.

I disagree. It's arrogant running up the score. A well coached team would play conservative with that kind of lead, not risk an injury, give second and third stringers snaps, etc. It's arrogant running up a score because it's a statement that these guys are immune.

If I was a defensive coordinator, I'd be sending 11 every down if they were doing that with all my guys targetting Brady's knees, ankles and elbows. Hey, if winning is the only thing that matters, than trying to hurt other players would just be good strategy.

Edit: Quoting EasterEgg in a Patriots discussion is like claiming Bush is a great president because of what Ann Coulter says. Even most of his other writers think he's taken his Patriots hatred to a whole new, irrational level.

Dungy, Belichick are polar opposites
Mark Kriegel
FOXSports.com, Updated 24 hours ago STORY

Given the state of the NFC, Sunday's game between the Colts and the Patriots — aggregate 2007 record, 15-0 — should offer more interest and suspense than the Super Bowl. These franchises have the best and brightest front-office personnel, eventual Hall of Fame quarterbacks in their prime, not to mention Canton-bound receivers. Their defensive schemes were designed by coaches with astounding aptitudes for the hitting side of the game.

But in all other matters — ethos, values, temperament — these coaches seem antithetical. Actually, if you think about it, this is shaping up as a contest between the coaches. The NFL, an institution that commands the media's most obedient attentions, does pre-game hype better than the WWE. You won't need a program to tell the heroes from the villains, the babyface from the heel. Their personas will be inevitably exaggerated, rendered as caricatures. By kickoff time, Tony Dungy versus Bill Belichick will be shorthand for Good versus Evil.
The bookies like Evil by 5-and-a-half. Still, that shouldn't affect your rooting interest. The more you see from Bill Belichick, the more difficult it is to like the guy.


Bill Belichick and Tony Dungy...polar opposites. ( / Getty Images)

He's a great coach, maybe even the greatest. But he's also a cheater. There's no denying that after the commissioner imposed unprecedented sanctions against the Patriots for illegal videotaping in September. The cheating cost New England $250,000 and a first-round pick. Another $500,000 was to come directly from Belichick's pocket.

Even Dungy, dreadfully modest and circumspect in his public pronouncements, felt obliged to comment. "It's a sad day for the NFL," he said.

All coaches look for an edge. But Belichick's pursuit of that edge is relentless, arrogant, secretive, Nixonian. The edge is his white whale. No advantage is ever enough. Last Sunday, at home against the Redskins, the Patriots had fourth down and one on Washington's 7-yard line. The score was 38-0. "Do you kick a field goal and make it 41-0?" Belichick asked later. "Or go for it on fourth down?"

Depends who you are. If you're Belichick, you go for it. And later in the game, on another fourth down with the score 45-0, you go for it again. There's no need for another debate about running up the score. All you need to know is this: Redskins coach Joe Gibbs, long regarded as one of football's gentlemen, brushed Belichick off after the game.

There remain other reasons — apart from Belichick's unreasonably high regard for the melodies of Bon Jovi — to view him with distrust. Consider the case of former Patriots linebacker Ted Johnson, 34, who suffers from depression and a cognitive condition resembling the early onset of Alzheimer's. It all began with a concussion Johnson sustained in a 2002 preseason game. From the New York Times: "He sustained another four days later during a practice after Patriots coach Bill Belichick went against the recommendation of the team's trainer, Johnson said, and submitted him to regular on-field contact."

Belichick, as is his habit, didn't respond to the allegation. But you wonder how to ever give this guy benefit of the doubt. Jets fans will always remember his infamous one-day tenure as "HC of the NYJ." Belichick had signed a contract specifying that he would succeed Bill Parcells as coach. But when that time came, he broke his contract and his word, abandoned the team that gave him a shot, and left for Foxborough. New England got a dynasty. New York got Al Groh.

Perhaps this is ancient history. Then again, hype is just history writ large. And given Belichick's history, it's easy to understand why the bookies gave his opponent the points.

One might recall a Colts-Ravens game three years ago. Peyton Manning was a touchdown pass from breaking Dan Marino's single-season record. Already up by 10, the Colts intercepted a ball that gave them a first down on the Baltimore 4-yard line. Instead of going for the record, though, Manning took a knee, then another. Finally, the clock ran out.

"That's the right way to play," said Manning.

Belichick might beg to differ. Dungy would not. His teams have won the last three meetings with the Patriots, including a spectacular comeback after being down 21-3 in last year's AFC Championship game. Still, the Patriots look like the better team this year. You don't have to be a bookie to see that.

Whatever happens, Dungy will take it in stride. He has survived worse losses. In fact, he has survived the worst loss of all, the suicide of his teenage son in 2005. It's a wonder anyone pulls through something like that. But you can't help but cheer for those who do.

In Dungy's case, he credits his faith. He's devoutly religious, having once considered leaving football to run a prison ministry.

In the end, though, he's a football coach — a great one, but also, a marked departure from the stereotype. "I've always coached the way I wanted to be coached," he once said.

He doesn't yell or embarrass himself or anyone else. His pursuit of an edge is intense, but not consuming. Sports are now plagued with cheaters like never before. Tony Dungy isn't one of them.

So maybe, just this once, tell your bookie you're betting with your heart. Take the good guy and the points.

hey, maybe they should do that.

In which case they'd get burned every single down for a touchdown.

Everyone knows that Bill Belichick loves to cheat and run up the score. However, did you know that he likes to steal as well? Witness the reports of over 20 witnesses in Meriden, CT last week who saw him running out of a Dunkin Donuts, clutching almost three dozen assorted and innocent pastries. He dove into the back of a pickup truck, driven by none other than Tom Brady. I think they hit a kitten and a puppy as they peeled out of the parking lot, and sped away on I-91, where they flipped off a state trooper. Of course, the witnesses just chuckled, "That's just Bill being Bill."