Personally I hate crag animals’ period. If they keep to themselves I don’t mind them, but more often than not they get in the way often and like to sit on my rope. If an animal interferes with my belay and compromises’ the safety of my climber, I am not the least bit afraid to kick it out of the way. I will not have an animal endangering my partner’s life by getting in the way and causing me to short rope my climber because the animal is tangled in my rope. If an animal ever pisses on my rope, may god have mercy on his / her soul. Might I add that I am not the only one that feels this way. Most of the people I know have zero tolerance for animals interfering with their belays or pissing on their $230 ropes. You might want to consider this before bringing an animal to the crag.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Feb 15, 2009, 9:43 AM)
This poll is ridiculous because this isn't a black and white issue. Most people won't say "no, I don't like any crag dogs" or "yes, I like all crag dogs." It's usually dependent upon the individual dog's behavior.
I can also see where caleb is coming from because, even though I love dogs, most dogs I encounter are NOT well trained so I'm usually weary until I get to see how the owner/human interacts with their dog. It really only takes 30 seconds, a minute max, to be able to predict how a dog is going to because based on its human's demeanor.
And, even if a dog is well behaved on the surface, that doesn't necessarily mean it is mentally well balanced. Some dogs are just very very submissive/easy to train/natural "followers" so they listen really well. But if frightened, for example, they will completely lose their composure and "snap," as it were. Then they become unpredictable.
Yeah, people should stop posting dog-related things as it makes me go on rants... especially when it's 2 am and I've been drinking delicious yeast and hops filled water.
I've seen climbers that were not well trained but I never told them to go somewhere else. USNAVY, question for you. If your are belaying and someone walks up to your rope, takes a leak on it and walks away, how are you going to beat their a$$? Let go of the rope? If you are belaying anyone, you have no control of your immediate area. Your point in aggravation is well taken. In my state people go to jail for extended periods of time and meet Bubba all because they were "tough" on dogs. Be tough on the individual owner not the dogs. This will not help you avoid Bubba though. Maybe it's just the people I hang with but I would bet if there were a dog that was running rampant anyone of us could tactfully ask the owner to secure a dog and have it happen with a high probability of success.
At what point in time did anyone say that a crag dog was supposed to be unleashed and not secured to a fixed area? It's great multi-directional anchor building practice.
I'm not a fan of every climber/dog owner bringing their dog to the crag but I'd never vote to ban dogs from the crag. Responsible dog owners do exist though sometimes we think otherwise. The issue of owner responsibility is I think what is in question here. We know how I voted. Now where is the poll no ban USNAVY from the crag? Just kidding man!
Edit to add: Currently not a dog owner.
(This post was edited by Adk on Feb 15, 2009, 12:01 PM)
This poll is ridiculous because this isn't a black and white issue. Most people won't say "no, I don't like any crag dogs" or "yes, I like all crag dogs." It's usually dependent upon the individual dog's behavior.
I can also see where caleb is coming from because, even though I love dogs, most dogs I encounter are NOT well trained so I'm usually weary until I get to see how the owner/human interacts with their dog. It really only takes 30 seconds, a minute max, to be able to predict how a dog is going to because based on its human's demeanor.
And, even if a dog is well behaved on the surface, that doesn't necessarily mean it is mentally well balanced. Some dogs are just very very submissive/easy to train/natural "followers" so they listen really well. But if frightened, for example, they will completely lose their composure and "snap," as it were. Then they become unpredictable.
Yeah, people should stop posting dog-related things as it makes me go on rants... especially when it's 2 am and I've been drinking delicious yeast and hops filled water.
I think it is a black and white issue. Dogs have no business being at the crag.
I think the problem is that people refuse to admit that their dog isn't able to come with them due to behavior issues. I have a dog. She is amazingly well trained. That had almost nothing to do with me- she's a border collie bearded collie mix: all she wants to do is work and please me (well, make me praise her ). At the crag she is either way deep in the woods, roaming and running, laying next to my feet as I belay, sitting at the base looking longingly up the rock as I climb, or trying to find some way to scramble up to where I am. She touches NO food- we leave steaks on our coffee table- inches shorter than she is, and can leave for hours and she will not touch them. She is the most tolerant dog I've ever met- you can pull her ears, poke her, do whatever and she'll just take it.
Because of this I trust her at the crag, skiing with me, around kids, around dogs, etc. That said, I'm not naive or blinded. When looking after friend's dogs I know what they are capable of. I've told friends not to take their dog with us mtn biking b/c they weren't behaved enough. I've dog sat dogs and brought them to the crag but tied them up and let mine wander.
You see this all the time everywhere there are dogs. Complacent dog owners who just shrug their shoulders and say "well, we couldn't train her". Well, tie her the fuck up then. I was bouldering at Pawtuckaway and a dog started going through a dudes bag, grabs his sandwich, and bolts. He stairs in disbelief and this dude is replies, "Oh, thats X's dog- he is a food thief. If he's around you need to watch out!" No, if that were my sandwich I would have grabbed the dog, found the owner, asked for HIS sandwich and told him to tie his fucking dog up.
Its aggravating as a dog owner who is aware of my dogs limitations and won't put her in a situation that will disrupt other people to see other dog owners be cavalier and lack the self-control to tie their dog up or leave them at home. Gives the rest of us a bad name.
This question should not be "Yes" or "No." Like all else, it depends.
If you are:
* willing to secure your dog at all times (leashed, secured to a tree, or to an anchor you build, or whatever,) and
* you do so in a fashion that won't cause undue difficulty for other climbers (i.e., they don't have to walk around where your dog is laying, or the tie-off is short enough that the dog can't wander over to bother anyone,) and
* you're willing to pick up your dog's poop, and
* you are willing to move your dog if a climber wants to do a route next to your dog, and
* you provide the dog water and shade at the crag, and
* you immediately correct your dog if it growls, barks, nips at, lunges for, or otherwise shows any aggression to any person at all, and
* so forth and so forth and so on and so on...
THEN I have no problems with your dog at the crag.
Lets start with wandering dogs. I have a dog always leashed. She isn't dog friendly and another dog in the area. walks up to her. Its over I drop my leash and let her go to town on the other. A great dane does much damage. to a runt dog. Once this happened in front of a park ranger and the other dog got a severe ass whopping. The other owner said maam that dog attacked my dog. The ranger said That dogs on a leash yours is not and to enjoy the vet bill. And I am not at fault the other owner was. She is always leashed. and its a law in Georgia. I hope you dog owners leash your dog when I am coming or your day will be cut short due to Broken bones in your mutt's face nuff said Leash your mutt...OR LEAVE IT HOME as I do because other dog owners cant follow the rules. There dogs are always right. I know my dog personality so I do what I can to keep here safe. She loves people. Is well behaved and stays near me at all times. No running off. Other owners are the Problem control your animal or there will be a Dog fight and your dog will more than likely be on the shitty end of the deal...
In Georgia its a law to leash your dog. If you dont follow the rules. Which I do. I will not punish my dog for your mistake. and I sure as shit am not holding the leash. In the middle of a fight I let them go till its over. So come to Georgia and let if off the leash if you want. Follow the rules here. Or leave it at home.
Lets start with wandering dogs. I have a dog always leashed. She isn't dog friendly and another dog in the area. walks up to her. Its over I drop my leash and let her go to town on the other. A great dane does much damage. to a runt dog. Once this happened in front of a park ranger and the other dog got a severe ass whopping. The other owner said maam that dog attacked my dog. The ranger said That dogs on a leash yours is not and to enjoy the vet bill. And I am not at fault the other owner was. She is always leashed. and its a law in Georgia. I hope you dog owners leash your dog when I am coming or your day will be cut short due to Broken bones in your mutt's face nuff said Leash your mutt...OR LEAVE IT HOME as I do because other dog owners cant follow the rules. There dogs are always right. I know my dog personality so I do what I can to keep here safe. She loves people. Is well behaved and stays near me at all times. No running off. Other owners are the Problem control your animal or there will be a Dog fight and your dog will more than likely be on the shitty end of the deal...
Your title says your from the US, but its really hard to tell by reading your post. Is English a second (third) language to you?
Responsible dog owners will have their dog under control at all times while around other people. Some people don't want your (cute or not) dog running up to them, even in a friendly manner. There's also no telling what your dog will do when its running loose and another dog comes into its area, be it another friendly dog or not, or if its in season or not. Doesn't matter who's dogs at fault when things get ugly, if both were controlled, the situation wouldn't of happened.
Respect other people. If you want your dog to run loose, take it some where appropriate and let it run there.
It would depend on the dog. Are they just being brought along for fun or are they there for work?
I have seen dogs at crags that have packs on so they can help to pack gear, ropes, protection, water, beer, etc. Those dogs imo deserve to be brought along.
Teddy was tired one day. We had been doingtrailwork(building up that area over by Bunny, and were hauling truckloads of rocks from down the road. Back and forth, back and forth....for hours.
Finally, as the ranger went to get in and drive a load, Teddy jumped up in the truck. He was like "Uh uh. You all can walk, I'm catching a ride!"
The majority of my interactions with dogs at crags have been negative. Even well behaved dogs seem to need to be yelled at or occasionally bark both of which set me on edge.
Sorry for those of you with perfect dogs but at this point the moment I see a dog at the crag it puts me in a bad mood.
I will not punish my dog for your mistake. and I sure as shit am not holding the leash. In the middle of a fight I let them go till its over. So come to Georgia and let if off the leash if you want. Follow the rules here. Or leave it at home.
Are you serious? Why the hell would you drop the leash? This makes breaking the fight up marginally more difficult (only marginally b/c dog fights are easy to break up anyway).
If my dog somehow gets out of my control, runs up to your dog, and a fight ensues, you're just going to let it happen?!? Wow, way to go dumbass.
Again here I agree with reno that that is seriously irresponsible. I'd likely break up the fight and then cuss you out.
69 /
36%
If you are belaying anyone, you have no control of your immediate area. 
). At the crag she is either way deep in the woods, roaming and running, laying next to my feet as I belay, sitting at the base looking longingly up the rock as I climb, or trying to find some way to scramble up to where I am. She touches NO food- we leave steaks on our coffee table- inches shorter than she is, and can leave for hours and she will not touch them. She is the most tolerant dog I've ever met- you can pull her ears, poke her, do whatever and she'll just take it. 
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