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Gmburns2000
May 27, 2009, 5:47 PM
Post #26 of 103
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c4c wrote: are you a minority or gay or fundy christian or something? if so we might have a case. find a new gym.
sorry, were you actually responding to me? honestly, I can't tell.
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dingus
May 27, 2009, 6:00 PM
Post #27 of 103
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petsfed wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: While a warning/explination would have been the professional thing to do, you have to remember that a business can choose whom they do business with at will. I'm sure you've seen the signs that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Well, they exercised their right.  And of course those signs are complete bullshit, with no legal standing. Jay Huh? It's a private business. I'm not sure I understand your point. You can't refuse service based on race, religion, gender, etc. This, unfortunately for the business, means that you can litigate the business into giving you a good reason. At the time of the "don't come back" phone call, they should've given a good explanation, followed by a "if you come back, we'll get the police involved" warning. It was the height of unprofessionalism to do otherwise. And this is typed from the desk of a climbing wall. If you have to punish somebody for anything, you have to tell them what they did wrong, otherwise they won't know not to do it again. However, its not worth fighting over. Go somewhere else. If you get blackballed from the new gym over rumors of what you did at your previous gym, you've got a slander/libel case on your hands. It sucks, but the amount of money and time it would take to fight this is probably well outside the resources of the kind of person who had to stop for 3 months due to money issues.
Reading between the lines - did the OP simply fall behind on his monthly payments toward a year-long contract, then showed up and bought a day-pass after letting the contract lapse?
I suspect most any business person would have a problem with that, if that's what happened.
Was there a terms violation of a contract?
D<T
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c4c
May 27, 2009, 6:02 PM
Post #28 of 103
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no sorry to gunnerfrits. Which now that I look at it your user names are remarkably similar looking...
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clews
May 27, 2009, 6:11 PM
Post #30 of 103
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get a fake mustache and a wig and go climbing... they'll never know it's you
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snowey
May 27, 2009, 6:34 PM
Post #32 of 103
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GunnerFrits wrote: When i was done climbing, he approached me and said he spoke to the owner and said that they were uncomfortable with me being there (which is news to me because I was actually friends with the owner before). I left out of anger without asking why i was banned. But later i found out from the managers friend that the reason that i was supposedly banned was because i was either a thief or inappropriate in front of kids. When i found this out, i was shocked at the audacity of the outlandish claims and then i demanded justification for these assertions. I called the manager and his reply to me was "i don't owe you an explanation. Stop being immature, grow up and get over it," and the conversation ended like that, curtly. I then tried calling the owner but he doesn't respond to my messages or ignores my calls.
I probably wouldn't let you back into my gym either. It sounds like you are being a bit of a hot head about the whole situation. PErhaps this is what got you banned in the first place.
I would do the following:
1) wait one month without talking to anyone about it
2) write a calm letter asking for forgiveness and requesting to be re-allowed into the gym. In the letter you can apologize for being a hothead but you were just passionate about it. You will act more calmly in the future.
3) Wait two weeks.
4) Call and ask to speak with the manager.
5) ASK him if you can return to the gym saying you will be on your best behavior.
6) If he says no, don't argue. Say "thank you for your time, I hope that in the future we can find a resolution". If he tries to pick a fight over the phone agree with whatever he is saying and gracefully bow away. Wait two months and then go back to step 1.
If your goal is to be allowed to climb in the gym then you need to feed into this guy's ego at the sake of your own.
(This post was edited by snowey on May 27, 2009, 6:35 PM)
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freeskicolorado
May 27, 2009, 7:28 PM
Post #33 of 103
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You should probably go back there, pay for a day pass, then strip down and start climbing naked while yelling obscenities.
This way, at least you'll deserve the reputation.
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jt512
May 27, 2009, 7:47 PM
Post #34 of 103
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Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: While a warning/explination would have been the professional thing to do, you have to remember that a business can choose whom they do business with at will. I'm sure you've seen the signs that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Well, they exercised their right. And of course those signs are complete bullshit, with no legal standing. Jay Huh? It's a private business. I'm not sure I understand your point.
I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, a private business that offers its services to the public cannot arbitrarily refuse to serve someone without cause. Now, if you smell bad, or something, they can refuse you service, because you have an offensive odor.
Jay
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boku
May 27, 2009, 7:50 PM
Post #35 of 103
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jt512 wrote: ...I'm not a lawyer...
Ah.
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jt512
May 27, 2009, 7:52 PM
Post #36 of 103
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boku wrote: jt512 wrote: ...I'm not a lawyer... Ah.
?
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jt512
May 27, 2009, 8:08 PM
Post #37 of 103
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Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: While a warning/explination would have been the professional thing to do, you have to remember that a business can choose whom they do business with at will. I'm sure you've seen the signs that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Well, they exercised their right. And of course those signs are complete bullshit, with no legal standing. Jay Huh? It's a private business. I'm not sure I understand your point.
See this, for example.
Jay
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desertwanderer81
May 27, 2009, 8:10 PM
Post #38 of 103
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What gym?
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Gmburns2000
May 27, 2009, 8:30 PM
Post #39 of 103
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jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: While a warning/explination would have been the professional thing to do, you have to remember that a business can choose whom they do business with at will. I'm sure you've seen the signs that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Well, they exercised their right. And of course those signs are complete bullshit, with no legal standing. Jay Huh? It's a private business. I'm not sure I understand your point. See this, for example. Jay
That link helps, thanks. But beyond the race, religion, origin items it really only outlines what is generally unacceptable. Right to refuse signs don't really say why they might refuse service, they merely state that they will if necessary.
The point it made about nightclubs and clientele is a good example of how grey this all is. It's certainly not absolute.
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gogounou
May 27, 2009, 9:36 PM
Post #40 of 103
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snowey wrote: GunnerFrits wrote: When i was done climbing, he approached me and said he spoke to the owner and said that they were uncomfortable with me being there (which is news to me because I was actually friends with the owner before). I left out of anger without asking why i was banned. But later i found out from the managers friend that the reason that i was supposedly banned was because i was either a thief or inappropriate in front of kids. When i found this out, i was shocked at the audacity of the outlandish claims and then i demanded justification for these assertions. I called the manager and his reply to me was "i don't owe you an explanation. Stop being immature, grow up and get over it," and the conversation ended like that, curtly. I then tried calling the owner but he doesn't respond to my messages or ignores my calls. I probably wouldn't let you back into my gym either. It sounds like you are being a bit of a hot head about the whole situation. PErhaps this is what got you banned in the first place. I would do the following: 1) wait one month without talking to anyone about it 2) write a calm letter asking for forgiveness and requesting to be re-allowed into the gym. In the letter you can apologize for being a hothead but you were just passionate about it. You will act more calmly in the future. 3) Wait two weeks. 4) Call and ask to speak with the manager. 5) ASK him if you can return to the gym saying you will be on your best behavior. 6) If he says no, don't argue. Say "thank you for your time, I hope that in the future we can find a resolution". If he tries to pick a fight over the phone agree with whatever he is saying and gracefully bow away. Wait two months and then go back to step 1. If your goal is to be allowed to climb in the gym then you need to feed into this guy's ego at the sake of your own.
Huh. That was calm, measured, and intelligent advice.
There's no place for that sort of thing around here.
J
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GunnerFrits
May 27, 2009, 11:01 PM
Post #41 of 103
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Registered: May 27, 2009
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No, i paid monthly, not contract.
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GunnerFrits
May 27, 2009, 11:05 PM
Post #42 of 103
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Registered: May 27, 2009
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snowey wrote: GunnerFrits wrote: When i was done climbing, he approached me and said he spoke to the owner and said that they were uncomfortable with me being there (which is news to me because I was actually friends with the owner before). I left out of anger without asking why i was banned. But later i found out from the managers friend that the reason that i was supposedly banned was because i was either a thief or inappropriate in front of kids. When i found this out, i was shocked at the audacity of the outlandish claims and then i demanded justification for these assertions. I called the manager and his reply to me was "i don't owe you an explanation. Stop being immature, grow up and get over it," and the conversation ended like that, curtly. I then tried calling the owner but he doesn't respond to my messages or ignores my calls. I probably wouldn't let you back into my gym either. It sounds like you are being a bit of a hot head about the whole situation. PErhaps this is what got you banned in the first place. I would do the following: 1) wait one month without talking to anyone about it 2) write a calm letter asking for forgiveness and requesting to be re-allowed into the gym. In the letter you can apologize for being a hothead but you were just passionate about it. You will act more calmly in the future. 3) Wait two weeks. 4) Call and ask to speak with the manager. 5) ASK him if you can return to the gym saying you will be on your best behavior. 6) If he says no, don't argue. Say "thank you for your time, I hope that in the future we can find a resolution". If he tries to pick a fight over the phone agree with whatever he is saying and gracefully bow away. Wait two months and then go back to step 1. If your goal is to be allowed to climb in the gym then you need to feed into this guy's ego at the sake of your own.
Let me clarify. When I was told not to return I was angry internally. The manager told me that I could stay and finish out my session but I had no desire to stay at that point. I didn't talk back to the manager, I wasn't disrespectful, I just gathered my belongings and with out any drama left. Was I angry? Yes, But that does not mean i was in any ways hot headed when I left.
Later when I found out the erroneous slanderous reasons for why I was asked not to return I immediately called the manager and asked to meet up with him to discuss the situation in person. Once again I wasn't aggressive or in any way disrespectful. It wasn't until he called me back an hour later and told me that he didn't owe me any explanation and that i just needed to be mature, grow up, and get over it. Even then I did not show any sign of anger, and I was not disrespectful (even though he was).
I made sure not to talk trash about the situation to other members of the gym. About a month later I went to a gym that was three hours away and who happened to be there... that very manager. We climbed in the same gym without any issues, we hung out with the same friends afterwards at a local bar. By no means were we friendly but we kept it platonic and there was no tension. I waited a week or so after this incident before trying to contact the owner who was a mutual friend of the manger and myself. I figured because I hadn't talked any trash, kept my cool, never disrespectful, and the manager and I were able to enjoy that same gym with out tension that It would be a good time to approach them. But I haven't gotten any responses from the owner. The manager refuses to speak to me, and all the while I have kept my cool while they have shamefully refused me service for no reason or explanation.
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petsfed
May 27, 2009, 11:36 PM
Post #43 of 103
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GunnerFrits wrote: By no means were we friendly but we kept it platonic and there was no tension.
This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
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landongw
May 27, 2009, 11:42 PM
Post #44 of 103
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Maybe if you had kept it platonic the whole time this wouldn't be an issue, huh? Dipping your pen in the company ink is always a bad idea. 
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rock_ranger
May 28, 2009, 12:16 AM
Post #46 of 103
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Posts: 189
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GunnerFrits wrote: I then tried calling the owner but he doesn't respond to my messages or ignores my calls.In reply to: he doesn't like you... 
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Toast_in_the_Machine
May 28, 2009, 11:26 AM
Post #47 of 103
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jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: While a warning/explination would have been the professional thing to do, you have to remember that a business can choose whom they do business with at will. I'm sure you've seen the signs that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Well, they exercised their right. And of course those signs are complete bullshit, with no legal standing. Jay Huh? It's a private business. I'm not sure I understand your point. See this, for example. Jay
Thanks for the link Jay, as you see it explicitly states that:
In reply to: Yes, however they (restaurants) are also considered places of public accommodation. In other words, the primary purpose of a restaurant is to sell food to the general public, which necessarily requires susceptibility to equal protection laws. Therefore, a restaurant’s existence as private property does not excuse an unjustified refusal of service. This can be contrasted to a nightclub, which usually caters itself to a specific group of clientele based on age and social status.
A rock wall is not a “public accommodation” and therefore can refuse anyone.
Oh and for an example of racial discrimination, look at the churches in America they are the most segregated places. But that is a different forum…
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jt512
May 28, 2009, 12:46 PM
Post #48 of 103
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: acorneau wrote: While a warning/explination would have been the professional thing to do, you have to remember that a business can choose whom they do business with at will. I'm sure you've seen the signs that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Well, they exercised their right. And of course those signs are complete bullshit, with no legal standing. Jay Huh? It's a private business. I'm not sure I understand your point. See this, for example. Jay One should read closely what one posts as a source to backup one’s point. Otherwise one has the risk of their french fart hoisting them. (IAAAGL) Thanks for the link Jay, as you see it explicitly states that: In reply to: Yes, however they (restaurants) are also considered places of public accommodation. In other words, the primary purpose of a restaurant is to sell food to the general public, which necessarily requires susceptibility to equal protection laws. Therefore, a restaurant’s existence as private property does not excuse an unjustified refusal of service. This can be contrasted to a nightclub, which usually caters itself to a specific group of clientele based on age and social status. A rock wall is not a “public accommodation” and therefore can refuse anyone.
Can you prove (1) that a climbing gym is not a public accommodation under common and statutory law, and (2) the fact that it is not means the owner has the right to refuse service to anyone without cause?
Jay
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GunnerFrits
May 28, 2009, 1:28 PM
Post #49 of 103
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IsayAutumn
May 28, 2009, 1:50 PM
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GunnerFrits wrote: You guys do know that I am a female.... This is in reply to ppl going off on tangents about the word platonic.
Ah ha! Now this is getting interesting.
Also, what is a French fart?
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