|
|
|
|
alpheli
Feb 12, 2005, 3:42 AM
Post #1 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 6
|
I used to love The North Face gear (I have a >5 old Himalyan Suit and I love it) . However a couple of years has passed since then. Now they seem to be insisting on burning their brand for cash as fast as possible.
The kichatna jacket was the standard for jackets (at least in Sweden) and their tents were top-of-the-line. But now there seems to be no development except maybe the new line of eyewear...jeez..
I would understand if it made business sense, but destroying the client base of climbers that give the brand the "x-factor", and which is the reason that mom & pop are willing to pay premium dollars for a 3-ply jacket they don't need and use for simple jogging/walking (or just wear to pick up the kids from school).
Many/Most climber have moved on to other brands such as Arcteryx, and it won't take that many years before "x-factor"-hunting-wannabes realise this and move on also. Then TNF will be left with a lame brand, mediocre gear, only being able to charge mediocre prices and stuck with the bills from the expeditions they sponsored while desperately trying make people believe they still have the "x-factor".
I'm getting long winded so I won't get into what TNF did with A5, but the images pretty much says it all.
Pre-TNF:
http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/A5f/image26.jpghttp://www.bigwalls.net/climb/A5f/image18.jpg
Post-TNF:
http://www.bigwalls.net/...b/A5f/A5-in-2003.jpg
The images are from http://www.bigwalls.net/climb/A5trans.html.
/Alpheli
|
|
|
|
|
sharpie
Feb 12, 2005, 5:08 AM
Post #2 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 8, 2002
Posts: 1111
|
TNF is no longer the company it used to be. Between the late 60's to mid 90's they developed a strong brand with an equally strong reputation for quality and innovation, and then were gobbled up by a conglomerate...
This should answer your question...http://www.vfc.com
They (TNF/VFC) damn near sank La Sportiva too in the late 90's, luckily they were able to fit their way out of the machine.
|
|
|
|
|
jimdavis
Feb 12, 2005, 5:25 AM
Post #3 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1935
|
Yeah, their gear pretty much sucks now. Their upper line stuff is still good, but most of it isn't worth it these days.
I've already seen someone on our campus that schedules intermural sports and pool schedules wearing a Cloudviel hardshell. I know the guy presonally, I don't think he even owns a backpack; definitly not a harness. He used to be our marketing/ financial co-ordinator for the climbing program I work for (and no we didn't have pro on Cloudviel).
Now that Marmot is making it's way into EMS's more, you can expect to see more people wearing PreCips and Sharp Points. Hopefully Marmot won't go the way of TNF.
Cheers,
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
nedsurf
Feb 12, 2005, 5:41 AM
Post #4 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 9, 2004
Posts: 387
|
:lol: I love seeing the mall walkers paying way too much for that crap, thinking they are Xtreme. The company that bought TNF is pretty smart though. They are definitly making more money on hyping the brand and selling volume to many more people. Plus they save a dime by having inferior product made overseas.
It is disgusting corprate, but hey, let us, the climbing community, consciously develop these brands then sell the rights to some corprate conglomerate. If we set the start up right as an employee owned entity we all can make beer and gear money. Plus we can undermine the brand within the climbing community, after it is sold by submitting anynomous letters to the editor of rock and ice, explaining that product quality is about to take a major downturn.
|
|
|
|
|
monkeyarm
Feb 12, 2005, 5:50 AM
Post #5 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2002
Posts: 323
|
TNF is smart right now they are making a bundle selling their line to a alrger market because it is a hot item, why would you create a better product only to lost your customer bas who don't care who it performs as long as it looks good in the mall.
If the company ever loses its popularity if it starts producing quality products it will attract the outdoor market again who are always looking for teh best and cheapest.
nerserf wrote:
In reply to: :lol: I love seeing the mall walkers paying way too much for that crap, thinking they are Xtreme.
See i look at it the other way, i laugh when i see someone camping in it
|
|
|
|
|
nicklikesfire
Feb 12, 2005, 5:51 AM
Post #6 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2004
Posts: 149
|
The TNF fleeces (denali, I think) Are uber trendy around here, the Northeast. I don't know why.
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Feb 12, 2005, 6:15 AM
Post #7 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
though i tend to buy other brands, and definitly shy away fro most TNF stuff, i just bought a new pack from them, and i think its bitchin.
hit or miss i guess, mostly miss, but sometimes the stuff is cool. ya just gotta be an informed consumer.
|
|
|
|
|
euroford
Feb 12, 2005, 6:16 AM
Post #8 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
|
though i tend to buy other brands, and definitly shy away fro most TNF stuff, i just bought a new pack from them, and i think its bitchin.
hit or miss i guess, mostly miss, but sometimes the stuff is cool. ya just gotta be an informed consumer.
|
|
|
|
|
cgailey
Feb 12, 2005, 6:41 AM
Post #10 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 585
|
In reply to: In reply to: What happened to TNF? they figured out that they could make more money selling overpriced jackets to about 300 million 9-5ers, soccer moms, and kids, then they could selling modestly priced garments to just a few thousand climbers.
Funny...REI is the same way.... :roll:
Guess you gotta make money somehow....unfortunately any resemblance of fidelity to their origins is quickly fading away... :?
|
|
|
|
|
ryan112ryan
Feb 12, 2005, 6:49 AM
Post #11 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 312
|
Some stuff from TNF is pretty good, I spend allot of time on choosing my gear, so if TNF ends up being the best suited, all things considered, then so be it. I can't stand when technical/serious outdoor gear/clothes become main stream, popularized, trendy, or are own and used by people who don't go outdoors with their outdoor gear. for example:
1) A kid on my ultimate team has a auto locking carb to attach his water bottle to his backpack (you know since you need something that is rated at 25 Kn to hold a water bottle weighing 4 pounds full)
2) How TNF jacket I have and use on backpacking and climbing trips every weekend is now something every rich yuppie asks their parents for to walk to class.....a whole 3 minute walk on my campus
3) Sorority sisters carrying nalgene bottles.....nuf said
4) High end breathable jacket that are suited for mountaineering etc. when it’s drizzling outside
|
|
|
|
|
jpdreamer
Feb 12, 2005, 7:10 AM
Post #12 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2000
Posts: 232
|
In reply to: 3) Sorority sisters carrying nalgene bottles.....nuf said
Actually I never thought this was strange. Why not use a nalgene for everyday use? It doesn't impart any taste to the water and is pretty well indistructable. Now if they were using a water bottle with a built in water purifier or something meant for backpacking I'd agree that's excess, but not on this one.
And reguarding TNF gear, I have a Cat's Meow sleeping bag which has served me well.
|
|
|
|
|
ryan112ryan
Feb 12, 2005, 7:20 AM
Post #13 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 312
|
In reply to: In reply to: 3) Sorority sisters carrying nalgene bottles.....nuf said Actually I never thought this was strange. Why not use a nalgene for everyday use? It doesn't impart any taste to the water and is pretty well indistructable. Now if they were using a water bottle with a built in water purifier or something meant for backpacking I'd agree that's excess, but not on this one.
yeah i can see that, but then again i think nalgene and i think of the times ive dropped it from high up or backpacking more outdoors stuff. funny story actaully there were some kids at my school who were big into outdoor stuff too and like me didn't like how all the outdoor gear was used by people who see the outdoors via TV. when ever they saw someone who had a nalgene that was unscratched/new they would take it and hurl in across the ground and get it all scratched up, though mean i couldn't help but smile :D
In reply to: And reguarding TNF gear, I have a Cat's Meow sleeping bag which has served me well.
i have the same one and i love it!
|
|
|
|
|
c-money
Deleted
Feb 12, 2005, 8:17 AM
Post #14 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
In reply to: TNF is no longer the company it used to be. Between the late 60's to mid 90's they developed a strong brand with an equally strong reputation for quality and innovation, and then were gobbled up by a conglomerate... This should answer your question... http://www.vfc.com
You got it.
TNF didn't change, or get smart as many have suggested: they sold out.
Whatever. They are now about "value for $" (as said by one of their reps) rather than quality and innovation. The funny thing is, many other big brands are better made AND better priced...
TNF could be the best example of a full on "extreme wanker" brand right now. How the mighty have fallen.
|
|
|
|
|
walrus
Feb 12, 2005, 9:00 AM
Post #15 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 136
|
I bought a tnf goretex jacket with liner and pants in a back alley in China a year ago. They looked good but the jacket leaks and the zipper is on the wrong side.
I will not pay full price for tnf. I do love my discounted tnf sleeping bag.
|
|
|
|
|
cgailey
Feb 12, 2005, 10:24 AM
Post #16 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 585
|
In reply to: I bought a tnf goretex jacket with liner and pants in a back alley in China a year ago. They looked good but the jacket leaks and the zipper is on the wrong side. I will not pay full price for tnf. I do love my discounted tnf sleeping bag.
Have you considered that just maybe your jacket and pants were knockoffs? :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
buckeyeclimbski
Feb 12, 2005, 1:04 PM
Post #17 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 21
|
Ok, I am currently a student at Ohio State University, and tnf denali fleece jacket, is the newest trendy apparel here on campus. There are a few of us that actually own north face denali and mountain hardware tech windstopper fleece's that have come to notice the sheer abundance of people with way too much money on their hands for college students. I had a girl in one of my classes that had five denali jackets. FIVE!!!, on of every color WTF!! When I asked her why she had five jackets , her reply was that she had to have one to match each pair of uggs that she had. For all of you who don't know what uggs are check out this website.
http://www.uggaustralia.com/Products.asp?dept_id=3&g=women&c=Classic&sc=33&col=2
|
|
|
|
|
fire_eyes
Feb 12, 2005, 1:23 PM
Post #18 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 252
|
In reply to: Some stuff from TNF is pretty good, I spend allot of time on choosing my gear, so if TNF ends up being the best suited, all things considered, then so be it. I can't stand when technical/serious outdoor gear/clothes become main stream, popularized, trendy, or are own and used by people who don't go outdoors with their outdoor gear. for example: 1) A kid on my ultimate team has a auto locking carb to attach his water bottle to his backpack (you know since you need something that is rated at 25 Kn to hold a water bottle weighing 4 pounds full) 2) How TNF jacket I have and use on backpacking and climbing trips every weekend is now something every rich yuppie asks their parents for to walk to class.....a whole 3 minute walk on my campus 3) Sorority sisters carrying nalgene bottles.....nuf said 4) High end breathable jacket that are suited for mountaineering etc. when it’s drizzling outside
I am so glad I can rate posts today :D
Good stuff Ryan...
|
|
|
|
|
climbingnurse
Feb 12, 2005, 2:12 PM
Post #19 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2003
Posts: 420
|
When the new A5 was rolled out they came to a store near where I live and set up a display. I walked up and looked the stuff over... And became really confused. I asked the rep "Where's all the aid gear?" I got a blank stare. It took him a few seconds to say "What's aid gear?"
Further questioning revealed that this guy had never tied into a rope and that A5 was no longer making gear for climbing A-anything.
I do have one of their shirts though. It's pretty nice. I just cut the tags off it.
|
|
|
|
|
harrisha
Feb 12, 2005, 2:21 PM
Post #20 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 314
|
Yeah, I used to have a old TNF bag > 5 yrs. It was awsome but the insulation lost its lofting power and I retired it. Now I feel they gone the way of mass marketed crap. I'd never pay $300+ for a TNF shell. Hell I wouldn't keep one if someone gave it to me. I'd turn around and sell it too some soccer momby telling her she needed three-ply XCR to go get the newspaper at the end of the drive way. I think my ultimate new gripe is the MET-5 (that jacket that has a battery and heats up).
On a side note, this girl I go to school with has a boyfriend who dad is one of VF Corp. vice presidents. I told her she should try to talk to him about TNF quality and prices, being that it is overpriced crap. She just kind of looked at me like what, despite the fact that its 70 degrees I'm stylin' my denalie jacket. You know the pink looks great with these boots and jeans. My point here is, as long as this is the customer base don't expect any drastic changes at TNF.
|
|
|
|
|
climbingnurse
Feb 12, 2005, 2:22 PM
Post #21 of 116
(15115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2003
Posts: 420
|
On another note:
One of my clinical rotations is in an innercity trauma center. TNF is VERY popular with my clientelle there. I can tell you from personal experience that it is NOT bulletproof.
|
|
|
|
|
harrisha
Feb 12, 2005, 2:22 PM
Post #22 of 116
(4972 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 314
|
Yeah, I used to have a old TNF bag > 5 yrs. It was awsome but the insulation lost its lofting power and I retired it. Now I feel they gone the way of mass marketed crap. I'd never pay $300+ for a TNF shell. Hell I wouldn't keep one if someone gave it to me. I'd turn around and sell it too some soccer momby telling her she needed three-ply XCR to go get the newspaper at the end of the drive way. I think my ultimate new gripe is the MET-5 (that jacket that has a battery and heats up).
On a side note, this girl I go to school with has a boyfriend who dad is one of VF Corp. vice presidents. I told her she should try to talk to him about TNF quality and prices, being that it is overpriced crap. She just kind of looked at me like what, despite the fact that its 70 degrees I'm stylin' my denalie jacket. You know the pink looks great with these boots and jeans. My point here is, as long as this is the customer base don't expect any drastic changes at TNF.
|
|
|
|
|
harrisha
Feb 12, 2005, 2:27 PM
Post #23 of 116
(4972 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 314
|
Yeah, I used to have a old TNF bag > 5 yrs. It was awsome but the insulation lost its lofting power and I retired it. Now I feel they gone the way of mass marketed crap. I'd never pay $300+ for a TNF shell. Hell I wouldn't keep one if someone gave it to me. I'd turn around and sell it too some soccer momby telling her she needed three-ply XCR to go get the newspaper at the end of the drive way. I think my ultimate new gripe is the MET-5 (that jacket that has a battery and heats up).
On a side note, this girl I go to school with has a boyfriend who dad is one of VF Corp. vice presidents. I told her she should try to talk to him about TNF quality and prices, being that it is overpriced crap. She just kind of looked at me like what, despite the fact that its 70 degrees I'm stylin' my denalie jacket. You know the pink looks great with these boots and jeans. My point here is, as long as this is the customer base don't expect any drastic changes at TNF.
|
|
|
|
|
harrisha
Feb 12, 2005, 2:28 PM
Post #24 of 116
(4972 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 314
|
Yeah, I used to have a old TNF bag > 5 yrs. It was awsome but the insulation lost its lofting power and I retired it. Now I feel they gone the way of mass marketed crap. I'd never pay $300+ for a TNF shell. Hell I wouldn't keep one if someone gave it to me. I'd turn around and sell it too some soccer momby telling her she needed three-ply XCR to go get the newspaper at the end of the drive way. I think my ultimate new gripe is the MET-5 (that jacket that has a battery and heats up).
On a side note, this girl I go to school with has a boyfriend who dad is one of VF Corp. vice presidents. I told her she should try to talk to him about TNF quality and prices, being that it is overpriced crap. She just kind of looked at me like what, despite the fact that its 70 degrees I'm stylin' my denalie jacket. You know the pink looks great with these boots and jeans. My point here is, as long as this is the customer base don't expect any drastic changes at TNF.
|
|
|
|
|
harrisha
Feb 12, 2005, 2:29 PM
Post #25 of 116
(4972 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 314
|
Yeah, I used to have a old TNF bag more than 5 yrs. old. It was awsome but the insulation lost its lofting power and I retired it. Now I feel they gone the way of mass marketed crap. I'd never pay 300 for a TNF shell. Hell I wouldn't keep one if someone gave it to me. I'd turn around and sell it too some soccer momby telling her she needed three-ply XCR to go get the newspaper at the end of the drive way. I think my ultimate new gripe is the MET-5 that jacket that has a battery and heats up.
On a side note, this girl I go to school with has a boyfriend who dad is one of VF Corp. vice presidents. I told her she should try to talk to him about TNF quality and prices, being that it is overpriced crap. She just kind of looked at me like what, despite the fact that its 70 degrees I'm stylin' my denalie jacket. You know the pink looks great with these boots and jeans. My point here is, as long as this is the customer base don't expect any drastic changes at TNF.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: What happened to TNF?
[
1
