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orpu25
Mar 10, 2005, 8:16 PM
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Dear fellows,
It's now a year of doing Pull-ups for me, and I can't get beyond the 15 reps per set.
I desperately need tips for getting my arms strengh better and especially on How to go to around 30 or more pullups.
I practice pullups for about year, in the first 7 months I went from like 2 pullups to 15, then in the next 4 or 5 months I couldn't get to even the 16 rep. (In the year of practicing I've done them everyday).
I have to mention that I perform the pullups strictly and do not move my legs for momentum.
Please give me tips for the fastest way to improve my numbers big time, how many sets, how many time break between sets, how many days per week to do pullups, if to use some more weight hang on me and how many Kg should it be?
Thank you very much,
Or, trying desperately to improve pullups...
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billcoe_
Mar 10, 2005, 8:28 PM
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In reply to: Please give me tips for the fastest way to improve my numbers big time, how many sets, how many time break between sets, how many days per week to do pullups, if to use some more weight hang on me and how many Kg should it be? Thank you very much, Or, trying desperately to improve pullups...
Wheres Eric Horst when he's needed?
If you are doing pullups to improve your climbing, consider getting the Horst book, "Flash Training". He suggests several things you'd really like to know, but I barely remember them now and I'm at work. Here's his site, but that book is better because it has so much more info IMO:
http://www.trainingforclimbing.com/
Other than that, maybe a training partner would help push you?
Good luck either way.
Bill
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tchamber
Mar 10, 2005, 8:36 PM
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Lose weight.
I used to be able to do ~15 pullups in a set... I dropped around 20 pounds and now I can do one arm lock offs with no problem (working my way toward the coveted one armed pullup).
It's not strength, it's strength to weight ratio.
Edited to say that now I'm able to do 20+ (I usually stop at 20 in a set) pullups per set.
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landgolier
Mar 10, 2005, 8:36 PM
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Granted I can only hit 10, but I used to do a lot of weight training so here goes...
Are you varying your workout at all, or just grabbing the bar every day and firing until you can't get any more? I would reccomend switching it up, doing some uneven ones (drape a towel or a sling or something over one side of the bar and grab it lower than your otheer hand), or maybe gripping really wide and really narrow. Also, I've found that one move that has helped my climbing is to grab the bar like a baseball bat (one hand each way) and do pullups, alternating which side of the bar your head goes on. Even doing chin-ups (palms facing you) can help isolate different muscles and movements. You can also experiment with weights or negatives (lowering really slow or even having somebody grab your ankles or hips and pull you downward while you resist). Again, I'm shooting in the dark here, but I'd suspect that if you take the focus off of reps for a month or so and instead try to vary the workout and do things that isolate the different muscle groups involved, you'll find that you'll get some gains. Isolation and variation can only help you out on the rock, as well, since rarely do you get the opportunity to do a classic pull-up motion out in the wild.
-T
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clmbr121
Mar 10, 2005, 8:38 PM
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Try doing pull-ups with additional weight. Tie a weight onto a weight belt and try to crank out fewer pull ups than usual. For instance, try adding 10 lbs. of resistance and crank out 10 pull ups. You should then be able to slowly work your way back up to 15. Then lose the weight and see what you can crank out then.
You can also try a workout that I posted a few weeks ago:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=81991&highlight=
Putting some push ups in there will add some cardio into your workout (which could be another issue; you are probably going anaerobic when you get close to 15 pull ups, and creating more lactic acid and less effeciency...do you run or anything to keep your heart in shape?), it will also stave off tendonitis that occurs from overuse of muscle groups without excersising opposing groups.
Hope this helps.
- Brian
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icarus_burned
Mar 10, 2005, 8:41 PM
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take a week off for starters, pull ups to failure everyday have your muscles fried, muscles grow and get stronger during periods of rest. not use
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sed
Mar 10, 2005, 8:43 PM
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take all the time and effort you put into doing pull-ups and instead put it into actual climbing. climbing won't do much for pull up strength but it will make you a better climber.
S
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billcoe_
Mar 10, 2005, 8:44 PM
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Lose weight is a good call. I'm thinking liposuction myself, but it's almost to the point where they'd need an industrial pump truck to suck just the first 2 of my many chins out of there. Sh*t, I almost need to get a bookmark to find my damn mouth anymore.
It's a little frustration to not crank like I use to, and when I do, not recover as fast. However, at 50 years old, I can only do 2 thats "two", continous pullups, so what the hell.
Here's a specific link from the Horst site which may help you on your vision quest:
http://www.nicros.com/New%20Training%20Center/Increase%20Pull%20Strength.shtml
Regards:
Bill
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sandbag
Mar 10, 2005, 8:45 PM
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Work on your overall strength endurance. Your mitochrondria are tapped out and need to be replenished for ATP production. Its similar to why the worlds fastest 100M runners cant run the 400M as well as the 400M specialists. They just run out of fuel, literally. They have diiferent muscle make ups, and most of it is in the training. when i was training for this sort of stuff, i'd do my workout, then climb. for as long as i could stay on the walls at the gym i belonged to. The pull ups got easy so sets of 15 were where i started wieghing my self down with additional plates or dumbells to make my muscles develop more output. I also would go to absolut failure on a gravitron/pull up assist machine and that is where the real endurance was developed. Im out of shape now and can still jump on a 2x4 and do 10-12 pull ups at will, but it was lots of working out and suffereing to get there. good luck. research muscle/strength endurance, not just for climbing, but for all sports.
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kermitzclimber
Mar 15, 2005, 9:52 PM
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Losing weight... always a plus...
But if you are strictly doing just pullups, in only on manner, your body will then adapt and you will plateau. Best thing I can say that really helped me was to switch it up. Do some other excersizes that help to increase the strength in your back like rows.
Also, some of this is mental as well.. " Oh here is #15... ok ok.. here comes 16... ahhh I can't forget it"
Break through the barrier in your mind first.. then have your body follow.
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bensnyder
Mar 15, 2005, 10:07 PM
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I have a pull up bar in the door way of my room, and I use it alot. I have a work out that I do after not climbing for a few months and it goes something like this:
Week 1: 10 pull ups every time I enter my room
Week 2: 12 pull ups every time I enter my room
Week 3: 14 pull ups every time I enter my room
Week 4: 16 pull ups every time I enter my room, 10 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave
Week 5: 18 pull ups every time I enter my room, 12 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave
Week 6: 20 pull ups every time I enter my room, 14 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave
Week 7: 22 pull ups every time I enter my room, 16sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave
Week 8: 24 pull ups every time I enter my room, 18 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave
Week 9: 26 pull ups every time I enter my room, 20 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave
Week 10: 28 pull ups every time I enter my room, 22 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave
Some keys to this to work:
Don't cheat/make excuses - even if I'm in a rush, I still do my pull ups/lock offs and then leave
Take a week or two off to rest in the middle and veg.
If you follow the plan, you should be home free. I have all the upper body power/endurance I need after completing this cycle; I max out just shy of 40 pull ups, and I can do a couple of one arms to top it all off.
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screamer
Mar 15, 2005, 10:10 PM
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No shit, rest man...Your muscles need time to heal.
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chouca
Mar 15, 2005, 10:34 PM
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Supersets are the answer. Warmup. First do pullups. Start big, go medium, go small. Then, dead hang on Small, Medium, and large holds. Warm down.
Two or three times a week of this routine will turn you into a beast and keep you from thrashing tendons if you wait for full recovery before you do your next workout/climbing day.
Get strong,
Marc B.
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wyhotshot
Mar 15, 2005, 10:46 PM
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In reply to: No s---, rest man...Your muscles need time to heal. |
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theclimbinglab
Mar 15, 2005, 10:54 PM
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I'm not sure what the relevance of being able to do 40 pull ups is :?
After about 10/15 pull ups you are probably best shifting your focus traing wise. What about campusing or various lock-off exercises?
Just think - How often do I do 15 pull ups during a climb? Never that's how many, but lock-offs or campus style moves...........................
Good luck
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maldaly
Mar 15, 2005, 11:00 PM
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Pullups are over-rated. My arm strength fails me when I get pumped. I never fail at pullups because I'm pumped. I fail at pullups because I can't pull any more. Katie Brown was leadiinng 5.13 when she was 11 and could barely do 1. When I was leading 5.12 trad I couldn't do 10. I know the world's different now but I think that pullups build pullup-specific muscles that aren't used very often in the climing world. There is, however, a direct link between pullups and elbow tendonitis.
Mal
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theclimbinglab
Mar 15, 2005, 11:13 PM
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In reply to: Pullups are over-rated. My arm strength fails me when I get pumped. I never fail at pullups because I'm pumped. I fail at pullups because I can't pull any more. Katie Brown was leadiinng 5.13 when she was 11 and could barely do 1. When I was leading 5.12 trad I couldn't do 10. I know the world's different now but I think that pullups build pullup-specific muscles that aren't used very often in the climing world. There is, however, a direct link between pullups and elbow tendonitis. Mal
This is true, but I'm sure that Katie would have improved if she had spent more time on strength training elements. It all depend on your relative strength/weaknesses. If you are fairly strong in the arms/shoulders then you may gain more in other areas
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icarus_burned
Mar 16, 2005, 11:30 PM
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In reply to: I have a pull up bar in the door way of my room, and I use it alot. I have a work out that I do after not climbing for a few months and it goes something like this: Week 1: 10 pull ups every time I enter my room Week 2: 12 pull ups every time I enter my room Week 3: 14 pull ups every time I enter my room Week 4: 16 pull ups every time I enter my room, 10 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave Week 5: 18 pull ups every time I enter my room, 12 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave Week 6: 20 pull ups every time I enter my room, 14 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave Week 7: 22 pull ups every time I enter my room, 16sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave Week 8: 24 pull ups every time I enter my room, 18 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave Week 9: 26 pull ups every time I enter my room, 20 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave Week 10: 28 pull ups every time I enter my room, 22 sec one arm lock off with each arm each time I leave Some keys to this to work: Don't cheat/make excuses - even if I'm in a rush, I still do my pull ups/lock offs and then leave Take a week or two off to rest in the middle and veg. If you follow the plan, you should be home free. I have all the upper body power/endurance I need after completing this cycle; I max out just shy of 40 pull ups, and I can do a couple of one arms to top it all off.
congrats on being a mutant..
please note this is not a derisory comment
there is no way i could do that amount of training. i must walk in and outta my room 20 times a day that equates up to 200 pull ups a day, every day then bumping up in the following week?
even if i halfed that number my muscles, tendons and most of my upper skeletal structure would be shot to shit in 3 days.
but from what else ive read you pull v8+ after 6 months and im on v5 after the same.....maybe thats the difference.
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icarus_burned
Mar 21, 2005, 6:13 PM
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and now i have proof....................
tried to attempt this workout over the last few days. managed the first 10 no bother, 2nd 3rd and right up till abut 4th set was fine.......5th set managed 8 and it was down hill from then on.........i couted and i walked in and out my room a further 18 times that day.....
following day
first entrance managed 8..........my trapezius shouted at me not to even think about doin it again
day three
still sore from day 1.....
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photon
Mar 21, 2005, 6:56 PM
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along with this thread start a couple more:
How to cure tendonitis.
Looking for outdated useless training methods
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lucas_timmer
Mar 21, 2005, 7:52 PM
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I think you should get a better strenth to weight ratio and do more different excercises.If you want to loose a lot of weight, then do the following:
-Don't eat unneccesary fat(fries,chips stuff like that.)
-Drink a lot of water, preferably 1 or 1½ liters a day.
-Don't drink(I know how hard it is :( )
-Don't eat candy and other sugary things you don't need.
If you can do that for 3 months your guaranteed to loose much fat and you can probaply do more pull-ups.
Good luck :wink:
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lucas_timmer
Mar 21, 2005, 7:55 PM
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I think you should get a better strenth to weight ratio and do more different excercises.If you want to loose a lot of weight, then do the following:
-Don't eat unneccesary fat(fries,chips stuff like that.)
-Drink a lot of water, preferably 1 or 1½ liters a day.
-Don't drink(I know how hard it is :( )
-Don't eat candy and other sugary things you don't need.
If you can do that for 3 months your guaranteed to loose much fat and you can probaply do more pull-ups.
Good luck :wink:
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bensnyder
Mar 21, 2005, 8:23 PM
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In reply to: and now i have proof.................... tried to attempt this workout over the last few days. managed the first 10 no bother, 2nd 3rd and right up till abut 4th set was fine.......5th set managed 8 and it was down hill from then on.........i couted and i walked in and out my room a further 18 times that day..... following day first entrance managed 8..........my trapezius shouted at me not to even think about doin it again day three still sore from day 1.....
Haha. No wonder. The reason this works for me is probably that I only walk into and out of my room 8 or 10 times a day! I find that as I commit myself to the plan, I only enter my room when I feel I can do the pull ups required to get in, and the lock offs required to get out. Idk...it kind of turns into an obsessive compulsive thing. But anyways...i guess this'll work well for people like me who aren't always going into and out of their rooms anyways.
Oh and another thing I forgot to mention in my original post - [this is directed at the post of the author of this thread] when I started doing this work out, I could do about 25 pull ups max. So I guess you should adjust accordingly if your max is 15. Maybe start out week one doing 6 or 7 every time you enter your room...it's not as brutal as it sounds. Just adjust it to work for you...
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icarus_burned
Mar 22, 2005, 2:48 PM
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i max out at 30...........
well 28 and a wee kick or two up
cant hold a lock off for more than about 15 secs
and i cannot even do half a one arm
but im old now so i guess you cant beat youth.........
PS im 21
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fluxus
Mar 23, 2005, 7:19 PM
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Here is something for all you pull-up folks to think about.
Between the ages of 18 - 22 I could do about 40 pull-ups in a set on a bar.
I could do 2 - 3 finger tip pull-ups with 80 extra pounds on my back.
I had frequent days when I did 500 - 800 pull-ups in the course of a training session.
I could do 5 one arm pull-ups.
I could climb 5.12d - 5.13a with 4 or more days of work.
I climbed 2 - 3 days per week getting about 3 -4 pitches in a day.
between the ages of 26 - 32 when I was at my climbing peak
I could do about 18 - 20 pull ups in a set if you asked me to but it was not easy.
I never trained pull-ups at all
I could do a 1 one arm pull up if I was really, really, really, motiviated.
I climbed 3 - 5 days per week and did 10 - 20 pitches a day.
I on- sighted 5.12d over 70% of the time, and just about always did 5.13a second try.
Have fun with your pull-ups.
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deadpointman
Mar 25, 2005, 7:03 AM
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The exercise physiology principle of VARIATION is key here. First, to eliminate the possibility of overtraining being a problem. Take at least a fulll week off from climbing and training. Then, do something different. Try adding weight to your body and doing fewer reps. Or, try doing around thirty reps my having someone assist you or using a lat pulldown machine with less than bodyweight. The bottom line is that you have to change the focus of your workouts periodically or you will reach a plateau where you completely cease to improve. The best of luck to all you pullup fiends out there!
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nem0
Mar 25, 2005, 8:08 AM
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First Post here...Have you tried using a campus board?? Pull ups wont help you if you can't hold on to the hold. I really can't think of a single problem (minus dynos) that would still be hard if all the holds were replaced with jugs. Therefore, I think it is best to train by pulling on small or slopy holds. One arm pull ups on crimps and slopers is my goal, but I can't do one arm pull ups...so I think I will start by doing one arms on jugs and dead hangs on crimps, then combine the two when the times comes. Also, have you guys tried hanging one arm (or 2) on an edge open handed and then rolling it to a crimp and then letting it back out? Neither have I, but I here it helps.
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lucas_timmer
Mar 25, 2005, 9:50 AM
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I can't do more than 5 pullups in a set, but I can do a lock off with my hand palms towards me for 40 seconds and with my palms in the other direction for 30 seconds.
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jorian_nl
Mar 25, 2005, 12:00 PM
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I can do on my stair 25 pullups on a normal day,30 on a good day. can do a lock-off for about 1 minute.
I weigh only 60 kg.
I hope to do a one-arm pullup when I am 20
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lucas_timmer
Mar 25, 2005, 1:32 PM
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In reply to: I can do on my stair 25 pullups on a normal day,30 on a good day. can do a lock-off for about 1 minute. I weigh only 60 kg. I hope to do a one-arm pullup when I am 20
I don't bother if I can't do a one arm pull-up, I don't see why you have to do 40 pull-ups.you don't need those movements very much for climbing.
P.S. I can do something like 50-60 with pauzes, not on a row.
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jorian_nl
Mar 25, 2005, 2:24 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I can do on my stair 25 pullups on a normal day,30 on a good day. can do a lock-off for about 1 minute. I weigh only 60 kg. I hope to do a one-arm pullup when I am 20 So that will be in 5 years ?? I don't bother if I can't do a one arm pull-up, I don't see why you have to do 40 pull-ups.you don't need those movements very much for climbing. P.S. I can do something like 50-60 with pauzes, not on a row.
That's true, I know girls that climb harder than me but they can't do one pull-up.
I ment that I can do 25 pull-ups without resting, never tried with pauzes.
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lucas_timmer
Mar 25, 2005, 2:35 PM
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In reply to: I know girls that climb harder than me but they can't do one pull-up. |
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jt512
Mar 25, 2005, 5:15 PM
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In reply to: ...I can do a lock off with my hand palms towards me for 40 seconds...
AND THIS HAS TO DO WHAT WITH ROCK CLIMBING!?
-Jay
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fluxus
Mar 25, 2005, 5:44 PM
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In reply to: First Post here...snip . . . Also, have you guys tried hanging one arm (or 2) on an edge open handed and then rolling it to a crimp and then letting it back out? Neither have I, but I here it helps.
This thread contains a lot of ideas that are fraknly rather silly and that have nothing to do with climbing. The above idea may be one of the worst one's yet. Why? Because it requires the wrong type of muscular contraction done in a way that is begging for injury.
Is this thread for real or is it just one big troll fest?
sorry to shut you down on your very first post. better luck next time.
In reply to: In reply to: . . .I can do a lock off with my hand palms towards me for 40 seconds . . AND THIS HAS TO DO WHAT WITH ROCK CLIMBING!?
What it has to do with rock climbing is that its a great thing to say when you are hanging on the rope after failing on your 40th red point attempt on your 5.9- slab project. "I can lock off for 40 seconds! how come I can't do this thing?!"
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mheyman
Mar 25, 2005, 5:56 PM
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I recently started weight training due to a shoulder injury. I found I was one of the weaker males in the gym. I couldn’t figure out how I could climb as well as I do, and be so weak. I m not under weight either.
I proved to myself something I already knew: technique is as important as strength.
Eventually I learned that I did have some strength. It was not in the muscles pulling down as in a pull up, it is in the muscles pulling in. Good climbers mostly hold themselves on the rock/wall with their arms only as necessary, and move using their legs.
Incidentally my shoulder injury might have been worsened by imbalanced muscle mass. I now do a well-rounded weight work out. So far it appears to be helping.
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climbaddic
Mar 25, 2005, 6:00 PM
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What does pullup got to do with climbing? If you are trying to climb better, go with technique. Technique will get you much much further. Also, ladies will appreciate your technique more than your pullup power :)
I think I can do like 10 pullup on my good day, but I can still keep up climbing with majority of the people. I remember there used to be this girl who can't do a single pullup, but she climbs 5.12.
Just a thought.
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nem0
Mar 25, 2005, 7:17 PM
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In response to fluxus...That method came dirrectly from James Litz. He is perhaps the strongest climber on crimps in the world...are you? You shoot things down without even a thought. One question, how hard DO you climb? Why don't you try these methods before you shoot them down. Wait, you probably can't...you are not strong enough, and you will probably never be strong enough because you are to stuck up and to afraid of getting injured. Alright, enough personal response. Now, let me give you a few problems were it is necesary to essentially do a one arm off of a small hold AND roll it to a crimp from open hand: God Module (HP Alabama), No Greener Grass (Mt Evan CO), When Harry Met Sally (Squamish, BC), Sharma Lung (Squamish, BC), Atomic Melvin (Boone, NC), men's finals problem number 4 The Spot ABS nationals 2005. My point is that I have found my weeknesses from dirrect experience. I know that I need to work on one arm pullups and lockoffs on small crimps and rolling crimps from open handed to crimped if I want to better my climbing. Those friends of mine that can do these do better on those problems mentioned above and all the others in the world. Thats a fact. Maybe you don't need to get this streangth...I don't know, I dont know you! But I do, and who are you to tell me that I don't. I am just trying to give people Ideas here. Don't rain on the parade. :lol:
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fluxus
Mar 25, 2005, 7:40 PM
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In reply to: In response to fluxus...That method came dirrectly from James Litz. He is perhaps the strongest climber on crimps in the world...are you? You shoot things down without even a thought. One question, how hard DO you climb? Why don't you try these methods before you shoot them down. Wait, you probably can't...you are not strong enough, and you will probably never be strong enough because you are to stuck up and to afraid of getting injured. Alright, enough personal response. Now, let me give you a few problems were it is necesary to essentially do a one arm off of a small hold AND roll it to a crimp from open hand: God Module (HP Alabama), No Greener Grass (Mt Evan CO), When Harry Met Sally (Squamish, BC), Sharma Lung (Squamish, BC), Atomic Melvin (Boone, NC), men's finals problem number 4 The Spot ABS nationals 2005. My point is that I have found my weeknesses from dirrect experience. I know that I need to work on one arm pullups and lockoffs on small crimps and rolling crimps from open handed to crimped if I want to better my climbing. Those friends of mine that can do these do better on those problems mentioned above and all the others in the world. Thats a fact. Maybe you don't need to get this streangth...I don't know, I dont know you! But I do, and who are you to tell me that I don't. I am just trying to give people Ideas here. Don't rain on the parade. :lol:
Dude, you are so awesome! First of all I shoot things down with 25 years of thought not no thought. Second, although my best climbing is long behind me the climbing I could do in a day 10 years ago is still far out of reach for about 95% of American climbers.
What should impress you about a workout is not weather or not it comes from a rad climber but if it makes mechanical or physiological sense. which the workout you advocate does not.
later
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nem0
Mar 25, 2005, 8:01 PM
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My point is that these methods work for people. Cauch Potato analysis is no substitute for real results, I don't care who you are. Doing one arms on small holds and slopers, and being able to roll holds to crimps WILL help your climbing. There are many situations that will require these skills. I am trying to give, and find, ways of gaining these skills. Hanging one arm on an edge (door jamb will do) and rolling it to a crimp and then doing one arms on it....if you work up to this, I gaurantee you will climb harder...oh by the way, I dig your elitest attitude. What are these 'amazing routes' you did 10 years ago? Action direct?...that went up about 10 years ago, right?
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sidepull
Mar 25, 2005, 8:21 PM
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I'm curious about the dude that did pullups every time he walked into his room: could you do a one-arm lock off before you started training this way?
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screamer
Mar 25, 2005, 8:25 PM
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Ok, nemo and fluxus i got my popcorn..continue... :D
healthy debate
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clmbr121
Mar 25, 2005, 8:48 PM
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Which will be the better main event?
Nemo vs. Fluxus
or
DJ vs RO (in the Zion History thread)
I know...we settle this in a cage match!
First one to campus out wins!
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maxclimber1w
Mar 25, 2005, 8:54 PM
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I used to able to do 30 pullups, when I was about 13 (no lower body strength/weight), and can now only do about 20 tops, if I push it a little. However, I climb much better than I used to, and only do pullups when I am desperate for some pump and haven't been climbing for a few days. Personally, I think that core strength is much more important than pullup training. You can do alot of climbing-specific core workouts on a pullup bar, too.
That said, I do sometimes train lockoffs on my pullup bar. I can't do dynamic moves for the life of me and often need to lock off and reeeach to make some of these moves.
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fluxus
Mar 25, 2005, 8:55 PM
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In reply to: My point is that these methods work for people. Cauch Potato analysis is no substitute for real results, I don't care who you are. Doing one arms on small holds and slopers, and being able to roll holds to crimps WILL help your climbing. There are many situations that will require these skills. I am trying to give, and find, ways of gaining these skills. Hanging one arm on an edge (door jamb will do) and rolling it to a crimp and then doing one arms on it....if you work up to this, I gaurantee you will climb harder...oh by the way, I dig your elitest attitude. What are these 'amazing routes' you did 10 years ago? Action direct?...that went up about 10 years ago, right?
Gotta love the rad dudes with chips on their shoulders.
Your point is moot (to quote an old SNL sketch). Climbers do many things that they think "WILL" help their climbing that are based on ideology or preconcieved notions but that have little relation to the actual demands of climbing performance. The activities you advocate are great examples. I'm quite sure that these party tricks require impressive strength from the upper back and arm but they are not based, in any rigorous way, on the physiological demands of climbing performance. do you understand what this means?
I know I am wasting my time here, but I'll finish the thought. You clearly have very passionate feelings about certain types of activities and their impact on climbing but what you lack is an understanding of how climbing works, how the body creates movement, what muscles are involved, the intensities and durations of work involved etc etc etc.
I wonder why you think my analysis is "cauch potato" its anything but that. I am one of the few people in the US who has actually spent time trying to quantify climbing movement and the demands of climbing performance at any given level. But from your posts I'm not sure you will understand what that means.
Action Direct was put up well before 1995. Remember Wolfgang had been dead for some time at that point.
As for my climbing, I'm sure nothing I write will impress you, which is fine. But since you asked, a good training day for me 11 years ago included about a dozen pitches of 5.13 with 2 - 4 minutes rest between each and then another dozen pitches of 5.12 and then 6 - 10 pitches of easier stuff for a warm up and cool down. And yea, I bouldered harder than V10 and all that. The fact that I could red point 5.14 in under 10 tries is not impressive by todays standards but there are still not many climbers who can handel the volume of 5.13 I could in a day.
peace
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a_guy_named_smith
Mar 25, 2005, 9:07 PM
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BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMM
take that you young whippersnapper you
fluxus
lands the haymaker
it landed so hard that we might just have to search to
find nemo
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screamer
Mar 25, 2005, 9:08 PM
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Personally i think fluxus should have his own coaching/training column. Not sure if your coaching anymore, i remeber when you where coaching at RR in the mid 90's. But i do think what you have to say about the physiology of climbing is very educational.
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fluxus
Mar 25, 2005, 9:20 PM
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Thanks you guys, just trying to entertain. . . But I'm sure Nem0 will come right back at me, with a hum dinger.
what's up kevin? It sound like you are climbing well and climbing often. :-)
peace
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clmbr121
Mar 25, 2005, 9:28 PM
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In reply to: fluxus lands the haymaker
...more of a bitch slap, methinks. :wink:
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a_guy_named_smith
Mar 25, 2005, 10:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: fluxus lands the haymaker ...more of a b---- slap, methinks. :wink:
ohh good point
fluxus is clearly to old to punch hard
and i bet that he has arthritis so bad from all of his years of bad training techniques that he cant even close his hand
yup bitch slap it was
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lucas_timmer
Mar 25, 2005, 10:49 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: ...I can do a lock off with my hand palms towards me for 40 seconds... AND THIS HAS TO DO WHAT WITH ROCK CLIMBING!? -Jay |
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fluxus
Mar 25, 2005, 11:25 PM
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In reply to: ohh good point fluxus is clearly to old to punch hard and i bet that he has arthritis so bad from all of his years of bad training techniques that he cant even close his hand yup b---- slap it was
You forgot to mention my baldness, erectile disfunction, and prostate so huge that it take 20 minutes for me to pee on a good day. :roll:
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nem0
Mar 25, 2005, 11:36 PM
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Its not over yet...First of all, I got nuthing against you man, just very boerd and having some fun. Now, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think its applicable. Case in point...Atomic Melvin, Boone NC. Start on an incut left hand crimp, your right hand is just for balance. You do a one arm pullup off the left hand to the next right hand crimper. I could not do this problem, why? I could not pull all the way up on that left arm. Now, I would consider myself an ok climber by todays standards, having climbed both 14's...far from where I would like to be, but I guess I am not doing too bad...and I have to say that no crazy training tricks got me to where I am. With that said, I do have specific weaknesses (the one arm pull up example). So are you telling me that doing one arm pull ups on crimps will not make me better at doing one arm pull ups on crimps? Wierd. Your lingo is vauge and non-specific...but most importantly, your words are, well...words. If you had the weeknesses that I do, and you trained them using the methods I am trying, and you kept at it dilligently and got no results...then you could say those methods do not work for you and maybe they dont work in general. Have you? I understand you have studied climbing movement, but I have too. I am a climber, thats what I do...thats what we do. I know how my body works (when climbing) better than anyone else. So to me your ideas are funny. You talk about the mechanics of climbing. Climbing is not something to be quantisized and analized like some mathamatical function. It is personal...what I am trying to say is don't pretend to know anyone but yourself. With no personal disrespect, you know nothing about what works for me. Now, I would love to here your theories on climbing and training. Just don't be so quick to judge other's methods, you don't know them or where they are coming from. Soory if that doesn't make sense, I have never been very good at expressing myself. Really though, I got nuthing against you personaly...
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fjielgeit
Mar 26, 2005, 12:00 AM
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On the pull up numbers, to begin with fifteen is an OK amount whether girl or guy. In my prime right out of high school and five years of gymnastics training, and I am 50 years young now, I could do thirty and this was my peak. As I read your brief, then the responses, boy if I was in your shoes and listen to wide variety of opinion I'd be very confused. These are the questions I came up with: are you a guy or gal? Big difference in the big numbers. What's your body weight -- overweight for your frame size, average? What's your muscle to weight ration, i.e. are you naturally a strong endurance person (many reps), or a power lifter type (few reps), a natural weakling (?), or . . . I know many excillent climbers who cannot do fifteen reps, yet they pull 5.10-11-12 and up, trad and sport, because they use their balance and contact strength, and inner head might. On your technique, are you doing full length reps, or partials, pull ups or chins? I went for the full length sets, both ways on the hands but this is a debatable point as you are trying to represent real climbing which is often partial pulls. About routine, are you working two or three times a week on a constant schedual? Try varying your pull ups with fat rope climbing (good for your lats), even a Bachar Laddar used occasionally, is OK (some would disagree -- elbow problems). Also, never forget your antagonist muscles, i.e. tricepts, and supporting muscles such as deltoids and lats. One last thought, what are your goals for doing more pull ups? Do you think more pull ups will make you a better climber? Technique makes you a better climber. The mountaingoat.
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icarus_burned
Mar 26, 2005, 11:34 PM
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in what strange and seriously unusual circumstance would you ever have to roll from an open hand to a crimp? thats almost as useless an idea as a chocolate teapot
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nem0
Mar 27, 2005, 2:39 AM
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You through from a bad hold to a crimp way above on a steep wall...your feet cut and you most certainly hit the hold open hand (you never jump into a crimp, or at least I don't). I don't know about you, but I always feel better crimped than open hand, so you roll the hold to a crimp. Case in point: Circadian Rythms (Poudre Canyon CO, the first left hand), the Mandala (the first left hand that you jump too), God Module (HP 40, the first left hand you through too)...You do it all the time (or at least I do), but you probably don't know it...however some problems make this very hard (at least for me). :wink:
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kpb
Mar 27, 2005, 2:53 AM
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Don't know if it will help your climbing or not, but if your goal is to increase the number of pull ups you can do, see: http://www.cbass.com/Pavel'sLadders.htm
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anykineclimb
Mar 27, 2005, 5:59 AM
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Ladders are great. Pavel is a God when it comes to training.
here another one from him:
To do the routine first you have to find out the maximum number of reps you can do in pullups. After finding out your max, you will do a percentage of this number for your workout.
Week1
Mon test your max, 30% every 60 minutes
Tue 50% every 60 minutes
Wed 60% every 45 minutes
Thurs 25% every 60 minutes
Friday 45% every 30 minutes
Saturday 40% every 60 minutes
Sunday 20% every 90 minutes
Week2
Mon test your max again, 35% every 45 minutes
Tue 55% every 20 minutes
Wed 30% 15 minutes
Thurs 65% every 60 minutes
Friday 35% every 45 minutes
Saturday 45% every 60 minutes
Sunday 25% every 120 minutes
Week3
Test max
The routine is over, you can do it for two weeks, then do something else for another two weeks, then you can do the pullup program again.
Guidelines
Never go near failure except when testing your max
Vary reps, sets, rest periods daily
Taper down before a peak
Do the routine when you get up in the morning and your last set of pullups should be done one hour before your bedtime
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icarus_burned
Mar 27, 2005, 9:30 PM
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i have no idea about any of the climbs your talkin about nemo, but never ever can i imagine having my feet loose and having to roll from an open hand to a crimp. if youve stuck it open handed why not keep it that way? and if your having to cut loose your feet swing style then no amount of pulling up open hand to a crimp is gonna keep you attatched to the wall in my opinion. just seems like a useless concept.
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clmbr121
Mar 27, 2005, 11:15 PM
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Geriatric tendendcies nonwithsanding, I still maintain that Fluxus' pimp hand is strong.
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fluxus
Mar 28, 2005, 7:45 AM
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nem0,
thank you for another moot reply. I don't even know where to begin. Should it be by contrasting your assertion of the extreme individuality of climbing with your insistence that a certain move can only be done one way? Should I open by pointing out that there is no way you know the first thing about how your body works, and everything you write betrays this fact? Should I begin by mentioning that all movement, by definition, conforms to three little laws laid down by some guy even older than me, by the name of Newton? come on nem0, a more honest reply on your part would have been:
"YOUR'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!"
Despite the fact that it should be obvious that there is a huge difference between you not understanding a word I write and my writing being vague; we have, at last, found common ground.
In reply to: Climbing is not something to be quantisized
I don't even know what that is, but it sounds bad! And certainly like something one wouldn't want to do TO climbing, or do WHILE climbing.
I just have one request: go back to school, PLEEEEEASE go back to school.
enough said.
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clmbr121
Mar 28, 2005, 3:15 PM
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[quote="nem0"]Climbing is not something to be quantisized and analized In reply to: ...George W., is that you?
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rispo
Mar 28, 2005, 3:31 PM
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Ok so here's what works for me, I can do two consecutive one arms on each arm (without holding the wrist) and 21 pullups. I expect that you are doing this to train for climbing and are climbing on a regular basis inbetween pullup workouts. Training to get more than 15 pullups is overkill, I found that I never had to train to do a one arm, just climbing three days a week built my strength enough so that I could do it, and then I got two up and now I'm hoping to get three pretty soon. So to start I would focus more on climbing and the pullups will come eventually but it doesn't work the other way around. Another thing that is good to remember is that pullup strength isn't necessarily what will make you a better climber but rather lockoff strength. I can do one arms but my friend can't, he can lock off with one arm a hell of a lot longer than I can and he climbs wayyyy stronger than I do. I've been training by pulling all the way up holding it for 10 seconds, come down so you're elbows are at 90 degrees hold for 10 seconds, and then go down for 10s try and keep a little bend in your elbows, then pullup again and start over. You may only be able to do this twice or so but you will see definate gains in your climbing and number of pullups.
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stu73ke
Apr 2, 2005, 8:16 AM
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Hi,
Try, looking on www.dragondoor.com. It's the website of Pavel Tsatsouline. He used to train Russian Special Forces. Look for articles on Pavel's Ladder - his method of rapidly increasing reps in chins. There's other articles on chins/one arm chins worth looking at too. :D
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collegekid
Dec 26, 2006, 8:15 AM
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fluxus wrote: Here is something for all you pull-up folks to think about. Between the ages of 18 - 22 I could do about 40 pull-ups in a set on a bar. I could do 2 - 3 finger tip pull-ups with 80 extra pounds on my back. I had frequent days when I did 500 - 800 pull-ups in the course of a training session. I could do 5 one arm pull-ups. ... Have fun with your pull-ups.
And you have fun sending your hard routes. Personally, I'd rather not climb full time as you did during your peak--that's called work IMHO, except you're not getting paid for that (unless you're sponsored).
Sending hard routes, doing a lot of pullups--it's all the same--and it's all just a silly game. It's a personal game that is different for everyone--to think that the persuit of high numbers on rock, or max number of pitches, is any more impressive or relevant than any other goal is lame.
Personally, I'm training to do a one-arm pullup, and I am interested in ways of improving my pullup strength.
So, fluxus, with your experience with pullup training (and ability to surpass my personal goal of a one-armer), what is your advice in attaining improved pull-up strength, or a one-armer? Could you post a sample training routine?
I'm having trouble figuring out a good balance between volume (number of pulls) and intensity (weighted pulls).
(This post was edited by collegekid on Dec 26, 2006, 8:37 AM)
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aefavant
Dec 27, 2006, 2:17 PM
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[quote "fluxus"]Here is something for all you pull-up folks to think about.
Between the ages of 18 - 22 I could do about 40 pull-ups in a set on a bar.
I could do 2 - 3 finger tip pull-ups with 80 extra pounds on my back.
I had frequent days when I did 500 - 800 pull-ups in the course of a training session.
I could do 5 one arm pull-ups.
I could climb 5.12d - 5.13a with 4 or more days of work.
I climbed 2 - 3 days per week getting about 3 -4 pitches in a day.
between the ages of 26 - 32 when I was at my climbing peak
I could do about 18 - 20 pull ups in a set if you asked me to but it was not easy.
I never trained pull-ups at all
I could do a 1 one arm pull up if I was really, really, really, motiviated.
I climbed 3 - 5 days per week and did 10 - 20 pitches a day.
I on- sighted 5.12d over 70% of the time, and just about always did 5.13a second try.
Have fun with your pull-ups.[/quote]
Fluxus, you made me a happy old young lad [;)]
I´m 27, doing max 25, then in the next sets about 15 then 10 or less. Usually I do 3 sets of 15, 3 times per week. I do lots more pullups than the higher average, still, I would like doing one set of 40. specially now, almost 30 years old. The diference is, I climb at 5.10, 5.10a. I think i´ll go to gym-wall!!
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muttblood
Jan 17, 2007, 9:21 PM
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You guys who are doing 15-20+ pullups and trying to make 30-40 pullups have no idea how funny (silly)this discussion reads to climbers who do 1-2 pullups and would be happy if they could do 3-5 pullups! 
Just throwing in a little perspective.
Flexus has been climbing and coaching as long as I've been alive....I'd take his advice over that of an undergrad....no offense.
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Adk
Jan 20, 2007, 8:06 PM
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muttblood wrote: Just throwing in a little perspective.
Me too! It looks like you are sucking up to Flexus
JK man.
Here I go with a middle ground post. Aren't I pathetic? Rhetorical!!!! You all have valid points but what I think is being overlooked is the overall intent of pull-up training. Pull-ups don't just affect the bicepts. They help the entire upper body including the intercostals, ventral and dorsal. Think about your back muscles they help. They also help strengthen tendons. They can help your finger strength out by using different sized bars even. There are many methods and honestly in my lazy type of life I have, I have not done any pull-up training in a long time.
So I guess the question is how to you train to get better? You train just like any other strength building program. Do a search.
It's simply, strenght training. Flexus numbers of the pull-ups that he could do are not out of the norm for a workout. Though some may think 800 is amazing.
**Tangent**---Who cares!!
Heck, I spent time and more time than many in the Marine Corps and 50 pull-ups at a snatch with 20-40 lbs on our back was very common, even for littel guys.
**Glad that was quick!!**
Saying that it can't help is borderline ignorant. Is being able to do 80 pull-ups at a whip important to climbing? Obviously not. Some guys rely in their strength, others rely in technique. There is a point at which both win.
Where that is and on what particular route, I have no clue.
I have to say, this thread was fun reading from the start up to where I just posted especially on a cold blustery day that we have here.
Now, I'm going ot go do some push-ups!  --Like they are going to help!
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