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fluxus
Mar 25, 2005, 11:25 PM
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In reply to: ohh good point fluxus is clearly to old to punch hard and i bet that he has arthritis so bad from all of his years of bad training techniques that he cant even close his hand yup b---- slap it was
You forgot to mention my baldness, erectile disfunction, and prostate so huge that it take 20 minutes for me to pee on a good day. :roll:
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nem0
Mar 25, 2005, 11:36 PM
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Its not over yet...First of all, I got nuthing against you man, just very boerd and having some fun. Now, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think its applicable. Case in point...Atomic Melvin, Boone NC. Start on an incut left hand crimp, your right hand is just for balance. You do a one arm pullup off the left hand to the next right hand crimper. I could not do this problem, why? I could not pull all the way up on that left arm. Now, I would consider myself an ok climber by todays standards, having climbed both 14's...far from where I would like to be, but I guess I am not doing too bad...and I have to say that no crazy training tricks got me to where I am. With that said, I do have specific weaknesses (the one arm pull up example). So are you telling me that doing one arm pull ups on crimps will not make me better at doing one arm pull ups on crimps? Wierd. Your lingo is vauge and non-specific...but most importantly, your words are, well...words. If you had the weeknesses that I do, and you trained them using the methods I am trying, and you kept at it dilligently and got no results...then you could say those methods do not work for you and maybe they dont work in general. Have you? I understand you have studied climbing movement, but I have too. I am a climber, thats what I do...thats what we do. I know how my body works (when climbing) better than anyone else. So to me your ideas are funny. You talk about the mechanics of climbing. Climbing is not something to be quantisized and analized like some mathamatical function. It is personal...what I am trying to say is don't pretend to know anyone but yourself. With no personal disrespect, you know nothing about what works for me. Now, I would love to here your theories on climbing and training. Just don't be so quick to judge other's methods, you don't know them or where they are coming from. Soory if that doesn't make sense, I have never been very good at expressing myself. Really though, I got nuthing against you personaly...
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fjielgeit
Mar 26, 2005, 12:00 AM
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On the pull up numbers, to begin with fifteen is an OK amount whether girl or guy. In my prime right out of high school and five years of gymnastics training, and I am 50 years young now, I could do thirty and this was my peak. As I read your brief, then the responses, boy if I was in your shoes and listen to wide variety of opinion I'd be very confused. These are the questions I came up with: are you a guy or gal? Big difference in the big numbers. What's your body weight -- overweight for your frame size, average? What's your muscle to weight ration, i.e. are you naturally a strong endurance person (many reps), or a power lifter type (few reps), a natural weakling (?), or . . . I know many excillent climbers who cannot do fifteen reps, yet they pull 5.10-11-12 and up, trad and sport, because they use their balance and contact strength, and inner head might. On your technique, are you doing full length reps, or partials, pull ups or chins? I went for the full length sets, both ways on the hands but this is a debatable point as you are trying to represent real climbing which is often partial pulls. About routine, are you working two or three times a week on a constant schedual? Try varying your pull ups with fat rope climbing (good for your lats), even a Bachar Laddar used occasionally, is OK (some would disagree -- elbow problems). Also, never forget your antagonist muscles, i.e. tricepts, and supporting muscles such as deltoids and lats. One last thought, what are your goals for doing more pull ups? Do you think more pull ups will make you a better climber? Technique makes you a better climber. The mountaingoat.
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icarus_burned
Mar 26, 2005, 11:34 PM
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in what strange and seriously unusual circumstance would you ever have to roll from an open hand to a crimp? thats almost as useless an idea as a chocolate teapot
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nem0
Mar 27, 2005, 2:39 AM
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You through from a bad hold to a crimp way above on a steep wall...your feet cut and you most certainly hit the hold open hand (you never jump into a crimp, or at least I don't). I don't know about you, but I always feel better crimped than open hand, so you roll the hold to a crimp. Case in point: Circadian Rythms (Poudre Canyon CO, the first left hand), the Mandala (the first left hand that you jump too), God Module (HP 40, the first left hand you through too)...You do it all the time (or at least I do), but you probably don't know it...however some problems make this very hard (at least for me). :wink:
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kpb
Mar 27, 2005, 2:53 AM
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Don't know if it will help your climbing or not, but if your goal is to increase the number of pull ups you can do, see: http://www.cbass.com/Pavel'sLadders.htm
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anykineclimb
Mar 27, 2005, 5:59 AM
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Ladders are great. Pavel is a God when it comes to training.
here another one from him:
To do the routine first you have to find out the maximum number of reps you can do in pullups. After finding out your max, you will do a percentage of this number for your workout.
Week1
Mon test your max, 30% every 60 minutes
Tue 50% every 60 minutes
Wed 60% every 45 minutes
Thurs 25% every 60 minutes
Friday 45% every 30 minutes
Saturday 40% every 60 minutes
Sunday 20% every 90 minutes
Week2
Mon test your max again, 35% every 45 minutes
Tue 55% every 20 minutes
Wed 30% 15 minutes
Thurs 65% every 60 minutes
Friday 35% every 45 minutes
Saturday 45% every 60 minutes
Sunday 25% every 120 minutes
Week3
Test max
The routine is over, you can do it for two weeks, then do something else for another two weeks, then you can do the pullup program again.
Guidelines
Never go near failure except when testing your max
Vary reps, sets, rest periods daily
Taper down before a peak
Do the routine when you get up in the morning and your last set of pullups should be done one hour before your bedtime
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icarus_burned
Mar 27, 2005, 9:30 PM
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i have no idea about any of the climbs your talkin about nemo, but never ever can i imagine having my feet loose and having to roll from an open hand to a crimp. if youve stuck it open handed why not keep it that way? and if your having to cut loose your feet swing style then no amount of pulling up open hand to a crimp is gonna keep you attatched to the wall in my opinion. just seems like a useless concept.
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clmbr121
Mar 27, 2005, 11:15 PM
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Geriatric tendendcies nonwithsanding, I still maintain that Fluxus' pimp hand is strong.
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fluxus
Mar 28, 2005, 7:45 AM
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nem0,
thank you for another moot reply. I don't even know where to begin. Should it be by contrasting your assertion of the extreme individuality of climbing with your insistence that a certain move can only be done one way? Should I open by pointing out that there is no way you know the first thing about how your body works, and everything you write betrays this fact? Should I begin by mentioning that all movement, by definition, conforms to three little laws laid down by some guy even older than me, by the name of Newton? come on nem0, a more honest reply on your part would have been:
"YOUR'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!"
Despite the fact that it should be obvious that there is a huge difference between you not understanding a word I write and my writing being vague; we have, at last, found common ground.
In reply to: Climbing is not something to be quantisized
I don't even know what that is, but it sounds bad! And certainly like something one wouldn't want to do TO climbing, or do WHILE climbing.
I just have one request: go back to school, PLEEEEEASE go back to school.
enough said.
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clmbr121
Mar 28, 2005, 3:15 PM
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[quote="nem0"]Climbing is not something to be quantisized and analized In reply to: ...George W., is that you?
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rispo
Mar 28, 2005, 3:31 PM
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Ok so here's what works for me, I can do two consecutive one arms on each arm (without holding the wrist) and 21 pullups. I expect that you are doing this to train for climbing and are climbing on a regular basis inbetween pullup workouts. Training to get more than 15 pullups is overkill, I found that I never had to train to do a one arm, just climbing three days a week built my strength enough so that I could do it, and then I got two up and now I'm hoping to get three pretty soon. So to start I would focus more on climbing and the pullups will come eventually but it doesn't work the other way around. Another thing that is good to remember is that pullup strength isn't necessarily what will make you a better climber but rather lockoff strength. I can do one arms but my friend can't, he can lock off with one arm a hell of a lot longer than I can and he climbs wayyyy stronger than I do. I've been training by pulling all the way up holding it for 10 seconds, come down so you're elbows are at 90 degrees hold for 10 seconds, and then go down for 10s try and keep a little bend in your elbows, then pullup again and start over. You may only be able to do this twice or so but you will see definate gains in your climbing and number of pullups.
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stu73ke
Apr 2, 2005, 8:16 AM
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Hi,
Try, looking on www.dragondoor.com. It's the website of Pavel Tsatsouline. He used to train Russian Special Forces. Look for articles on Pavel's Ladder - his method of rapidly increasing reps in chins. There's other articles on chins/one arm chins worth looking at too. :D
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collegekid
Dec 26, 2006, 8:15 AM
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fluxus wrote: Here is something for all you pull-up folks to think about. Between the ages of 18 - 22 I could do about 40 pull-ups in a set on a bar. I could do 2 - 3 finger tip pull-ups with 80 extra pounds on my back. I had frequent days when I did 500 - 800 pull-ups in the course of a training session. I could do 5 one arm pull-ups. ... Have fun with your pull-ups.
And you have fun sending your hard routes. Personally, I'd rather not climb full time as you did during your peak--that's called work IMHO, except you're not getting paid for that (unless you're sponsored).
Sending hard routes, doing a lot of pullups--it's all the same--and it's all just a silly game. It's a personal game that is different for everyone--to think that the persuit of high numbers on rock, or max number of pitches, is any more impressive or relevant than any other goal is lame.
Personally, I'm training to do a one-arm pullup, and I am interested in ways of improving my pullup strength.
So, fluxus, with your experience with pullup training (and ability to surpass my personal goal of a one-armer), what is your advice in attaining improved pull-up strength, or a one-armer? Could you post a sample training routine?
I'm having trouble figuring out a good balance between volume (number of pulls) and intensity (weighted pulls).
(This post was edited by collegekid on Dec 26, 2006, 8:37 AM)
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aefavant
Dec 27, 2006, 2:17 PM
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[quote "fluxus"]Here is something for all you pull-up folks to think about.
Between the ages of 18 - 22 I could do about 40 pull-ups in a set on a bar.
I could do 2 - 3 finger tip pull-ups with 80 extra pounds on my back.
I had frequent days when I did 500 - 800 pull-ups in the course of a training session.
I could do 5 one arm pull-ups.
I could climb 5.12d - 5.13a with 4 or more days of work.
I climbed 2 - 3 days per week getting about 3 -4 pitches in a day.
between the ages of 26 - 32 when I was at my climbing peak
I could do about 18 - 20 pull ups in a set if you asked me to but it was not easy.
I never trained pull-ups at all
I could do a 1 one arm pull up if I was really, really, really, motiviated.
I climbed 3 - 5 days per week and did 10 - 20 pitches a day.
I on- sighted 5.12d over 70% of the time, and just about always did 5.13a second try.
Have fun with your pull-ups.[/quote]
Fluxus, you made me a happy old young lad [;)]
I´m 27, doing max 25, then in the next sets about 15 then 10 or less. Usually I do 3 sets of 15, 3 times per week. I do lots more pullups than the higher average, still, I would like doing one set of 40. specially now, almost 30 years old. The diference is, I climb at 5.10, 5.10a. I think i´ll go to gym-wall!!
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muttblood
Jan 17, 2007, 9:21 PM
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You guys who are doing 15-20+ pullups and trying to make 30-40 pullups have no idea how funny (silly)this discussion reads to climbers who do 1-2 pullups and would be happy if they could do 3-5 pullups! 
Just throwing in a little perspective.
Flexus has been climbing and coaching as long as I've been alive....I'd take his advice over that of an undergrad....no offense.
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Adk
Jan 20, 2007, 8:06 PM
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muttblood wrote: Just throwing in a little perspective.
Me too! It looks like you are sucking up to Flexus
JK man.
Here I go with a middle ground post. Aren't I pathetic? Rhetorical!!!! You all have valid points but what I think is being overlooked is the overall intent of pull-up training. Pull-ups don't just affect the bicepts. They help the entire upper body including the intercostals, ventral and dorsal. Think about your back muscles they help. They also help strengthen tendons. They can help your finger strength out by using different sized bars even. There are many methods and honestly in my lazy type of life I have, I have not done any pull-up training in a long time.
So I guess the question is how to you train to get better? You train just like any other strength building program. Do a search.
It's simply, strenght training. Flexus numbers of the pull-ups that he could do are not out of the norm for a workout. Though some may think 800 is amazing.
**Tangent**---Who cares!!
Heck, I spent time and more time than many in the Marine Corps and 50 pull-ups at a snatch with 20-40 lbs on our back was very common, even for littel guys.
**Glad that was quick!!**
Saying that it can't help is borderline ignorant. Is being able to do 80 pull-ups at a whip important to climbing? Obviously not. Some guys rely in their strength, others rely in technique. There is a point at which both win.
Where that is and on what particular route, I have no clue.
I have to say, this thread was fun reading from the start up to where I just posted especially on a cold blustery day that we have here.
Now, I'm going ot go do some push-ups!  --Like they are going to help!
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