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caughtinside
Nov 3, 2005, 6:40 PM
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Haven't done it yet. (furiously knocking on wood)
But I've come close a couple times. The funny thing is, I had always kind of assumed that it would be easier to fix a smaller cam than a big one, because there's so much more expansion range in the larger cams. I even made fun of fshizzle when he fixed maculated's #4 camalot. :P
But the last couple climbs I've been on, I came perilously close to fixing my #4 and #5 BD (wide stuff, *shudder*)
I think I have a tendency on that wider stuff to pull back the trigger all the way, and just fire that sucker into a big crack, preferably as far over my head as possible. I think I tend to be more comfortable on more 'regular' sized cracks, and put more thought into placing cams, as opposed to just stuffing them.
Anyway, I had a couple nervous moments, and had to bash the #4 out with the side of my hand.
I don't know, I guess I should be more careful, and not pull the trigger all the way and just plunge it till it fits. But man I feel insecure on the wide cracks!
Any thoughts?
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mcfoley
Nov 3, 2005, 6:47 PM
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I got a LT Blue Metolius Power cam stuck out at j-tree.
I was hang doging on it and it walked way back...my friend, cleaning couldn't get it out.
So we rapped down and tried to work it out...NO WAY...Only way that piece was comming home with me was in pieces.
I'll have to go check next sunday to see if anyone got it out....?
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horseonwheels
Nov 3, 2005, 6:49 PM
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I also have a tedency to overcam my larger units as compared to my smaller ones. Also, the larger cams have more play in the lobes (less spring tension) making them more likely to walk and get stuck. While I've never lost a cam, I do notice that most of the fixed ones I see are in hand sizes. Maybe that's just because those get placed more often...who knows.
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korntera
Nov 3, 2005, 6:51 PM
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At carver cliffs in Clackamas there is a #2 Rock Empire stuck in the crack. I didn't get it there but it is not only more overcamed that you can pull it with the action, but somebody cut the sling off of it and its 2" inside a 1.5" crack that is super deep.
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korntera
Nov 3, 2005, 6:53 PM
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At carver cliffs in Clackamas there is a #2 Rock Empire stuck in the crack. I didn't get it there but it is not only more overcamed that you can pull it with the action, but somebody cut the sling off of it and its 2" inside a 1.5" crack that is super deep.
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vegastradguy
Nov 3, 2005, 7:14 PM
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me, i'm always testing the skills of my seconds with my green and blue aliens- mostly because it always seems that i'm most sketched when i'm on the thin stuff. havent gotten one stuck yet, but have had a couple of close calls. one time neither of my seconds could retrieve the cam, but the leader of the party behind us retrieved it quickly!
i've never really had a problem on the wide stuff, myself- i'm pretty comfy from hands to chimney sizes for the most part (well, up to my limit anyway...) although i'm sure there's more than a few offwidths out there that would eat me alive!
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blakester
Nov 3, 2005, 7:19 PM
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I got a #4 (orange) rock empire cam stuck, after using it as part of an equalized belay anchor! we came back the next week with a hammer and funkness device, pounded away on that thing, and STILL could not get it! We rapped off of the dang thing and went home. :lol:
I'd rather get a cam stuck than just forget it at a belay changeover somwhere (that happened too)
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joshy8200
Nov 3, 2005, 7:32 PM
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In reply to: But the last couple climbs I've been on, I came perilously close to fixing my #4 and #5 BD (wide stuff, *shudder*) I think I have a tendency on that wider stuff to pull back the trigger all the way, and just fire that sucker into a big crack, preferably as far over my head as possible. I think I tend to be more comfortable on more 'regular' sized cracks, and put more thought into placing cams, as opposed to just stuffing them.
You've pin pointed the problem. Now...tell me what routes you're going to be doing. I'll gladly come work on those big cams you get stuck. :twisted:
A buddy of mine is notorious for overcamming. The key to getting them unstuck...is working the cam back out slowly. If your cams are walking into positions that get them stuck...you can be more aware of your placements and find placements that will limit the cam from walking. And I looked for the old Climbing tech tip that showed some diagrams about retrieving stuck gear...but there is no longer a link. It just showed how to use your nut tool and the wire loop of a nut to reach out of reach cam triggers...showed using a nut tool to moved fixed cam lobes. In other words, sometimes you just have to be patient and creative.
Ohh...and let us all know where you get those cams stuck :wink:
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davidji
Nov 3, 2005, 7:40 PM
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In reply to: Any thoughts?
For myself, I'm thinking of carrying a heavier nut tool, at least for harder climbs where leader is more likely to weld-in gear. He may not want that piece back after though! I've got a lost arrow that's about as long as my old Wild Country Nut Pick, a little shorter than my USHBA nut tool. And weighs more than both put together. It's got a nut-tool-like notch near the tip too. If it's not too short, it should do the job.
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markc
Nov 3, 2005, 8:31 PM
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There were only a couple rules pounded into my head when I started seconding. The first was figure out how a piece went in before trying to take it out. The second was to never fully retract a cam (either for placing or removing). If it's fully retracted and you stick it, you're going to have a hell of a time getting it out.
Luckily, with some larger cams there's more play in the lobes than you can pull with the trigger. Larger cracks are also more accepting of nut tools, so you can get in behind those lobes and try to work it back out. I'm still not great at getting booty cams, but I've only lost one very small unit. It was one of the Rock Empire micro-robots, and there was only one lobe that allowed any movement. I considered the effort to clean it too great compared to the cost of replacement. Someone's mileage obviously varied, as it was gone on my next trip.
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markc
Nov 3, 2005, 9:33 PM
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In reply to: A buddy of mine is notorious for overcamming.
As is a partner of mine. He gets the most confidence from the largest cam placed in the smallest constriction. It can be frustrating to say the least. Unfortunately, frustration rarely assists with cleaning stuck cams. It's generally patience and persistence that wins the day. When I reach the belay, I make it a point to say things like, "We sure were lucky to get that last cam out. Sucker barely moved when I squeezed the trigger!"
Still, when I'm on lead it's my job to keep myself safe. It's the second's job to clean the gear. I try to make things relatively easy, but if I'm gripped and she comes up to a tight cam or stuck nut, she can take a hang to clean. I'll feel guilty, but not too guilty.
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gullwing19
Nov 3, 2005, 10:12 PM
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my suggestion is to learn how to place pro. Continuously overcamming your cams when you place them is a beginner mistake made when you think that the more cammed a unit is...the better hold.
I actually love it when you guys do this because they're usually not that hard to remove. A little elbow grease and some bloody knuckles have scored me more than a few cams in my days. I guess I should say thanks.
All praise to the gear gods.
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brent_e
Nov 3, 2005, 10:27 PM
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i've had a 3/4 DMM walk back (not slung long enough.....one of the first few routes I climbed). It took some time, but I got it out!
same day, same route, a buddy brabbed a friend (13/4) and just stuffed.....immediately stuck. I used an ice tool to get that one out...it's a little worn but, of course, not in the usable range.
Brent
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caughtinside
Nov 3, 2005, 11:17 PM
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In reply to: my suggestion is to learn how to place pro. Continuously overcamming your cams when you place them is a beginner mistake made when you think that the more cammed a unit is...the better hold.
Hey, thanks for the tip. Here's one for you: learn to read a whole post before responding. :D
I pointed out that it was only with my larger cams, which I think stems from my discomfort in, and lack of wide crack technique.
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dirtineye
Nov 4, 2005, 12:26 AM
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In reply to: my suggestion is to learn how to place pro. Continuously overcamming your cams when you place them is a beginner mistake made when you think that the more cammed a unit is...the better hold. I actually love it when you guys do this because they're usually not that hard to remove. A little elbow grease and some bloody knuckles have scored me more than a few cams in my days. I guess I should say thanks. All praise to the gear gods.
Moron alert.
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striker
Nov 4, 2005, 12:40 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: my suggestion is to learn how to place pro. Continuously overcamming your cams when you place them is a beginner mistake made when you think that the more cammed a unit is...the better hold. I actually love it when you guys do this because they're usually not that hard to remove. A little elbow grease and some bloody knuckles have scored me more than a few cams in my days. I guess I should say thanks. All praise to the gear gods. Moron alert.
I will also refer to caughtinside's original post.
"I think I have a tendency on that wider stuff to pull back the trigger all the way, and just fire that sucker into a big crack, preferably as far over my head as possible. I think I tend to be more comfortable on more 'regular' sized cracks, and put more thought into placing cams, as opposed to just stuffing them. "
while it really sucks to over cam, it is usually because of an inablility to use it properly. it is unnecessary and demeaning to call somebody a moron because they make a valid point, which, is to the benifit of many RC viewers.
gullwing19's point is valid. if your placing your gear as far above your head as you can, will it be a bomber placement? could you get a even better placement at eye level even though you may be sacrificing and adding an extra 2-2 1/2 feet to your fall?
aaron
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petsfed
Nov 4, 2005, 1:36 AM
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The only cams I've left behind are the ones fixed by previous parties (although I did retrieve a 3.5 camalot that was dropped into an offwidth from above) and my practically brand new Z5 Zero cam. I lost it in (get this) Fantasia out at Vedauwoo. Its not fixed, per se, but its still out there. And one of these days I'm going to plumb the depths and retrieve it.
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caughtinside
Nov 4, 2005, 1:37 AM
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In reply to: I will also refer to caughtinside's original post. "I think I have a tendency on that wider stuff to pull back the trigger all the way, and just fire that sucker into a big crack, preferably as far over my head as possible"
Well, if you're going to refer to my original post, why don't you at least post the whole quote? You posted my description of the situation, and ignored the subsequent sentence, where I did some analysis of that situation, and replaced it with some highly speculative analysis of your own.
You and mr. gullwing seem to have a tough time with reading comprehension.
Stuck cams? Yer doin' it wrong! seems to be the extent of your analysis. Why don't you do us a favor and take time to read the entire post before you reply. Thank you. 8^)
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striker
Nov 4, 2005, 1:40 AM
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hey, no need to get angry, no wonder the world is full of hate.
besides, why don't we just let all the viewers look at your original post and judge for themselves.
my point is made
aaron
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caughtinside
Nov 4, 2005, 2:13 AM
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Your point is made? Let me tell you a little about my point:
I started this post because I noticed a shortcoming I had with regard to placing larger cams. Not small cams. Not medium cams.
For some strange reason, (like to generate a discussion about climbing) I posted about my difficulties with overcamming the large cams. I also mentioned that I did it because of certain issues I have with large cracks. I don't like them. I'm not good at climbing them. I know what my problem is, is that I am not usually confident in my stance while I'm placing larger cams, so I tend towards a nervousness-driven overcamming.
This doesn't happen every time I place large cams, just when I'm not comfortable.
So when guys like you and gullwing make a generic comment like "learn to place pro properly" it doesn't help at all, and tells me you didn't even understand what I'm talking about. So I decline to respect your comments on the issue.
I suppose I am not even looking for advice or suggestions, as I know what I'm doing incorrectly, and what I need to do to fix it. I just happen to take umbrage when people miss the point completely and tell me I'm making a beginner mistake. Thanks for the tip. Sheesh.
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stymingersfink
Nov 4, 2005, 2:17 AM
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In reply to: Haven't done it yet. (furiously knocking on wood)
Any thoughts?
Yeah, a few. I wish more people would get the buggers stuck and walk away before they trash them completely. There's (nearly) nothing more satisfying than pulling a fixed cam out and being able to clip it to your rack (after inspecting it of course) for use on the next pitch.
BUUUT, if you're going to fix 'em, go ahead and fix 'em good, just don't trash the clip in point.
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gunkiemike
Nov 4, 2005, 2:32 AM
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OK, who's retrieved more cams than they have stuck?
I have never fixed a cam, but have removed 11 so far*, the most recent being just last week. There are a few tricks, but mostly it's just being careful and patient as you reverse the way it went in, one lobe tweak at a time.
* 12 actually, but that old Friend was busted and came out useless for anything but hanging on the wall.
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iltripp
Nov 4, 2005, 2:36 AM
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I've never gotten one stuck either, but I've come closest with my bigger cams. It seems to me that the big ones tend to walk a little more than the little guys. Maybe it's just the way that I'm placing them...
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davidji
Nov 4, 2005, 10:54 PM
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Dave,
You've sure never had a problem with welding in cams when we've climbed together. The way you've described this issue, I expect you've solved it. I guess I'd rather not find out though: I'm so not in the mood to climb wide stuff. Maybe after I forget my last wide climb...
Walking cams up on the big stuff is comforting, as long as you have some gear to leave behind--moving up a critical piece is dicey. Got Bros?
David G
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 5, 2005, 12:00 AM
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It dosen't matter how angy you guys get it still dosen't change the facts. Getting cams stuck and retrieveing them is mostly a skill issue. they get stuck because they are either placed improperly, don't hane a long enough sling on them which causes walking or they get stuck because your second is incompetent. You may not like this but like many politicaly incorect statements it has a lot of truth. In 23 years of climbing 100% of the times that my second has not been able to clean a piece that I placed If i was able to rap back down to the piece I cleaned it. 90% of the time I cleaned it quickly. Suck it up and learn how to place/clean gear 8^)
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tradrenn
Nov 5, 2005, 12:08 AM
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Couple months ago I got my cam stack on one of the climbs at Gunks.
Guy named Mat went up after me and clean it for me.
( Thanks man )
His trick was to use two nut tools.
( It cost me a 6 pack, cheaper then a cam for sure and I was glad to do it)
I tried his way later on when I got my cam stuck at the local crag and it works. I cleaned my cam on rappel and pull one side of cam at the time. ( I walked it backwards )
8^)
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 1:18 AM
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moron alert?
ha ha ....that made me chuckle. If pulling all of your "fixed" cams out cause your too much of a....well....moron...to learn how to place them correctly.....then I'm guilty as charged. Oh and by the way....I don't think I've ever rescued a cam that was smaller than a #2 camalot. It's consitantly the big stuff that I see fixed.
Once again, thanks.
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 1:26 AM
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Isn't it also funny when someone asks advice (caughtinsideorwhatever) and then gets all bent out of shape when they get some constructive criticism that implies a slight lack of skill?
If you get your cams stuck you need to learn how to place them better. End of story. It's kinda simple if you ask me. But go ahead and get all heated because someone questions your pro placing skill.
If you knew the answer and you're such a great climber then why did you post the original post in the first place. Internet posting boards are funny like that I guess.
Can I say it again? LEARN TO PLACE GEAR PROPERLY AND YOU WONT HAVE THIS PROBLEM
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gunksgoer
Nov 5, 2005, 1:37 AM
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The only cam ive ever fixed was a crappy trango flexcam that i got used for like 20 bucks. Oh but its not fixed on a climb, its fixed in the rafters in a room of my house. What a piece.
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 3:17 AM
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Well Caughtinside,
You've got me. You asked a question that you already knew the answer to. And expected us all to .....well i'm not quite sure. Let me just rephrase your original question if you don't mind, for the purpose of making things a little easier.
"Um guys, yeah, um I get a little nervous when I climb something hard and so when I place pro I fumble around, swear alot, and over cam my cams. What should I do?"
Can you see the reason for my simple response? Yes, in one of my posts I basically said "doing it wrong?..well do it right!" Because it's kinda that simple.
In a wide crack you have many options:
1. Climb more wide routes to gain more confidence with that technique
2. Place pro that you can see. I don't think I've ever reached WAY above my head and blindly placed a cam. For gods sake climb up to the placement or place it lower down where you can make sure it's butta.
3. (reverting back to my original post) Just learn to place pro correctly. You already know what you're doing wrong and what you need to do to do it right. The next logical step would be to do it right. Don't you agree?
Am I missing something here? Or are you just a post whore who likes to ramble?
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caughtinside
Nov 5, 2005, 3:55 AM
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In reply to: Isn't it also funny when someone asks advice (caughtinsideorwhatever) and then gets all bent out of shape when they get some constructive criticism that implies a slight lack of skill? If you get your cams stuck you need to learn how to place them better. End of story. It's kinda simple if you ask me. But go ahead and get all heated because someone questions your pro placing skill. If you knew the answer and you're such a great climber then why did you post the original post in the first place. Internet posting boards are funny like that I guess. Can I say it again? LEARN TO PLACE GEAR PROPERLY AND YOU WONT HAVE THIS PROBLEM
Hey, look who likes to post before they finished reading the thread! :)
You see, your last post was informative. The rest missed the point.
And yeah, I did 'already know the answer.' It wasn't really much of a question. I posted about my recent experience with wide cracks, seeking to prompt a discussion.
And got a lot of "learn to place pro properly" in response.
WHat a waste of time! :D
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 4:47 AM
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"any thoughts?" was the last line on your original post.
That doesn't look like a rhetorical question to me. Jokes on me i guess...I thought you were looking for opinions / advice / answers / whatever. You don't want peoples two cents? Don't ask for it. Once again, kinda simple don't you think?
You should really learn not only to place pro but to play nice also. I thought that would have been something your mommy should have taught you from an early age but I guess you missed out on that lesson. When I see her tonight I'll be sure to tell her shes been a bad, bad girl.
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 4:15 PM
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C'mon Caughtinside.....no retort?
I gave you a valid point in my initial response and you were a dick about it. And damnit I'm calling you out on it.
Are you just an internet post whore who finds satisfaction by beginning threads that apparently have no real purpose in an attempt to stroke your own feeble and waning ego?
Or is it maybe that your just a dick?
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 4:35 PM
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Holy S&%$!!
I just did a little research you post whore. 3,470 posts to date and you've been a member exactly 2 years and 1 day. Lets do the math cause to tell you the truth....I don't see any free time for climbing. Here we go, try your best to follow along:
3,470 posts / 731 days = 4.7 posts per day, EVERY day for two years.
It is becoming a little more clear to me now.
I would you like to apologize for being a dick. That is all and then I'll stop. I am rather enjoying this little tiff however I'm prepared to throw sand in each others faces all you want. When it comes down to it, I WILL be the last kid in the sandbox and you'll be the crying little bitch that you are.
Now...I'm waiting.........
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 4:37 PM
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Holy S&%$!!
I just did a little research you post whore. 3,470 posts to date and you've been a member exactly 2 years and 1 day. Lets do the math cause to tell you the truth....I don't see any free time for climbing. Here we go, try your best to follow along:
3,470 posts / 731 days = 4.7 posts per day, EVERY day for two years.
It is becoming a little more clear to me now.
I would you like to apologize for being a dick. That is all and then I'll stop. I am rather enjoying this little tiff however I'm prepared to throw sand in each others faces all you want. When it comes down to it, I WILL be the last kid in the sandbox and you'll be the crying little bitch that you are.
Now...I'm waiting.........
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dirtineye
Nov 5, 2005, 5:16 PM
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Hey Caughtinzipper, about the only good advice (for NOT getting cams stuck) I've seen in this thread so far is that when you place cams in a panic, you can lose em. So don't do that.
Here's one more bit.
When you place a cam, retract the triggers ALMOST as far as they will go, place the cam, and do NOT push it in any further than the ALMOST fully retracted lobes will allow.
Pushing a cam in hastily (as opposed to placing it carefully and feeling for the lobes to touch) leads to trouble. This is often what happens in a panic, but then I think you know that already.
General delicacy when placing cams, knowing what leads to walking (flares and tapers among other things), longer slings, a good second and a few other things have already been covered.
I never had a problem getting large cams stuck, but then I don't slide em up cracks either.
I think I'd just ignore gullwing.
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boltdude
Nov 5, 2005, 5:48 PM
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A big cause of very stuck cams (often the sort that no one will ever get out) is having the cams pulled into the crack by the rope. It can easily happen when a crack goes lower angle at the top, or if the crack is inset at an angle. With experience (or just by thinking about it while you climb), you can often spot these problem spots and place cams in the correct places, and/or use long slings and flip the rope to the side of the crack (especially useful on the last pro placements on a crack just before it tops out).
As far as number of cams retrieved - yesterday I bootied my 40th cam. In all fairness, about half were not "stuck" cams, but left as retreat anchors, to back up really bad anchors, etc. And 4 or 5 of those were trashed beyond even aid use.
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saxfiend
Nov 5, 2005, 5:55 PM
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In reply to: I would you like to apologize for being a dick. That is all and then I'll stop. I am rather enjoying this little tiff however I'm prepared to throw sand in each others faces all you want. When it comes down to it, I WILL be the last kid in the sandbox and you'll be the crying little b---- that you are. Now...I'm waiting......... In reply to: C'mon Caughtinside.....no retort? In reply to: You should really learn not only to place pro but to play nice also. I thought that would have been something your mommy should have taught you from an early age but I guess you missed out on that lesson. When I see her tonight I'll be sure to tell her shes been a bad, bad girl.
The simple fact is that you could have avoided this pissing match if you hadn't given such a patronizing initial response. Nobody likes being told they're making a "beginner mistake," especially by someone whose own experience level is unknown (nothing in your profile, I see). Read the post by dirtineye for an example of a mature and helpful response. Of course, your posts make it clear that you didn't care about being helpful, and they certainly aren't mature.
Take several deep breaths and let it go.
JL
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 5:55 PM
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Hey!!! Who is deleting my posts? WTF is that all about?
Are there some censorship nazis here?
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 6:12 PM
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Yes. Maybe it is a bit personal. I'm tired of people getting on here being pricks like that because they can hide behind a computer screen. I guarantee you that he wouldn't have said something like that to me in person....than why say it here?
Of course no one likes being told that they are making a beginner mistake, myself included, but we all make them. This came down to a dick that couldn't take constructive criticism, admittedly the criticism was a bit patronizing, but once again sum up his original post and you'll see that he knows what his problem is...he knows what causes the problem...and he knows how to correct the problem. And then he asks for advice?
Then what was the purpose of the original post? Of course someone was going to point out that.....um....doing it correctly (like his delicious mommy does) would be his next logical step.
It was obvious that he only wanted someone to agree with him and he took shots at the first person who rubbed him wrong.
As far as my skill level goes.......I've never got a cam stuck in 10 years of placing em. That should be all you need to know.
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 6:19 PM
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And Sax,
If you wouldn't mind reading dirtineyeorwhaters first post on the subject you will find that it said nothing other than "moron alert" with my initial post quoted.
Tell me how that is either mature or helpful?
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iltripp
Nov 5, 2005, 6:26 PM
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In reply to: Yes. Maybe it is a bit personal. I'm tired of people getting on here being pricks like that because they can hide behind a computer screen. I guarantee you that he wouldn't have said something like that to me in person....than why say it here?
Please go back and re-read the posts on the past two pages. For accusing someone of being a dick, you don't have much to stand on...
Who is hiding behind a computer screen?
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 7:24 PM
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Oh I'm the biggest dick you'll ever meet my friend. I wholeheartedly agree with you on that one.
Difference is I don't start things. My initial post was curt and to the point and I was called a moron because of it? And nobody, I mean nobody questions my reading ability. That's where I draw the line.
All I wanted was a simple apology.
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iltripp
Nov 5, 2005, 7:29 PM
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In reply to: Oh I'm the biggest dick you'll ever meet my friend. I wholeheartedly agree with you on that one. Difference is I don't start things. My initial post was curt and to the point and I was called a moron because of it? And nobody, I mean nobody questions my reading ability. That's where I draw the line.
:roll: Tough guy, huh? :roll:
In reply to: All I wanted was a simple apology.
I wouldn't hold your breath...
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gullwing19
Nov 5, 2005, 7:42 PM
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I never claimed to be tough, only to be a dick. If something needs to be said, I'll say it. And no I'm not going to hold my breath.
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dirtineye
Nov 5, 2005, 8:07 PM
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The moron alert has gone from an alert to a warning.
PS whining for an apology on the internet is bad form.
PPS I called you a moron because you made a moronic post. MANY climbers with far more experience and FA route credit than you have prefer cams that are as 'over-cammed' as they can be and still be gotten back out. More than one such climber will tell you that there is no such thing as over-cammed, unles the cam becomes fixed.
DOH, I should take my own advice.
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caughtinside
Nov 5, 2005, 9:02 PM
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In reply to: but once again sum up his original post and you'll see that he knows what his problem is...he knows what causes the problem...and he knows how to correct the problem. And then he asks for advice?
Gullwing, I addressed this big issue of yours at least twice in this thread.
And you're right, nobody did question your reading ability. I questioned your reading comprehension. And I still do, because you paint yourself as more of a fucking idiot with each post you make.
Keep going, it's pretty pathetic. Are you actually making mommy jokes now?
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pk
Nov 5, 2005, 9:30 PM
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In reply to: All I wanted was a simple apology.
Suck it up buttercup.
P.K.
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tradrenn
Nov 8, 2005, 2:56 AM
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In reply to: Yes. Maybe it is a bit personal. I'm tired of people getting on here being pricks like that because they can hide behind a computer screen. I guarantee you that he wouldn't have said something like that to me in person....than why say it here?
And I hate dickheads like you.
At this moment I'm being a prick just like you, but I'm a prick only to you "Dear Dickhead", cause the only person that is hiding behind a computer screen is YOU.
C'mon Dear Dickhead, be brave show us where you live, like most of us do. Are you chicken or what ?
Wait.
You are afraid that someone will kick your ass for posting bunch of crap on the net, aren't ya?
Loser, where is your profile ?
Oops I'm so sorry I forgot that Dickheads don't have one.
I also hope that I hurt your feelings, if you have any.
In reply to: As far as my skill level goes.......I've never got a cam stuck in 10 years of placing em. That should be all you need to know.
I didn't know that Dickheads can be this smart.
8^)
P.S. Spraying is not cool wo/man, whatever you are.
Good Day Dear Dickhead.
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lajhanata
Nov 8, 2005, 3:55 AM
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Seems to me that most of the booty cams I get are little single axle buggers. I've never scored a big piece like a 3.5 or 4 camalot- never even seen one. Mine are always things like a .5 Friend from 1991 with a faded leash and lots of dents in it from other people banging on it.
That said, maybe you have the same problem I have in the big sizes. Mondo cams ain't cheap, and I don't place them that often, thus I don't have very many. In fact, I've got one 3, one 3.5, and one 4.5 camalot- that's it. So when I'm exuding frictionless slime from every poor in my body, I'm smearing on dime-thick crumble-flakes, I've already plugged the 3.5 a few meters down, and I REALLY need another 3.5, guess what I do. I crank that 4.5 down past where the cable attaches to thumb spot and MAKE that heavy bastard fit. In this case, the 4.5 is on it's way to becoming an antique anyway, so I don't cry about it. I haven't lost it yet, but you get the idea. Maybe filling out your rack in the big sizes would make you placements better.
Of course, maybe it's just more booty for the rest of us.
Personally, I think it's easier to get big pieces out because I can get my hand in there and fiddle. I think a lot of failed retrieval is the cause of frustration and when you start to find it hard to see the cam lobes because of the glare off the blood streaks you just left, that's a little frustrating. Usually that's not as much of a problem on the wide stuff.
From what people are saying about the frequency of big cams getting stuck, I'll slate a few off-widths for this weekend. If anybody's having trouble with their number 4, don't ruin your day fighting it for twenty minutes. Plenty of us out there will appreciate it.
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bobruef
Nov 9, 2005, 3:20 PM
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caughtinside-
are you getting in another squable?
-Bob 8^)
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lewisiarediviva
Nov 10, 2005, 2:54 AM
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In reply to: 3,470 posts / 731 days = 4.7 posts per day, EVERY day for two years. .......
Hmmm. Maybe takes an hour a day. So that is 731 hours out of what (731x23) 16813 hours left to climb and kayak and sleep and such.
Really, this portion of this thread is lame- but I saw math that I understood, I had to respond.
Cams getting stuck. I have found that when I place a cam, and decided to remove it- I actually expect it to be removed easier than I would expect a nut to be removed. So when it doesn't come out I get all in a huff and it knows that I am not happy with it so it just stays put like a naughty puppy. But that, to this point in my life, is so far my only issue with them.
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granite_grrl
Nov 10, 2005, 11:59 AM
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One of my worse habits for placing cams is that I like them to be fairly deep in a crack. Eventually I'm going to have one of these walk far deep into a crack, never to be seen again.
The other posibility is that my larger hand partners will be forced to take out their nut tools, poking and proding trying to latch the trigger properly and break a trigger wire or two.
I've been climbing with my boyfriend a lot lately and he has massive hands. I've been trying to place them so they're easier to retreive if only so I don't have to hear him curse me out. But sometimes that nice deep placed cam is so reassuring......
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caughtinside
Nov 11, 2005, 2:21 AM
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Status/spray:
I have climbed the last 4 days in JTree, and have fixed no cams. Further updates to come.
:P
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esoteric1
Nov 11, 2005, 2:40 AM
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4 days and no booty in josh?
ive pulled 300 bucks worth of gear out of tahquits in a season, i dont question it. hell, i pulled a cam out of a ground route that had been there for weeks....
leave em if ya can afford em....
mark
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angry
Nov 11, 2005, 3:33 AM
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Gullshit19, how long have you been climbing?
How hard do you climb?
How recently have you climbed a hard offwidth?
Do you think for one second you are a better climber than Caughtinsideplanningoutmoregridboltedroutes? Are you that much better of a climber that you can freely dis him?
How about this? I've onsighted 5.12 offwidths. I've soloed wide cracks that'd make you cry. I went through puberty with stacked fists. And I am the very person Caughtintoulomnewithsomereligiousfanatickid mentioned that fixed a cam on a 5.6!
Believe it, nobody here is perfect.
And now some helpful advice. On granite or anything less than parallel, try to leapfrog or remove and place higher. Yeah, it's spooky at times but sliding a cam up and into constrictions is probably the best way to fix a cam.
Place the cam shallow and run a sling on it so the rope stays outside the crack. It won't be as easy to fuck up with your foot.
Big Bros - Sorry I couldn't resist adding that one. But if used correctly they go in pretty easily and they never eat a rope.
Don't place the cam when you are all stressed out. Try to do 2 more moves and get stable before you place. Don't worry about the "run out", those extra moves probably only equals a couple inches in the offwidth realm.
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gullwing19
Nov 11, 2005, 3:47 AM
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tradren.....I heard that in poland little kids go up to the Americans and with puppy dog eyes ask them if we really make fun of them back in the States.
Maybe all of your hostility towards someone you don't even know stems only from our multi-national relationship as joke teller and the respective butt of.
Ah hell. I feel bad for laughing, but it's only funny cause it's true.
And as far as questioning my skill level tradren why don't you criticize me after you start leading harder than 5.7. It IS an impressive list of 5.6 and below however. Lots of good beginner routes.
Supa dupa!
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angry
Nov 11, 2005, 3:53 AM
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In reply to: And as far as questioning my skill level tradren why don't you criticize me after you start leading harder than 5.7. It IS an impressive list of 5.6 and below however. Lots of good beginner routes. Supa dupa!
Dis me, I mother fucking dare you!!! C'mon, tell me how I can't climb anything, especially wide. Do it, do it, do it.
Caughtchippingholds, I got your back!!
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gullwing19
Nov 11, 2005, 4:00 AM
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HAHA dude, Angry...that was all for Tradrenn...but since you were wondering......
I climb about a solid 5.9....dipping into the 10.a / b gear stuff. Props on climbing 5.12 offwidth. That's gotta be some nightmarish stuff.
I try to climb at least twice a week and yes, I did climb today. Nice cruise up three pitches of beautiful 5.7 granite hand cracks.
As for offwidth, I climbed a nice 5.8 pitch of offwidth just last week. Didn't even get a cam stuck or nuthin. Oh, and I've been climbing bout 6 years now an NO, I never said I was better than Caughtinsideorwhatever.
Hope that answered your questions!
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tradrenn
Nov 11, 2005, 4:26 AM
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Po pierwsze to nie "Supa dupa" tylko jezeli juz musisz no to "Super dupa"
Jak kurwa nie znasz polskiego to sie kurwa nie odzywaj, ok dupku.
A jak jestes Polak to powinienes miec jaja i ujawnic sie.
Sie ma
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iltripp
Nov 11, 2005, 4:32 AM
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In reply to: tradren.....I heard that in poland little kids go up to the Americans and with puppy dog eyes ask them if we really make fun of them back in the States. Maybe all of your hostility towards someone you don't even know stems only from our multi-national relationship as joke teller and the respective butt of. Ah hell. I feel bad for laughing, but it's only funny cause it's true.
Yeah... ethnic slurs are cool...
fvcktard
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tradrenn
Nov 11, 2005, 4:52 AM
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In reply to: tradren.....I heard that in poland little kids go up to the Americans and with puppy dog eyes ask them if we really make fun of them back in the States. Maybe all of your hostility towards someone you don't even know stems only from our multi-national relationship as joke teller and the respective butt of. Ah hell. I feel bad for laughing, but it's only funny cause it's true. And as far as questioning my skill level tradren why don't you criticize me after you start leading harder than 5.7. It IS an impressive list of 5.6 and below however. Lots of good beginner routes. Supa dupa!
From my last post, my point still stands.
LEARN TO READ
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dirtineye
Nov 11, 2005, 1:46 PM
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I love this thread.
It's great to have a new punching bag! Welcome gullable19.
Hey Angry, I bet those offwidths are easy for you cause you are a scrawny rat-like character, who can squirm into stuff that them bigger folk must curse and sweat on. For me, most people's semi-wide is a squeeze chimney. I alsoo get the coveted ring jams and thumb cams where my larger friends are forced to be brave and daring. On the other hand, what is bomber for the fat handed is usually a loose rattley insecure nightmare for me.
I think you should change your name to Angster, rhymes with ganster.
Ragging on people because they don't appear to climb very difficult routes is beneath contemp, unless I'm the one doing it.
Some of the safest climbers I know don't climb harder than about 5.8, and some of the strongest climbers I know routinely do stuff that would make a safety nazi run screaming from the cliff. There are guys out there who have climbed for 30 years who can't place a cam (or anything else except a Titon for that matter) worth a crap.
So caughtinzipper has been chipping holds on overbolted non-routes eh? He he.
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angry
Nov 11, 2005, 3:31 PM
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Normally Dirtinanus, I'd agree with you.
This guy is a little bitch and I used some examples to point it out.
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gullwing19
Nov 11, 2005, 5:27 PM
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Dirt...you bring up some nice points. Thanks for keeping it civil.
And angry, why don't you go back and re-read the posts to see who started questioning each others skill level first. Insults were slung at me to begin with. Was I supposed to just sit there and take it in the ass like like you do? No. I'm going to say something.
So bitch. I guess this is how it works. I insult you. You insult my lack of 5.12 offwidth ability. I insult you back etc. etc. We both hide behind a stupid computer screen and demean each others love, for whatever reason, of this great sport. Isn't the internet great?
Would you say those things to me in person? I don't think you would. Hell, your wife would probably have to jump in and save you anyway because you'd obviously be spent from climbing 5.12 all day, assuming that a 5.12 climber has time to marry.
You're probably a pretty decent guy in person but you're just like all the other internet pussies around here spraying about their rippling muscles and 5.12 offwidth onsites blindfolded with your dick hanging to the right instead of the left. Who the hell wants to hear about how good you are?
Oh, and I'm sorry for the ethnic slurs directed at the Polish kid. I really do know how many Pollocks it takes to change a lightbulb. I was just kidding.
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iltripp
Nov 11, 2005, 6:28 PM
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In reply to: Oh, and I'm sorry for the ethnic slurs directed at the Polish kid. I really do know how many Pollocks it takes to change a lightbulb. I was just kidding.
Newsflash... it wasn't funny.
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dirtineye
Nov 11, 2005, 7:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: So caughtinzipper has been chipping holds on overbolted non-routes eh? He he. Unlikely. I just like giving him s---.
Me too!
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gullwing19
Nov 11, 2005, 7:48 PM
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It's only funny to people with senses of humor.
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iltripp
Nov 11, 2005, 7:50 PM
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In reply to: It's only funny to people with senses of humor.
Or idiots... ^
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gullwing19
Nov 11, 2005, 7:57 PM
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Yes I guess idiots would be lumped into those with senses of humor but usually an idiot just laughs at whatever anyone else is laughing at, so I try not to count their laughter as comedically valuable.
I was refering to those like the bland. The boring. The uptight. The whinny. The melodramatic.
You know the type.
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stymingersfink
Nov 12, 2005, 7:45 PM
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:lol:
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iltripp
Nov 12, 2005, 9:31 PM
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In reply to: Yes I guess idiots would be lumped into those with senses of humor but usually an idiot just laughs at whatever anyone else is laughing at, so I try not to count their laughter as comedically valuable. I was refering to those like the bland. The boring. The uptight. The whinny. The melodramatic. You know the type.
I'm not sure I understood that... Perhaps some basic sentence structure would be helpful. Also, when you say, "I was referring to...", there should generally be some preceding statement to which you are referring. However, your last post was about "people with senses of humour". What does that have to do with "bland, boring, uptight", etc?
By the way, look up the definition of melodramatic; it's right up your alley.
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lewisiarediviva
Nov 12, 2005, 9:45 PM
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So gullwing 19, does your statement above mean that you never laugh if others are laughing?
Even us trad climbers have to lighten up sometimes. I was enjoying this thread until you came along. Now it all seems to be about you, and not cams. :( I've noticed this in a few threads.
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gullwing19
Nov 12, 2005, 10:00 PM
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Wow. Is this thread STILL active? You had indicated that something I said wasn't funny. I think I received your OPINION in a newsflash or something similar.
I indicated that it would only be funny to those with a sense of humor. Now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that same statement HINT that some people (you! you! you!) might not have a sense of humor. You might have to read between the lines a bit to find the direction i was heading but I'm sure what you lack in personality is made up in the IQ department so I'm not worried that you wont' get it. (did you catch that double negative?)
It's to those who lack a sense of humor (you! you! you!) that I was refering to. I believe I brought up bland, boring, whinny, and uptight along with the ever popular melodramatic as quality traits of those who often lack a sense of humor. Just something I've noticed in my years. Sorry if it hit a nerve.
I apologize if you misunderstood and I hope that I have cleared some things up. Shall I summarize for you the things that I've learned from this thread in case there are any questions? Here goes:
(1) Caughtinsideorwhatever asks questions he already knows the answer to in an attempt to stroke his own ego
(2) Over camming your cams is a BEGINNER mistake
(3) Caughtinsideorwhatever NEVER makes beginner mistakes
(4) I am funny
(5) You are not
As far as basic sentence structure goes I believe that I had the nouns, adjectives, verbs, capitalization and punctuation down. Hell, I even threw in a few contractions so that I didn't sound pompus.
I would however greatly appreciate any and all corrections that you might find wrong with my spelling and grammar. I'm an aspiring writer you see and it would be to my benefit to have those things pointed out each and every time I make a similar mistake. I'm grateful to those who are smarter than me, especially when they point it out. I have much to learn
Is that all you're gonna come at me with? Sentence structure? Sheesh. Go back to the playground and let the grownups talk.
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iltripp
Nov 12, 2005, 10:04 PM
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Hahahahahaha... hook, line, and sinker. You're right, you are funny.
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gullwing19
Nov 12, 2005, 10:11 PM
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yeah...sorry lewis for hijacking the thread. That wasn't my intention. But I get called a moron (first page) for valid advice (granted, I could have worded it better) and people expect me not to say something? And when I do I'm the asshole? C'mon. I'd like to believe that someone here has a backbone.
Why is it that 95 percent of the population is ok with the other 5 percent walking all over them?
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cgailey
Nov 12, 2005, 11:05 PM
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Here's a funny one:
In reply to: As far as my skill level goes.......I've never got a cam stuck in 10 years of placing em. That should be all you need to know.
In reply to: Oh, and I've been climbing bout 6 years now an NO, I never said I was better than Caughtinsideorwhatever.
hmmm.... :roll:
So which one is it? I know I was placing gear for four years before I started climbing on it.... :boring:
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dirtineye
Nov 13, 2005, 12:51 AM
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In reply to: yeah...sorry lewis for hijacking the thread. That wasn't my intention. But I get called a moron (first page) for valid advice (granted, I could have worded it better) and people expect me not to say something? And when I do I'm the asshole? C'mon. I'd like to believe that someone here has a backbone. Why is it that 95 percent of the population is ok with the other 5 percent walking all over them?
Let me make one thing perfectly clear:
You really are a moron.
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stymingersfink
Nov 13, 2005, 1:19 AM
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to borrow a post from another thread:
In reply to: :deadhorse: Please, PLEASE let this thread die. A wise man once said: Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. You might win, but you're still retarded! * No offense to the courageous souls who compete in the SO's. I'm just trying to illustrate a point.
*Emphasis/text size was mine*
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stymingersfink
Nov 13, 2005, 1:23 AM
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In reply to: :roll: :boring:
You've won, all of you.
Too bad I don't have enough gold medals to give one to each competitor. You all may deserve one.
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gullwing19
Nov 13, 2005, 5:11 AM
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Yeah, it's been more like six years of gear climbing and maybe a year of clippin bolts, but I don't count that as climbing so we'll go with six. Sue me for rounding up but the point was that I don't get cams stuck.
And Sty. You're a good man. I've always respected you. Remember that hick bar we trashed together down in Sedona? Shitkickers didn't know hit em! Man, those were the days. So it's by your request that I let this thread die. No more from me. Ever. Wait. One more thing.
Trip, you there? Sorry about the sense of humor thing man. I realize that not everyone can have one and I'm sorry I discriminated. Friends?
Ok. I'm done. Now how the hell do I get outta this thing?
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saxfiend
Nov 13, 2005, 7:31 AM
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In reply to: Ok. I'm done. Now how the hell do I get outta this thing?
JL
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lewisiarediviva
Nov 13, 2005, 5:24 PM
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In reply to: But I get called a moron (first page) for valid advice ( granted, I could have worded it better) and people expect me not to say something?
You admit this, and I can respect that. Next time please accept your mistakes sooner, then the moron may be the name caller instead. But in your case, and you may already know this, you put your cam in way to deep and it went deeper and deeper. Those you referred to in your first post, were highly experienced climbers.
But I've been wondering as this thread has gone on, have you ever had a cam placement fail you?
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stymingersfink
Nov 14, 2005, 9:46 PM
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In reply to: But I've been wondering as this thread has gone on, have you ever had a cam placement fail you?
That's another thread all together... we've agreed to quit :deadhorse:, right?
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lewisiarediviva
Nov 14, 2005, 9:56 PM
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In reply to: all together... we've agreed to quit :deadhorse:, right?
Sorry, I don't recall agreeing to quit. In a world of so many internet users I don't think the handfull of useres on this thread can really make that decision for me. If you want to quit, then do so. It's as easy as turning around and walking the other way.
And no I don't think my question belongs in another thread. I would imagine that getting a cam stuck, is partly due to the fear of it failing. So if someone has actually been able to climb on cams for so long with out getting them stuck, I'm curious to know if they've ever failed. If not, then I'd like to know what mental game he plays with himself to avoid bad placements.
The OP is actually inspiration for my question when he says:
In reply to: I don't know, I guess I should be more careful, and not pull the trigger all the way and just plunge it till it fits. But man I feel insecure on the wide cracks! |
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stzzo
Nov 14, 2005, 11:27 PM
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In reply to: It's only funny to people with senses of humor. |
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caughtinside
Nov 15, 2005, 7:46 PM
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:lol: :lol:
This thread was a real treat after 8 days in JTree, thanks for the laughs!
I am pleased to report I fixed zero cams in 15 days of climbing in Jtree.
Oh wait, I only climbed there 8 days. I must have rounded up.
Angry and Dirt, cheers boys! 8^)
caughtinsideorwhatever? Is that supposed to be insulting? Caughtplanninganothergridboltedroute was much more entertaining!
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lewisiarediviva
Nov 15, 2005, 7:50 PM
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Congratulations caughtinside!
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maculated
Nov 27, 2005, 6:49 AM
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This thread was so amusing, it deserves a bump!
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tradrenn
Nov 30, 2005, 2:14 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Ok. I'm done. Now how the hell do I get outta this thing? Move to Poland. JL
Now, that was funny.
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brent_e
Nov 30, 2005, 3:16 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Ok. I'm done. Now how the hell do I get outta this thing? Move to Poland. JL
TROPHY!!!!
awesome
gullwing69withyourmother
it's sad that darwin's work doesn't always come true.
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lextalion
Dec 1, 2005, 9:00 PM
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Yeah, it happens occasionally. a few weeks ago I was letting a partner of mine lead and he set the two cams over cammed and really deep in the crack.
Neither cam would budge enough to work them loose. What really sucks is that it was my rack he was using. Traditionally most of my other partners and I tend to not set gear as deep and hopefully not over cam them.
If you're able to get a yellow microcamalot out of the 1st pitch and a green 1.75 out of the 2nd pitch of Johnny Vegas (RRC). Your welcome.
Ethically, I think that if on lead and multiple cams are not able to be cleaned, you ought to offer to replace the gear with yours or pay for the replacement.
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quiteatingmysteak
Dec 28, 2005, 6:30 PM
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The best way to get this out (If this has already been explained to you just another way to say "Oorah!") is to take the wire from a nut (any size will work) and your nut tool. hook the end of the nut tool (y'know, the one that cap'n hook would have as a hand) around one side of the trigger and the wire around the other. grab each loop in these with a pinky and pointer finger and with your other hand stick your longest finger (emphasis on finger) into the shaft. push and pull, if you tried this and it didn't work BAH! I have fun replying!
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lextalion
Dec 30, 2005, 4:34 AM
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quiteatingmysteak,
No I've never been told of doing the trick you just described. Thanks for the info. the next time I'm out I think I might just go on a retrieval mission.
That way I will now have doubles of the gear lost. Never can have to much gear. Just don't want to carry it all.
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brutusofwyde
Dec 30, 2005, 6:08 AM
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In reply to: Never can have to much gear. Just don't want to carry it all.
That's what 18-wheelers are for.
Had a problem this last thanksgiving when my partner placed a .5 camalot in a crack. Her hands are way thinner than mine. Finally got the piece out but it must have taken me two minutes of working on it. I can think of only 3 other times I've left a piece in 30+ years of climbing. One was a stopper (we were carrying only one scratcher between us and forgot to hand it off to the second), one was a brand new 4.5 camalot (difficult to clean because fully retracted, and we were needing to move fast due to incoming storm) and one was a #2 Friend placed by an inexperienced partner on NE Buttress Higher Cathedral Rock. Last I heard that #2 Friend was still up there, after 20 years.
Over the years, I've bootied well over 200 pieces (including stoppers and pins) so I guess I've ended up with a positive gear balance.
Brutus
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