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devkrev
Jan 9, 2006, 9:53 PM
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I climb trad to practice for the gym.
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jt512
Jan 9, 2006, 10:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: The other day a friend asked me "whats so special abouut "trad" climbing?" I really had to think about it, how the hell did i eplain this? what makes trad climbing so good? How would you respond to a question like this? I should feel like a kid in a candy store right now, but after having just drunk the largest margarita in North America, my resposnse will have to be postponed 24 hours. Jay Please tell me you were not at the Mexican Rest. (name?) in Yucca Valley. That margarita almost killed me................
Amateur!
Jay
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jt512
Jan 9, 2006, 10:19 PM
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In reply to: Anyone with a rope and some draws can clog up a sport crag, but not everyone can head up a multi-pitch trad line.
Well, if they invest another $500 in gear, then they can "clog" up the multi-pitch trad line, too.
-Jay
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caughtinside
Jan 9, 2006, 10:23 PM
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Tell me about this Mexican restaurant with the mondo margs. Is it on the main drag there in YV?
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jt512
Jan 9, 2006, 10:23 PM
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In reply to: For most of the history before the golden age in Yosemite. To push the line by any means was the only. On the rock are in the mountains, the climbs where big, the nails where hard.
Back then the spelling whas better, too.
Jay
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jt512
Jan 9, 2006, 10:34 PM
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In reply to: Warren Harding. Forefather of sport climbing. I love it! 8^)
You and Dingus have forgotten that in a thread from a year or so ago we learned that the Nose is actually a sport climb, so it only stands to reason that Warren Harding was the father of sport climbing.
Jay
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jt512
Jan 9, 2006, 10:40 PM
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In reply to: Tell me about this Mexican restaurant with the mondo margs. Is it on the main drag there in YV?
jdouble was referring to Edchadas. It's on the main highway in YV. They have a so-called jumbo margarita, which is good for practice, anyway. Once you can run laps on those, it's time to step up to the $15 grande margarita at Amigo's in Pasadena, the only bar I've ever seen with a 3-drink maximum.
Jay
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tradklime
Jan 9, 2006, 11:13 PM
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[quote="dingus] The essence of trad climbing is ground up.
Dingus has it right, in a traditional sense (so to speak).
But was that really the original question? Not many people actually trad climb, but many climb placing their own gear and view it as superior to bolt clipping. I suppose myself included. Guide books, chalk, splitter cracks. Indian Creek is sport climbing with gear, and it is a wonderful place.
Comparing gear climbing to bolt clipping, placing your own gear adds a dimension to the activity. Creating your own protection scheme for each route adds an intellectual dimension that bolt clipping doesn't have. I suppose there are cases where gear climbing involves more adventure and more unknown, but there are certainly situations where the opposite is true.
When bolt clipping, you don't focus on the protection scheme, you assume what was given to you and focus on the movement. You are faced with an additional challenge when placing your own gear. Sometimes this additional challenge is significant, and other times it is not.
Purity, tradition, ethics, leave no trace... don't fool yourself.
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jt512
Jan 9, 2006, 11:17 PM
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In reply to: Comparing gear climbing to bolt clipping, placing your own gear adds a dimension to the activity. Creating your own protection scheme for each route adds an intellectual dimension that bolt clipping doesn't have.
Placing gear adds about as much "intellectual dimension" to climbing as using a stick shift does to driving.
Jay
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tradklime
Jan 9, 2006, 11:30 PM
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In reply to: Placing gear adds about as much "intellectual dimension" to climbing as using a stick shift does to driving. Jay
What's your take on it then?
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jt512
Jan 9, 2006, 11:38 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Placing gear adds about as much "intellectual dimension" to climbing as using a stick shift does to driving. Jay Yet some people love it, far more so than driving an automatic. What's your take on it then?
What's my take on what, people who love stick shifts? What can I say? Some people love Bud Lite, too.
Jay
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mcfoley
Jan 9, 2006, 11:40 PM
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In reply to: Unless you've lead trad, any attempted explanation would fall on deaf ears...
Ditto in this point ^
Because it's not sport! Sport sucks after you get into trad.
it loses it's taste after you get into trad...
Don't get me wrong, it's still fun...I just prefer to trad.
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tradklime
Jan 9, 2006, 11:42 PM
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In reply to: What's my take on what, people who love stick shifts? What can I say? Some people love Bud Lite, too. Jay
You have never found that driving a stick shift on a windy mountain road is more fun? Interesting.
See now, I've heard sport climbing compaired to light beer before.
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jt512
Jan 9, 2006, 11:45 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: What's my take on what, people who love stick shifts? What can I say? Some people love Bud Lite, too. Jay You have never found that driving a stick shift on a windy mountain road is more fun? Interesting.
Fun? Yes. "Adding an intellectual dimension?" Hardly.
Jay
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jt512
Jan 9, 2006, 11:48 PM
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In reply to: Sport sucks after you get into trad.
That's odd. It was the other way around for me and most of my climbing partners.
Jay
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atpeaceinbozeman
Jan 9, 2006, 11:51 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Comparing gear climbing to bolt clipping, placing your own gear adds a dimension to the activity. Creating your own protection scheme for each route adds an intellectual dimension that bolt clipping doesn't have. Placing gear adds about as much "intellectual dimension" to climbing as using a stick shift does to driving. Jay
Wow. That's a bold statement.
You should come cruise the 'heady' trad test pieces in the Gallatin Canyon. I'd love to snap photos....
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tradklime
Jan 9, 2006, 11:52 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: What's my take on what, people who love stick shifts? What can I say? Some people love Bud Lite, too. Jay You have never found that driving a stick shift on a windy mountain road is more fun? Interesting. Fun? Yes. "Adding an intellectual dimension?" Hardly. Jay
Oh, so your comment about people loving stick shifts wasn't disparaging. Got it. Then you like bud lite too? Or at least think it is fun to drink?
Is light beer a touch less fullfilling or satisfying? Like sport climbing?
A bit off topic but, have you never found the act of placing tricky gear or belay anchor a touch intellectually stimulating? I have certainly have approached some protection problems as a puzzle.
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jt512
Jan 10, 2006, 12:08 AM
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In reply to: A bit off topic but, have you never found the act of placing tricky gear or belay anchor a touch intellectually stimulating?
No, not really.
Jay
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healyje
Jan 10, 2006, 12:24 AM
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In reply to: Why trad? *Sport climbing represents an abdication of that responsibility to someone else who is providing your protection and they did it in some past time frame. You have essentially abdicated responsibility for your protection and safety to another person.* Crap answer. You could just as easily say that trad prioritizes playing with gear over actual difficulty. Neither would be true. Which is safer, 10 bomber Camalots or 10 bolts?
Kalcario, what the hell, once more around the dogtrack? I love chasing that rabbit too (do you think it's chasing a mechanical carrot?)...
Actually, and again, it goes to the very heart of the matter. It isn't remotely about which is safer - it's about how that safety is acquired. Did you provide your own or was it provided for you? It's a simple question, but is the real business. If it were just about the safety, movement, and difficulty then why (top access/habitat questions aside) fuck around clipping bolts on one pitch routes that could just as easily be top-roped? Personally I can't really think of anything more contrived than clipping bolts on a one pitch route. And for what? For a poor, skilless emulation of placing pro? Bolting crackless, multi-pitch routes, saving top habitats, and where access to the top isn't available all seem reasonable circumstances where there is a valid rationale for bolting - but please - let's get honest, call a spade a spade, and admit that for the vast majority of today's climbers it's first and foremost about risk aversion and convenience and very, very little to do with difficulty or movement.
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theman
Jan 10, 2006, 12:27 AM
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now that i have lead trad sport is like kissing my sister
trad is like screwing her
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annak
Jan 10, 2006, 12:39 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Comparing gear climbing to bolt clipping, placing your own gear adds a dimension to the activity. Creating your own protection scheme for each route adds an intellectual dimension that bolt clipping doesn't have. Placing gear adds about as much "intellectual dimension" to climbing as using a stick shift does to driving. Jay
Beware -- a nation that drives cars with automatic transition is bound for extinction!
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annak
Jan 10, 2006, 12:44 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Placing gear adds about as much "intellectual dimension" to climbing as using a stick shift does to driving. Jay Yet some people love it, far more so than driving an automatic. What's your take on it then? What's my take on what, people who love stick shifts? What can I say? Some people love Bud Lite, too. Jay
Thats's odd. All Bud Lite lovers I know drive an automatic. Makes one think, doesn't it?
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cracklover
Jan 10, 2006, 12:57 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Placing gear adds about as much "intellectual dimension" to climbing as using a stick shift does to driving. Jay Yet some people love it, far more so than driving an automatic. What's your take on it then? What's my take on what, people who love stick shifts? What can I say? Some people love Bud Lite, too. Jay Thats's odd. All Bud Lite lovers I know drive an automatic. Makes one think, doesn't it?
Maybe, but it won't make Jay think. Not if he doesn't want to. He'll just stick his tongue out at you and say "Nyah nyah, you didn't make me think at all!" Then he'll pass out from margarita-overdose.
GO
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cracklover
Jan 10, 2006, 1:01 AM
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The real answer?
It's a matter of taste. To me, it feels like real climbing. To others, no.
De gustibus non disputandum est!
Although if you feel like it, go right ahead.
GO
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