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styndall
Jul 10, 2006, 10:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I was thinking about this the other day. Generally speaking, trad climbing is Much Slower than sport climbing, at least at about equivalent difficulty. It can take me a long time to lead a trad pitch. I think what you meant to say was, "I'm slow at Trad climbing." A couple of guys linked Northern Lights into Freeway into the Grandwall for a total of over 30 pitches in 15 hours, including 3 1 to 1.5 hour descents last weekend. Nearly 5,000 feet of climbing (mostly 5.11, with a couple of pitches of 12) in 15 hours. When was the last time you did that sport climbing? How about freeing the nose in a day? That's a lot of rock in not much time.
I think the freakish mutants who pull the Nose in a day are not the type of climber we're discussing here.
Some very few people at the top end of the sport are extremely fast climbers. I've generally observed regular folks to fall more in line with caught_inside's experience, though.
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tgreene
Jul 10, 2006, 10:15 PM
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I don't have to maintain a running inventory of "gear" on a sport climb, because a draw is a draw is a draw. Cams & nuts & slings & draws however.... :idea:
Oh yea, there is also that whole trad rack weighing 17,000 times more than a sport rack issue, and it never fails, when you finally pull a roof, there will ALWAYS be at least one cam that catches the edge!!! :evil:
I weigh #160 and lug a #20 rack, and have actually onsighted a 10b mixed route. I would love to just once watch a sporto suffer up a route with 20-30 pounds of sliding weights loosely attached. :lol:
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tradrenn
Jul 10, 2006, 10:26 PM
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I didn't use your poll, but here is what I'm thinking:
What if you stop completly climbing sport, that way there is no slow or fast in trad. Wouldn't you agree ?
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caughtinside
Jul 10, 2006, 10:45 PM
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In reply to: I didn't use your poll, but here is what I'm thinking: What if you stop completly climbing sport, that way there is no slow or fast in trad. Wouldn't you agree ?
Well, owing to a hand injury in November, I haven't climbed anything but trad since then. But fast and smooth feels better than slow, for sure.
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beyond_gravity
Jul 10, 2006, 11:22 PM
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In reply to: Slow is the new fast.
Totally. I think aid climbing is going to hit a new wave because of this...
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secretagent
Jul 10, 2006, 11:30 PM
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Slow means you can trust it.
It was a slow process to install that bolt into the rock. :wink:
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cracklover
Jul 10, 2006, 11:40 PM
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You have more to do when climbing the same grade. Placing gear is only one component. Unless or until you are extremely proficient at all the additional things you need to master, you'll take longer. Stands to reason.
GO
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cracklover
Jul 11, 2006, 12:03 AM
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In reply to: Slow means you can trust it. It was a slow process to install that bolt into the rock. :wink:
Exactly - many of the many things you have to decide when trad climbing (route-finding, how often to place gear, where to place it to get the best line for the rope, what stance to use to place it from, the time to actually place the gear itself and get it right, where to stop and build an ancher, etc) were done for you already before you roped up for the sport climb. So you have less to do. People do get so fast at those things that they can multitask and essentially do them all while moving, though.
GO
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billcoe_
Jul 11, 2006, 12:15 AM
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In reply to: Hey joe, do you have any stories that don't involve either 1974 or some dude named tangen-foster?
Looks like he does. Tangen-Foster has yet to show up and weight in, but you might ask them about flying up the 19 pitches of Ephedrine last year, not 1974...2 old farts flying....up a lonnnnnggggg route. Can't be F*ing around or you'll be sleeping on the catus...in the dark. Plenty do.
I had some friends doing 1/2 dome, Reg NW face few years ago. Highly competent and skilled fellas, Dean Potter and Jose Peryarra showed up and as they passed them my friends described it like they were literally running up the thing.
Speed is often a function of mentality and competency.
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climbxclimb
Jul 11, 2006, 12:21 AM
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Yes trad is slow, it could not be otherwise.....BUT!! I do not see many sport climbers venturing on a mountain....nor on a big wall....
Sport climbing as the word says it is a sport, a very beautiful and exiting one...Trad climbing in its purest style is an ADVENTURE....
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tgreene
Jul 11, 2006, 1:06 AM
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Sport climbing is what happens to boulderers, when they get jobs that require piss tests. :idea:
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tradmanclimbs
Jul 11, 2006, 2:43 AM
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You just don't get it :roll: there are slow climbers and fast climbers. its not a trad vs sport thing. some people tale a week to climb a 10ft boulder and others climb el cap in a day. its all about how dialed you are at what your doing.
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ajkclay
Jul 11, 2006, 3:05 AM
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Yeah, but who cares? It's not a race...
and climbing harder Trad really works your decision making and holding power too; having to work out when to run it out and when to place gear, and dealing with the associated thoughts (fears and quieting the brain-chatter) is (IMO) a really important and fun part of climbing that you don't get when climbing brain-off on sport.
Sport's good for a workout and you get to climb some great rock which would otherwise be very risky, but you rarely get anything bolted below 5.10c over here, so if you can't climb that grade you have to trad it which is a good thing I think. You kinda have to learn the ropes the old school way, or just climb in the gym if you want to join the dots on easy stuff.
Both are good, each serve a purpose,
Peace
Adam
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comet
Jul 14, 2006, 7:58 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: So, I stood in that spot for a long time... Savoring the moment at the expense of your belayer, eh? :wink: That's a totally honest wink by the way.
Eh, it was just payback for me taking at the crux while leading the previous route. :)
I think the only factor that makes me slower on trad is it takes me longer to place gear than clip bolts. The head game is as much of a problem sport climbing. Dave, maybe you can go faster sport climbing because you often climb at crags where you placed the bolts, and know they're bomber? (P.S. You liar, you still sport climb. I've clipped bolts with you since November. Twice!)
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caughtinside
Jul 14, 2006, 10:00 PM
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In reply to: (P.S. You liar, you still sport climb. I've clipped bolts with you since November. Twice!)
Busted! :oops:
Yeah, but since I haven't redpointed anything hard, I think it was just bolted face climbing instead of sport climbing. :P
(but you probably have to read numerous obnoxious threads in the sport forum to get that one...)
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the_pirate
Jul 14, 2006, 10:43 PM
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I'm in no hurry.
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boadman
Jul 15, 2006, 12:54 AM
Post #42 of 61
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I was thinking about this the other day. Generally speaking, trad climbing is Much Slower than sport climbing, at least at about equivalent difficulty. It can take me a long time to lead a trad pitch. I think what you meant to say was, "I'm slow at Trad climbing." A couple of guys linked Northern Lights into Freeway into the Grandwall for a total of over 30 pitches in 15 hours, including 3 1 to 1.5 hour descents last weekend. Nearly 5,000 feet of climbing (mostly 5.11, with a couple of pitches of 12) in 15 hours. When was the last time you did that sport climbing? How about freeing the nose in a day? That's a lot of rock in not much time. I think the freakish mutants who pull the Nose in a day are not the type of climber we're discussing here. Some very few people at the top end of the sport are extremely fast climbers. I've generally observed regular folks to fall more in line with caught_inside's experience, though.
Actually, I wouldn't consider myself a mutant, and all my biggest days have been trad days. When my head is right and I'm with a good partner, I can usually do a pitch every 20-30 minutes (both of us, including rack rebuild, anchor set-up/take down...). I've had a couple of 20+ pitch days in Squamish, and Red Rocks, and the Creek. I've never done more than 12 pitches of sport in a day. If my head's right, and I'm not having trouble sacking up, I climb a trad pitch way faster than when I'm dogging sport, even if it's at my limit. Efficient rope management, gear placement, and rack transfer all make it possible to move pretty dam fast. Simul climbing takes it to yet another level, and feels great.
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bigbiscuit
Jul 15, 2006, 2:55 AM
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Like most of the replies, I agree that trad is slower. I also agree that skill, experience, equipment, style, personal style/traits affect the time it takes to climb trad. I have been climbing trad about 6 months. My first lead was a 5.7 trad climb. The more I climb trad... The faster I climb... but I'll never be fast because I'm always looking for different ways to set my anchors. If somebody wants to just climb fast, they should stick with sport climbing...
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stuck_n_a_rut
Jul 15, 2006, 3:14 AM
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Seriously, If and when i get to climb, the idea is to spend a much time as possible while there
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tradmanclimbs
Jul 15, 2006, 3:14 AM
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Big biscuit, you should definatly stick with spurt, it's way faster, especialy when a posse of you guys hang out and run laps on one climb all afternoon :roll: that is just smokin fast :roll:
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coldclimb
Jul 15, 2006, 4:33 AM
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Aid climbing is even slower! :wink:
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quietpartner
Jul 15, 2006, 6:09 AM
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It takes time to get jiggy with your inner engineer. :wink:
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c4c
Jul 15, 2006, 10:51 AM
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In reply to: Aid climbing is even slower! :wink:
yes we know--I already said that on page 2-- Try climbing Everest. That would be slow!! step, breathe, breathe, breathe. step...etc.
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lunabruandabby
Jul 15, 2006, 11:04 AM
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How is it that many of you agree with that statement. C'mon....there have to be others who can plug and go. As far as splitters go, I can blast up 'em way faster than a face where I have to suss shit out. Coyne's Crack in about 7 minutes! Tradsters step up to the plate and dismiss this foolish notion that we are slow and clunky!
Justin
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