|
|
|
|
pro4pros
Aug 8, 2006, 1:20 AM
Post #1 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 25
|
On a recent trip to windy point my partner Fred and I noticed a brand new shiny boltline about five feet from the highway, in the area we would later understand to be 'The Stones & Colonel Birdseye' area. While climbing and clipping bolts (about every 6') an odd sensation was experienced - clipping with one hand, while the other lay comfortably in a bomber jam. After finishing the route another group of climbers arrived and informed us that what we were climbing was actually trad rout established in 77 by Dave Baker called The Pits, 5.9+.
Later I called Dave to see if he had given permission to add bolts to this route, he said he had not. This route will be chopped, it is only a matter of time. Assentionists - please remove your bolts and patch your holes, this, all style asside was an established route. Please if you ever need to borrow a copy of the Lemon guide or wish to understand the workings of trad climbing give me a call (5209772649). Please fix this mistake, otherwise others will chop your rout and take your hangers. I will help you chop the route if you need a partner. Peace. --Meghan C.
|
|
|
|
|
valeberga
Aug 8, 2006, 2:19 AM
Post #2 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2003
Posts: 434
|
BUSTED!! :lol:
Seriously who the f' would waste their time bolting a hand crack when it takes all of 2 seconds to place a cam. :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
pro4pros
Aug 26, 2006, 6:59 PM
Post #4 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 25
|
This is not the only established gear climb to be bolted, I have learned. As soon as I have time I will make it a point to chop every bolt placed by this "rout setter."
|
|
|
|
|
braxtron
Aug 27, 2006, 7:12 PM
Post #5 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 9, 2003
Posts: 67
|
Do tell who the perpetrator is...
|
|
|
|
|
jaybro
Aug 27, 2006, 8:24 PM
Post #6 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 441
|
A bunch of this shit has been going on at Mt Lemmon for some time now ~20+ yrs.
"protect freeclimbs with RP's? Eeeewwwwww."
Good luck!
|
|
|
|
|
pro4pros
Aug 28, 2006, 2:32 AM
Post #7 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 25
|
I wish I knew the name of this predator, I only know his style: well placed Pagan bolts, typically about 5-6ft apart. The longer this rout stands, and the more 'sport cracks' that appear on mt. lemon, the angrier I will become.
**Several of the gear routs on Gumbie wall have become all sport routs. Woo hoo! Ill never have to carry my rack on a five minute approach again! (sarcasm) :x
|
|
|
|
|
gunksgoer
Aug 28, 2006, 5:00 AM
Post #8 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 1290
|
Honestly though, why would you want to spend the money on hangers, bolts and a bit when you could sew something up with gear?
|
|
|
|
|
pro4pros
Aug 28, 2006, 4:39 PM
Post #9 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 25
|
These are the questions that keep me up at night.
|
|
|
|
|
renobdarb
Aug 28, 2006, 4:48 PM
Post #10 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 393
|
In reply to: Honestly though, why would you want to spend the money on hangers, bolts and a bit when you could sew something up with gear?
...because whoever did it is a wuss and doesn't want to man up and spend even money on pro. :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
scottd
Oct 31, 2006, 2:09 PM
Post #11 of 35
(63293 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 21, 2002
Posts: 47
|
Has this been chopped yet???
I'd be happy to help/ do the bolt removal. The bolter needs to be informed about this so it won't happen again. I'm all for chopping retrobolt jobs, but not if they are going to be re-drilled again, causing further damage. If someone chops it, PLEASE fill the holes, and do a good job. The only thing uglier than a retrobolt is a bad chop job.
|
|
|
|
|
jamesdebella
Mar 6, 2008, 3:24 PM
Post #13 of 35
(17602 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2007
Posts: 12
|
Quick! Call Ken Nichols.
|
|
|
|
|
bobruef
Mar 6, 2008, 3:33 PM
Post #14 of 35
(17594 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 884
|
jamesdebella wrote: Quick! Call Ken Nichols.
(shudder)... kaiser sose!?...
|
|
|
|
|
el_layclimber
Mar 6, 2008, 3:35 PM
Post #15 of 35
(17587 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2006
Posts: 550
|
There are plenty of sport routes on Mount Lemmon. I especially find the idea of retrobolting a Dave Baker route to be despicable. What he did up there is an important part of the history of the area.
I agree with finding the person to explain why that isn't cool, but I don't think it should be a negotiation. Chop it.
|
|
|
|
|
zeke_sf
Mar 6, 2008, 3:47 PM
Post #16 of 35
(17574 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
|
el_layclimber wrote: There are plenty of sport routes on Mount Lemmon. I especially find the idea of retrobolting a Dave Baker route to be despicable. What he did up there is an important part of the history of the area. I agree with finding the person to explain why that isn't cool, but I don't think it should be a negotiation. Chop it.
|
|
|
|
|
dynosore
Mar 6, 2008, 4:07 PM
Post #17 of 35
(17544 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1768
|
Pull bolts, use on the bolter, your choice....
|
|
|
|
|
drjghl
Mar 7, 2008, 5:54 PM
Post #18 of 35
(17447 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 9, 2002
Posts: 135
|
This type of mindset is unfortunate. Why the f--- is this stuff happening?
I wonder, where along the path one takes to becoming a climber, someone gets it in their head to place a bolt next to a crack that takes gear.
I don't know how to pull a bolt properly and patch the hole. If anyone plans to go out and needs some help, I wouldn't mind learning this skill, so drop me a line if you need a partner.
|
|
|
|
|
eastvillage
Mar 9, 2008, 12:25 AM
Post #20 of 35
(17331 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 262
|
drjghl wrote: This type of mindset is unfortunate. Why the f--- is this stuff happening?
Just another clueless dip shit who's blinded by his sense of entitlement.
|
|
|
|
|
miavzero
Mar 9, 2008, 2:59 AM
Post #21 of 35
(17259 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2005
Posts: 624
|
drjghl wrote: This type of mindset is unfortunate. Why the f--- is this stuff happening? I wonder, where along the path one takes to becoming a climber, someone gets it in their head to place a bolt next to a crack that takes gear. I don't know how to pull a bolt properly and patch the hole. If anyone plans to go out and needs some help, I wouldn't mind learning this skill, so drop me a line if you need a partner.
The world needs new bolt-choppers about as much as it needs new retro-bolters.
|
|
|
|
|
miavzero
Mar 9, 2008, 3:01 AM
Post #22 of 35
(17257 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2005
Posts: 624
|
eastvillage wrote: drjghl wrote: This type of mindset is unfortunate. Why the f--- is this stuff happening? Just another clueless dip shit who's blinded by his sense of entitlement.
These people exist on both sides of the argument.
|
|
|
|
|
pyrosis
Mar 9, 2008, 5:22 AM
Post #23 of 35
(17199 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 150
|
miavzero wrote: These people exist on both sides of the argument.
Maybe so but on this particular issue the answer has always been clear. It is absolutely not OK to add drilled protection to an established climb without permission of the first ascencionist. No more than it is ok to drill yourself a nice pocket because you can't pull a move...
-T
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Mar 9, 2008, 6:03 AM
Post #25 of 35
(17178 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
bobruef wrote: jamesdebella wrote: Quick! Call Ken Nichols. (shudder)... kaiser sose!?...
Nice reference.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Mar 9, 2008, 6:06 AM
Post #26 of 35
(1931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
zeke_sf wrote: He's had two years to do it now.
Hold up.
These bolts are still in place?
Edited because my dumb ass cant even use a simple quote function.
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Mar 9, 2008, 6:07 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Mar 9, 2008, 6:27 AM
Post #27 of 35
(1921 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
miavzero wrote: The world needs new bolt-choppers about as much as it needs new retro-bolters.
The notion there is anything whatsoever wrong with removing egregiously placed bolts is an irrational and unsupportble stance which merely contributes to problems such as this.
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Mar 9, 2008, 7:36 PM
Post #28 of 35
(1889 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28414
|
notapplicable wrote: zeke_sf wrote: He's had two years to do it now. Hold up. These bolts are still in place? Edited because my dumb ass cant even use a simple quote function.
Doubtful, this thread was necromanced with no relation to the OP.
|
|
|
|
|
drjghl
Mar 9, 2008, 10:25 PM
Post #29 of 35
(1850 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 9, 2002
Posts: 135
|
<yawn>
|
|
|
|
|
miavzero
Mar 10, 2008, 12:00 AM
Post #30 of 35
(1825 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2005
Posts: 624
|
healyje wrote: miavzero wrote: The world needs new bolt-choppers about as much as it needs new retro-bolters. The notion there is anything whatsoever wrong with removing egregiously placed bolts is an irrational and unsupportble stance which merely contributes to problems such as this.
I'm not trying to justify the existence of unnecessary bolts. Given the choice, I would rather that they are removed and never reappear. Unfortunatley this is rarely the case, and bolts end up getting chopped, replaced, chopped, and replaced until the rock becomes a stud filled mess, or land managers realize that climbers are not capable of policing themselves and shut down climbing areas.
Who gets left blind by the eye-for-eye?
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Mar 10, 2008, 3:45 AM
Post #31 of 35
(1790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
chossmonkey wrote: notapplicable wrote: zeke_sf wrote: He's had two years to do it now. Hold up. These bolts are still in place? Edited because my dumb ass cant even use a simple quote function. Doubtful, this thread was necromanced with no relation to the OP.
Yeah I guess I probably read that wrong.
It just struck me as implying that they are still in place.
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Mar 10, 2008, 5:30 AM
Post #32 of 35
(1764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
miavzero wrote: healyje wrote: miavzero wrote: The world needs new bolt-choppers about as much as it needs new retro-bolters. The notion there is anything whatsoever wrong with removing egregiously placed bolts is an irrational and unsupportble stance which merely contributes to problems such as this. I'm not trying to justify the existence of unnecessary bolts. Given the choice, I would rather that they are removed and never reappear. Unfortunatley this is rarely the case, and bolts end up getting chopped, replaced, chopped, and replaced until the rock becomes a stud filled mess, or land managers realize that climbers are not capable of policing themselves and shut down climbing areas. Who gets left blind by the eye-for-eye?
Actually, the reality is bolt-wars are the exception, not the rule. There are no shortage of bolt-wars that went on, mostly in the late 80's and early 90's, but these days it usually suffices to ask whomever placed them to remove inappropriate bolts or bolted on holds. If it doesn't, then simply removing them typically ends the matter. If it doesn't, then you will be faced with some difficult decisions - I'd personally err on the side of well-patched rock.
|
|
|
|
|
pro4pros
Mar 10, 2008, 11:57 PM
Post #33 of 35
(1729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 25
|
While Im in absolute agreement, perhaps we should spend less time posting to this thread and begin polishing our pitch forks and torches.
Im not only advocating an angry militia armed with crowbars, but 'education.' Lets prune this ideology where it buds - the rock gym. Too many ambitious climbers are being pumped out with a new cord, a shiny set of draws, and not the slightest notion of ethics.
If we dont take the time to inform coming generations of gym rats as ravenous to bag routs as we were as traditional climbers, defilements like this will only continue.
(This post was edited by pro4pros on Mar 11, 2008, 12:04 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
keegan540
Mar 11, 2008, 2:24 PM
Post #34 of 35
(1683 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2006
Posts: 54
|
If this is still an issue I'm in favor of dynamiting the entire crag. That'll teach em'!!!
|
|
|
|
|
pro4pros
Mar 11, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #35 of 35
(1658 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 25
|
Naw, better just to file all crux bolts down razor sharp and sh*t in chalk buckets.
|
|
|
|
|
|
