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happiegrrrl
Mar 4, 2007, 3:27 PM
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disappointing, from a climbing prespective....
While the photos have artistic merit, and it's great to hear these women talking....there's only one shot where someone is actually climbing. The others are (wo)man against the landscape poses.
Surely the slideshow makes me want to go to the physical places shown and be in the mental states talked about....but let's hope the average reader that decides to "try it" doesn't decide to whip out a yoga pose at clifftop as her guide gets ready to herd them down the descent. Or - much, much, MUCH worse - get out there with some pick up guy and do the "trust" lean over cliff's edge..... Yikes.
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amikros
Mar 5, 2007, 3:39 PM
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oooomygod, I know...that picture creeped me out...if anybody ever decided "hey, lets precariously hold onto eachother, you'll be halfway off the cliff, ok?", I'd start walking home
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acacongua
Mar 5, 2007, 4:36 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: While the photos have artistic merit, and it's great to hear these women talking....there's only one shot where someone is actually climbing. The others are (wo)man against the landscape poses.
We're looking at famous climbing women. We've seen a plethora of shots of them climbing already. |
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roflcakes
Mar 5, 2007, 4:59 PM
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wow, you really don't like men at all. Maybe its cuz........never mind
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happiegrrrl
Mar 5, 2007, 5:01 PM
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And that is why the photos might be inspiring to those who are climbers. But, the piece is in the NY Times, and the target audience...isn't us. I have no doubt whatsoever that some people have looked at those photos, and thought things like strength balance pose on a hanging rope is part of climbing.
At any rate - I DID like the photgraphy. But must admit, I would really be more impressed by someone with an ability to get those sort of Ansel Adams/Galen Rowell qualities with more spontaneous, natural poses. I hate to be so critical, being a complete bumblie at photgraphy myself, but that is my perspective on the thing.
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happiegrrrl
Mar 5, 2007, 5:11 PM
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roflcakes wrote: wow, you really don't like men at all. Maybe its cuz........never mind
Do you mind being a little more specific as to your meaning?
1) Which phrase or words give you an idea that I don't like men? Honestly, I am interested in knowing.
2) In writing "maybe it's cuz...." - I am guessing you are insinutating I am lesbian. If so:
- I'm heterosexual, if you feel it's any of your business to know.
- Most people would consider that sort of remark to be the sign of a shallow and immature mind.
- At any rate, I like men very much. As friends, lovers and people in general. I have climbed with probably at least 100 different men since I started climbing, and - save for one - I don't believe you will find any who would say anything even remotely disparraging about me, much less that they thought I "didn't like men."
So....roflcakes - if you think your sticks and stones approach is going to hurt me; it might be to your benefit to think twice about it.
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livvy
Mar 5, 2007, 8:47 PM
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I agree - the target audience likely hasn't seen these women kicking arse and taking names so it is unfortunate that they are posed looking artistic and hot rather than climbing and artistic and hot.
And really...ANOTHER shot where the SOLE purpose of the camera angle is to catch a shot of boobs coming out of a sports bra? Don't get me wrong, I don't have any problem with pictures intended to titillate but this is so elementary-climbing-photography school. Overplayed, passe, on the wrong side of the "cool" line, we are ready for something more interesting please. Of course, I'm a straight female so perhaps I'm more bored of that shot than others.
Which brings me to my second point. IF the insinuation was that the poster was a lesbian (and I of course can only guess the intent), what would that have to do with their right to have an opinion about how women climbers are portrayed?
Um, that would be a woman on the forum...with an opinion about women in climbing. Who cares who she is or isn't humping?
(This post was edited by livvy on Mar 5, 2007, 8:48 PM)
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livvy
Mar 5, 2007, 8:53 PM
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PS, my letter to the editor:
Regarding your Play Magazine special "Climb like a girl".
There have been thousands of photos of these women climbing hard so it is understandable that a photographer might want to innovate, but most of your readers have never seen the elite women of climbing pulling hard on the rock. Why add to the tradition of static images of women athletes and dynamic images of male athletes? Why focus on breasts threatening to spill out of an upside down woman's sports bra rather than that same woman performing at the top of what used to be a male dominated sport?
As a female climber I'm disappointed in another failure to convey photographically the determination and prowess that those women displayed in the audio of the story.
Sincerely, MY NAME
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thomasribiere
Mar 5, 2007, 9:35 PM
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I find you a bit harsh. What pic are you talking about?
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livvy
Mar 5, 2007, 9:38 PM
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Beth Rodden, upside down.
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thomasribiere
Mar 5, 2007, 10:19 PM
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!? I think your reaction is a bit exagerated. It's in the general tone of the slide show. Well, I'm a guy.
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olderic
Mar 5, 2007, 10:31 PM
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Not that it really matters in the context of this thread but the photographer is pretty well know and respected in the classic art photography world. My wife who is a fairly accomplished photographer and who also doesn't generally give two hoots about climbing, got quite excited when she saw who the photographer was.
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livvy
Mar 5, 2007, 10:34 PM
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The photos are beautiful.
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marinaaxid25
Mar 5, 2007, 11:01 PM
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Alright..I'm going to try to sound neutral here. I can see that the photog's approach to taking these shots didn't suit some of you. I take it that it would have been preferred to have seen these gals in a photoJOURNALISTIC style. Fine art photography shows a lot of aesthetics in its subjects, but can take away the meaning of what they are about. Am I correct?
However, getting into an argument about feminist issues also detract from a more productive discussion. (And this is coming from a woman.) As a former artist myself, I learned not to take criticisms personally. Or else, how else would I have been able to gain more insight from someone else? I guess it's all how these criticsms are said.
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matterunomama
Mar 6, 2007, 1:47 AM
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livvy wrote: The photos are beautiful.
I agree. Have you looked at other photo essays or even article photos in PLAY? They rarely show the athletes in action (altho articles talk about their athleticism).They are art photos/personality studies, not illustrations of the sport.
I thought the multimedia show in which the climbers spoke gave a very nice feeling of what motivates people to climb-all the way from the spiritual to "I just like to win". I cut out a photo of Chris Sharma's hand that appeared in an earlier issue and framed it-because it was a really nice photo and had some meaning to me. However, it illustrated very little about the sport of climbing other than the hand looked really chapped and cut.
As for the boobs, well the woman is upside down. I don't think they did that just to make them prominent. Frankly, I had to go back and look at the picture because I hadn't noticed-what drew my attention when I first saw the shoot was the relative lack of fat on the hips despite the harness cutting in-which shows you where my obsessions are.. What, is she supposed to slump and the photographer shoot from the side, like an old Playboy photo? Hey, women have boobs, men have..bulges. Trust me, we notice. Who could miss that in a climbing harness?
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granite_grrl
Mar 6, 2007, 2:03 AM
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A little disapointed at tone of the slide show. The photos are lovely, but I agree with others that it would be nice to associate climbing like a girl with strong and independant.
The photos could have shown that better, showing some muscles or doing things that everyday people think are near impossible.
But I liked looking at the pretty photos.
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livvy
Mar 6, 2007, 2:23 PM
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It's a good point - I don't pay so I don't know the norm of the medium and couldn't read the other stories - just see the main page shots.
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blonde_loves_bolts
Mar 6, 2007, 4:18 PM
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Keep in mind also that the title of the series is 'Climb Like A Girl'... which would call to mind similar commercial campaigns that were about taking gender stereotypes and converting them into something different and more proactive. This result isn't new to me... maybe it's the disconnect that's more bothersome, then.
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sidepull
Mar 6, 2007, 4:20 PM
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I liked the slideshow. Generally the interviews are far less pretentious than those in, say, Specimen, and the photos offered a unique view (although I didn't think the one of Beth walking down el cap was very good - reminded me of the 60's Batman).
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acacongua
Mar 6, 2007, 4:24 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: And that is why the photos might be inspiring to those who are climbers. But, the piece is in the NY Times
I'm sure if you take a poll, you'll find that many non-climbers have seen plenty of images of people climbing. Those people visit the same magazine section we do to find our monthly climbing rag. Images are all over t.v. as well - climbing images are quite pervasive. For those who are on the outside looking in, they are intrigued by people, and I would think especially women, who do "high-risk," daring "sports." Those images reveal the innate daring and adventurous aspects of the women (didn't you gasp when you saw Steph D. being held at a cliff's edge by someone's hands?) and their voices behind the images speak to why climbing allures them. The question of "why do you do it?" is often asked by those on the outside looking in.
I too was taken back by the boobs hanging out of the sports top, but I'm just a straight female. What do I know?
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iamthewallress
Mar 6, 2007, 6:18 PM
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If I was Beth Rodden, I might get a kick out of the boob picture. Based on writings of hers, she seemed to struggle against seeming like a little kid well into her 20's...so good for her and her bigger-than-I-would-have-guessed boobs for getting to do a womanly shot in the Times.
As far as feminist angle goes, the only part that really bugged me was that the series wrapped up on a gal defining her future by way of the type of guy that she hoped to marry.
But, I figure if this is what's in the woman's hearts (and not just a carefully edited bunch of tidbits that fit the artists agenda), then saying anything else really is propaganda as opposed to journalism.
(This post was edited by iamthewallress on Mar 6, 2007, 6:44 PM)
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alxg
Mar 7, 2007, 12:53 AM
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she's a 17 year old climber who has seen a lot of climber:non-climber relationships go south. she has also heard from quite a few older climbers that it's extremly important to find someone who truly enjoys the same thing that you're passionate about.
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