|
photoguy190
May 15, 2007, 8:23 PM
Post #1 of 42
(7599 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 30, 2006
Posts: 191
|
I have been looking for a set of cams, I've been looking at rock empire cams, I know they aren't the best, but the price gets me climbing with out having to borrow my friends all the time. I've really like the Durangos, but when I was looking on there site I found a new set called the Re-flex. I can't find them in the USA, they look to be a new model of flex cams. They look really nice and seem to be lighter and have a better expansion range then the Durangos. Any one used them know where to get them.
Here is the link
http://www.rockempire.cz/...98&nLanguageID=2
|
|
|
|
|
krosbakken
May 15, 2007, 9:20 PM
Post #2 of 42
(7562 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 581
|
From what I've heard I wouldn't go with RE cams. Yes they are cheap but they shouldn't be the back bone of your rack. I've never used RE cams but that is what I have heard.
|
|
|
|
|
photoguy190
May 15, 2007, 9:29 PM
Post #3 of 42
(7551 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 30, 2006
Posts: 191
|
I've climbed on many different cams including Rock Empire I know they aren't the best but they are a really good value. If I could afford a rack of Camalots I would buy. I don't need people to tell me the rock empire is junk I know there product, I'm asking if anyone knows any thing about the apparently new Re-flex. If the specs on the new re-flex are true they could be a better cam too.
|
|
|
|
|
krosbakken
May 15, 2007, 10:29 PM
Post #4 of 42
(7529 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 581
|
Sry for the misunderstanding.
|
|
|
|
|
winglessangel
May 15, 2007, 10:45 PM
Post #5 of 42
(7514 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 459
|
As far as I know re-flex is the redisgn of a cam called flex. This old flex wasn't even theirs, they bought it from some company.
For us Brazilians price does matter since importing taxes can put the itens up to 4 times it's original value. A friend has a set of RE and he doesn't complain.
And for opinions tha I've heard (not mine), go for ROBOT cams, they are more durable then flex or re-flex.
|
|
|
|
|
winglessangel
May 15, 2007, 11:08 PM
Post #6 of 42
(7495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 459
|
no, sorry.
go for Robot instead of Comet, that is what I was told.
No one aorud here has the re-flex set, so sorry I can't help.
I have a set of camalots just cause I go someone to bring it from France to me, but I was almost buying the robot set till I new of this last minute oportunity.
|
|
|
|
|
unreleasedenergy
May 15, 2007, 11:09 PM
Post #7 of 42
(7492 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2006
Posts: 77
|
durangos are a copy of the trango flex cams. i'm not sure about how the patent stuff works out, but i do like the trango version, just don't own any.
i did happen to notice the new addition of the re-flex cams, however i haven't seen them for sale anywhere.
i like the idea of the 7 and 8 for big stuff but still economical.
the largest pulsars are comparable in size but dual stem.
we'll see if they get released over here.
|
|
|
|
|
notch
May 15, 2007, 11:29 PM
Post #8 of 42
(7481 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 599
|
winglessangel wrote: A friend has a set of RE and he doesn't complain.
He may never have a chance...
Get the heavier models. If you know the quality is already somewhat suspect, why buy a model with less material? Asking for trouble, IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
angry
May 15, 2007, 11:55 PM
Post #9 of 42
(7467 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
I've used the Rock Empire Pulsar cams extensively in the offwidth sizes. At first I loved them, they are so much lighter and cheaper than WC or BD.
I will never, ever, buy a Rock Empire cam again. The camstops on mine jammed together, no amount of lube could fix them. The only way to keep them functional is to actually REMOVE the camstops. Then the thumb bar (u-stem) broke. Rock Empire informed me that they do no offer any warranty on non structural parts of the cam.
Fuck those cams, they aren't built well enough.
|
|
|
|
|
climbinginchico
May 16, 2007, 12:47 AM
Post #10 of 42
(7433 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 3032
|
No way would I ever buy a cam with that much material taken out of the lobes. It's a recipe for disaster.
|
|
|
|
|
chumbawumba
May 16, 2007, 1:04 AM
Post #11 of 42
(7423 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 20, 2005
Posts: 44
|
Check out solid stem Friends. They're cheap at gearexpress.com, they work well, and will never wear out.
|
|
|
|
|
boku
May 16, 2007, 1:35 AM
Post #12 of 42
(7403 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 278
|
unreleasedenergy wrote: durangos are a copy of the trango flex cams. i'm not sure about how the patent stuff works out...
Yes, Durangos are basically the same as Trango Flex. No, they're not a copy.
Rock Empire was manufacturing the Flex for Trango, now they're making them for themselves under the Durango name. Dunno how the license stuff works out, you'd have to ask Malcolm about that.
My cam rack is all Camalots and Rock Empire cams (a mix of Robot and Comet). I like that mix because the Camalots have a lot of range, and the Comets are light and let you carry a lot of cams. I think the RE cams are smooth and solid, well-enough made gear.
Anybody who thinks the Rock Empire stuff looks sketch oughta try a Petrenko Links cam. But even those seem to pull-test to well above their rating.
Bob "BoKu" K.
|
|
|
|
|
photoguy190
May 16, 2007, 1:48 AM
Post #13 of 42
(7399 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 30, 2006
Posts: 191
|
I'm not sure what every one has against RE, its not like they are having the problems that CCH is having, or is the history I don't know about. I have looked at other inexpensive cams and they don't work for me, I do a lot of horizontal placement not good with solid stems and I feel more comfortable placing single stem cams. Right know I need cams to climb so I can afford 4 BD cams or 8 RE, it makes sense to me to but the RE and then slowly add BD as the money comes available. However if there is a proven safety issue not just its less money it not as good that would change my mind.
|
|
|
|
|
joeforte
May 16, 2007, 2:18 AM
Post #14 of 42
(7384 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 9, 2005
Posts: 1093
|
I own a set of rock empire durangos. They hold just as well as any other cam I've whipped on. The big ones tend to walk, and are a bit unstable. I'd definately recomend the first 6 RE durango cams. The smallest 4 are great. Get a #1 and #2 camalot to replace the bigger ones. I started out with a full set of durangos, and eventially added .75-3 camalots. I have never felt the need to upgrade/replace my small-medium durangos, and they stay on my rack to this day.
There is no reason to worry about their safety.
|
|
|
|
|
cornstateclimber
May 16, 2007, 2:20 AM
Post #15 of 42
(7382 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2005
Posts: 324
|
Iown rock empire robots and My partner has the durangos. I love all of them but the #5 and the pulsar bigs #5-7 suck bad. But I dont hesitate to place my robots or the durangos in most situations. But also IMO if you can afford c-4's the buy them you cant go wrong there, thats my next buy to replace the robots....
|
|
|
|
|
needlzdos
May 16, 2007, 2:39 AM
Post #16 of 42
(7368 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2007
Posts: 18
|
I have the full set of Durangos and the 2 biggest Pulsars. I like the small Durangos b/c they were affordable, the big pulsar's are crap and I firmly believe I may die if I whip above them since they walk so badly it's super easy for them to F' themselves into a ridiculous position.
Checkout www.spadout.com for the older style camalots that many stores are liquidating. They are often cheaper than the RE cams and they're BD kick a$$ camalots! Also checkout gearexpress.com and their sales/blems/closeouts.
http://www.mountaingear.com/pages/product/product.asp/imanf/Black+Diamond/idesc/Micro+Camalot+-+Closeout/Store/MG/item/626014/N/1014
|
|
|
|
|
winglessangel
May 16, 2007, 4:54 PM
Post #17 of 42
(7315 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 459
|
photoguy190 wrote: I'm not sure what every one has against RE, its not like they are having the problems that CCH is having, or is the history I don't know about. I have looked at other inexpensive cams and they don't work for me, I do a lot of horizontal placement not good with solid stems and I feel more comfortable placing single stem cams. Right know I need cams to climb so I can afford 4 BD cams or 8 RE, it makes sense to me to but the RE and then slowly add BD as the money comes available. However if there is a proven safety issue not just its less money it not as good that would change my mind.
You have a point.
if you come to think about it I've heard of stories of CCH, omega and other cams that really BROKE in a fall.
Never heard of a RE that broke. Can happen, but I haven't heard about.
But since you are asking "hat every one has against RE", I believe the answer is durability and apparently some "moving" pulsars.
So analyzing the previous answers, what I would say to whoever needs cam for low price is:
You get a full set of RE today, you save big money TODAY, you climb a lot and safe. slowly you add camalots, in a couple or more years your REs will jam or something else and you will *need* to replace them. It WILL COST MORE in the end, but you will have climbed for 2-3 years.
and. ps, this thread could go in DB vs non-BD. I once borrowed a WC so jammed I couldn't open the lobes, the force applied would bend the steam before opening it...
|
|
|
|
|
madrock
May 21, 2007, 6:32 AM
Post #18 of 42
(7180 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 11, 2002
Posts: 255
|
I've owned a Rock Empire set for about two years with no problems although not getting as much use now due to shoulder dislocation problems. They seem pretty good.
Joe
|
|
|
|
|
styndall
May 21, 2007, 6:44 AM
Post #19 of 42
(7171 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 2741
|
I've got a few of them from when they were Trango Flex Cams, before Trango developed the new style and RE picked up the old ones.
They're decent cams, especially in the wide fingers to hand sizes. The bigger ones are a little narrow, but they'll still hold just fine. The most critical thing is not to get hung up on gear. Having 50 super-pricey BD C3s won't get you up any climbs; climbing rocks will. If these cams will let you do more climbing, then go for it.
|
|
|
|
|
moggs
May 22, 2007, 3:09 AM
Post #20 of 42
(7142 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 19
|
Last weekend I was climbing in the valley. I'm just getting into trad so I was on the popular moderates. I think I saw 5 fixed cams. 1 piece was a BD cam. 1 piece was a metolius cam. the other 3 were Rock Empire.
I don't know if it's the people that buy them or something inherent in the design itself (perhaps they walk a lot) but the numbers were a bit staggering.
If you start with 8 rock empire cams or 4 BD cams right now what will you have left in a year? just something to think about.
I'm sorry I don't know what model of Rock Empire cams they were. I cleaned one last year off a route at tahquitz and it was a Robot type.
happy shopping and be safe.
-moggs
|
|
|
|
|
angry
May 22, 2007, 3:57 AM
Post #21 of 42
(7110 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
winglessangel wrote: You have a point. if you come to think about it I've heard of stories of CCH, omega and other cams that really BROKE in a fall. Never heard of a RE that broke. Can happen, but I haven't heard about.
Read my post above, I BROKE one.
Now it didn't fail in that it came out of the rock or didn't catch a fall, but a critical part broke.
It was subtle enough that I didn't notice it until the next route and I was unable to place it, I would have been in trouble if it was in a critical spot.
|
|
|
|
|
winglessangel
May 22, 2007, 1:03 PM
Post #22 of 42
(7071 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 459
|
angry wrote: Read my post above, I BROKE one. Now it didn't fail in that it came out of the rock or didn't catch a fall, but a critical part broke. It was subtle enough that I didn't notice it until the next route and I was unable to place it, I would have been in trouble if it was in a critical spot.
Sorry, but your first post wasn't clear for me. I understood that it broke because you tryed to unjam it:
angry wrote: The only way to keep them functional is to actually REMOVE the camstops. Then the thumb bar (u-stem) broke.
Anyway, I'm NOT saying that these are excelent quality gear, not even saying that they are GOOD quality gear,
just saying that if you are a complete dirtbag or make less money then a 5-yearold with a lemonade stand, RE cams could be your temp solution
even you said:
angry wrote: I've used the Rock Empire Pulsar cams extensively in the offwidth sizes. At first I loved them, they are so much lighter and cheaper than WC or BD.
anyway, I'm glad nothing more serious happened. Being let down by gear will allways suck big time. sorry, man!
|
|
|
|
|
fenderfour
May 22, 2007, 2:41 PM
Post #23 of 42
(7039 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 177
|
angry wrote: Read my post above, I BROKE one. Now it didn't fail in that it came out of the rock or didn't catch a fall, but a critical part broke. It was subtle enough that I didn't notice it until the next route and I was unable to place it, I would have been in trouble if it was in a critical spot.
What exactly broke on the cam? Trigger bar? Trigger wire?
I was looking at the Faders website and they have cams that look exactly like the RE Pulsars. Hmmm...
What do you mean "offwidth sizes"? Are we talking BD #4 and bigger? I didn't think any of the RE cams got that big.
|
|
|
|
|
studclimber
May 22, 2007, 11:54 PM
Post #24 of 42
(7007 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 46
|
I agree with styndall, if the cams get you climbing, then go for it. That said, I own a set of durango's, or flex cams, or whatver you want to call them. I use them mostly on alpine, because they weigh nothing, but I also use them on trad routes. I like them, and I don't worry as much about the possibilty of having to leave one behind on an alpine route. c4's are great, but cost a ton, so go with something you can afford, so long as it gets you out climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
slacklinejoe
May 23, 2007, 3:28 PM
Post #25 of 42
(6968 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 5, 2003
Posts: 1423
|
fenderfour wrote: I was looking at the Faders website and they have cams that look exactly like the RE Pulsars. Hmmm...
Having purchased cams from Faders before they WERE Rock Empire Cams. They didn't even re-label them or anything.
I too have a mix of cams that include RE. I have a full set of pulsar cams with the smaller durangos.
As far as I can tell most people only have issues with the "feel" of the cam, either when you squeeze the trigger or the ergonomics. They are no where as smooth as BD's or many of the other newer cams.
As Angry noted, his cam had critical failure of a non-load bearing part that disabled the cam. Fortunately this was a usability problem and not an actual failure that lead towards falling further.
This is unfortunate but please keep it in context, this happens with damn near every other cam out there - take a look at how often trigger wires pop off for the other models (especially problematic with the link cams) or other issues that crop up but don't lead to being dropped.
You'll also read about all sorts of other claims about cams walking, regardless of brand. When slung correctly I've never had a Pulsar walk, but slung short every cam I've ever used can walk a little (i.e. nature of the beast).
Also, just to say it, the durangos are fairly smooth, pulsars are a little clunky in comparison to the latest and greatest but so was every other cam developed up to 7 years ago. It's up to you to decide whether smooth as butter vs a little clunky is worth the $200+ price difference.
Would I trade my RE cams for equivalents in c4s, yep.
Do I feel safe climbing over my RE cams, as safe as any other cam I've used.
(This post was edited by slacklinejoe on May 23, 2007, 3:31 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
