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alpinestar
Jul 16, 2007, 1:26 PM
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So in one week me and my climbing partner are leaving for Pakistan to try to climg Buni Zom 6500 via a new route. 
But the latest tension in the country has really got me thinking about the trip. At the moment I am more worried about the trip to and from the mountain!  
On one hand the tour operator we are using down there say it is all blow out of por-portion, on the other hand the goverment recomends to abandon unnessary trips to pakistan...
Why cant the world just be peacefull? 
M
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coastal_climber
Jul 16, 2007, 2:28 PM
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So you can just "catch" a flight to Pakistan?
>Cam
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alpinestar
Jul 16, 2007, 2:31 PM
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Ehh Yes British Airways fly london -> Islamabad several times a week!
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Basta916
Jul 16, 2007, 2:36 PM
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good luck with that...and make sure to bring plenty Danish cartoons with you ( for a hand outs )they love them over there
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alpinestar
Jul 16, 2007, 2:41 PM
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thanks! Ha ha..think we will keep a very low profile! no flags or anything!
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ClusterFock
Jul 16, 2007, 2:57 PM
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It's perfectly safe. Just use common sense and don't stick out like dogs bollocks.
Most of all...enjoy.
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anykineclimb
Jul 16, 2007, 2:57 PM
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what outfitter are you going with? We used Nazir Sabir two years ago and they were fantastic.
BTW, once you get out of I-Bad, things are fine.
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trebork2
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Jul 16, 2007, 11:51 PM
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I would be canceling and heading somewhere else. Pakistan is no joke! Give it a few years to calm down. Go play in Alaska or head down to the Andes. I'd rather be there then in the hands of a bad country or some terrorist. But it's your choice. Believe it or not the government knows what they are talking about it.
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majid_sabet
Jul 17, 2007, 12:03 AM
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ohh You are going to love it but why 6500 meter ?
Low on cash ?
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hacksaw
Jul 17, 2007, 5:28 AM
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Come home with all your fingers and toes... And friends with all you partners. That is the most important part....
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alpinestar
Jul 17, 2007, 6:07 AM
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@anykineclimb Ashgar at jasminetours.com has been very helpfull and have come up with a good package for us.
@majid_sabet well me and my climbing partner only have 3 weeks off, no more. So we figured trying out for something higher was not really a option. Especially as we both wanted something technical. So this seems perfect, mountains has only had 3 acents, and the possibility of opening up a new route is also very nice
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crackers
Jul 18, 2007, 6:37 PM
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trebork2 wrote: Believe it or not the government knows what they are talking about it.
You know, after spending the majority of the past ten years in the middle east, caucasus and central asia, I have to say that us state department briefings are somewhere between worthless and annoying. I've never seen one reflect reality.
Maybe this could be the first time, but my personal and professional experience leads me to believe otherwise.
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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 7:18 PM
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alpinestar wrote: @anykineclimb Ashgar at jasminetours.com has been very helpfull and have come up with a good package for us. @majid_sabet well me and my climbing partner only have 3 weeks off, no more. So we figured trying out for something higher was not really a option. Especially as we both wanted something technical. So this seems perfect, mountains has only had 3 acents, and the possibility of opening up a new route is also very nice
I was close to do Broadpeak in 2000 but somehow ended in nepal in 2002 doing few 6000+. I love to go back to Pakistan and try to do one of Gs or Broadpeak.
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alpinestar
Aug 13, 2007, 6:20 AM
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So now I am back from Pakistan. No problems at all. Such nice people there! Unfortunately a greek team, with whom we shared base camp with had a fatal accident. We tried to help recover the body, but did not manage to find it. He slid about 200 meter down a 45 degrees ice slope, and out over a area with lots of crevasses. They where at the second to last rap, and instead of cliping into the ice screw anchor he just planted his axe, and cliped in to that. The axe then poped. Aster this the local police wanted everybody off the mountain, we tried to talk to them, but it did not matter, they wanted everybody down. We where perfectly acclimatized to about 5000 and ready to rock when it happed. Bummer :(
But I will have to go back! Lots of un climed peaks, and new routes
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Basta916
Aug 13, 2007, 1:07 PM
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glad You are back....Now You can practise for a second trip on unclimbed Danish peaks
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KETU
Aug 17, 2008, 2:18 PM
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Glad you made it back from the bad, rouge and terrorist country.
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sungam
Aug 17, 2008, 3:05 PM
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Are you just taking IRD too far? It's just meant to be those 20 threads...
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kachoong
Aug 18, 2008, 1:42 AM
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KETU wrote: Glad you made it back from the bad, rouge and terrorist country.
Bitter much?
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summerprophet
Aug 18, 2008, 3:30 AM
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Dude, you just had a TEXAN imply you had gone overboard with that statement. Might wanna take that into consideration.
Seriously though, remember that 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news.
Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish.
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jt512
Aug 18, 2008, 4:47 AM
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summerprophet wrote: 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news.... Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish.
Totally naive. Consider:
Percentage of Pakistani Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are justified: 29%*
Percentage of American Amish who belief that suicide bombings are justified: 0%**
*2005 Pew Global Attitudes Project.
** 2008 jt512 hunch.
Jay
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anykineclimb
Aug 18, 2008, 5:08 AM
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jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news.... Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish. Totally naive. Consider: Percentage of Pakistani Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are justified: 29%* Percentage of American Amish who belief that suicide bombings are justified: 0%** *2005 Pew Global Attitudes Project. ** 2008 jt512 hunch. Jay
wow.
really. who's naive here?
you ever meet a Pakistani? IN Pakistan??
how about meet thier families? Parents? children?
The amount of ignorance here just amazes me.
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jt512
Aug 18, 2008, 5:10 AM
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anykineclimb wrote: jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news.... Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish. Totally naive. Consider: Percentage of Pakistani Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are justified: 29%* Percentage of American Amish who belief that suicide bombings are justified: 0%** *2005 Pew Global Attitudes Project. ** 2008 jt512 hunch. Jay wow. really. who's naive here? you ever meet a Pakistani? IN Pakistan?? how about meet thier families? Parents? children? The amount of ignorance here just amazes me.
So, anecdotal evidence from meeting a few Pakistani families is more valid than a scientific survey conducted by the Pew Research Center? You, sir, are an idiot.
Edit: Obviously, the probability sample of 1225 interviews which comprised the Pew survey are no match for the fact that you're friends with some nice family in Pakistan.
In reply to: Country: Pakistan Company: ACNielsen Aftab Sample design: Probability Mode: Face-to-face adults 18 plus Languages: Urdu Fieldwork dates: May 2-24, 2005 Sample size: 1225 Margin of Error: 3% Representative: Disproportionately urban
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 18, 2008, 5:39 AM)
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summerprophet
Aug 18, 2008, 5:34 AM
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jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news.... Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish. Totally naive. Consider: Percentage of Pakistani Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are justified: 29%* Percentage of American Amish who belief that suicide bombings are justified: 0%** *2005 Pew Global Attitudes Project. ** 2008 jt512 hunch. Jay
You want to quote statistics?
Which country has contributed towards the most deaths in the last 50 years? In the last 100 years?
Which country has the largest supply of munitions designed to cause the death of other humans on the planet? Per person?
Who out of all the members of NATO has the most violations of the Geneva convention?
Which is the only developed industrialized nation to condone the death sentence? To condone Torture?
Would you be opposed to an independent group not organised by US government (say PETA for example) performing suicide bombings if Pakistani troops were occupying your state?
I doubt it, chances are you would just ignore it, as you are ignoring this as well. Ignorance and indifference are going to be the downfall of this country of yours, and you are going to slide into it without a care, peacefully hypnotized by your HD TV and high speed internet.
Your attitude saddens me more than angers me jt. I would like to wish you were a substantial minority, but sadly I am discovering you aren't.
Pakistan happens to be a first world country with similar ideals and policies as the US. The country as a whole does not condone terrorism, nor does the government in power. You are talking about a minority of people that you are prepared to persecute the majority for.
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kachoong
Aug 18, 2008, 1:42 PM
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summerprophet wrote: Dude, you just had a TEXAN imply you had gone overboard with that statement. Might wanna take that into consideration. Seriously though, remember that 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news. Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish.
...well thank you for implying that I am a pot calling the kettle black just coz I live in Texas... It seems that people judge others by where they live rather than who they are. A bit of research and you would notice I am a widely traveled Australian, but who also thinks that yes, this guys post, considering his other posts lately, has taken the posts he replied too waaaaaay out of context!
summerprophet wrote: jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news.... Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish. Totally naive. Consider: Percentage of Pakistani Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are justified: 29%* Percentage of American Amish who belief that suicide bombings are justified: 0%** *2005 Pew Global Attitudes Project. ** 2008 jt512 hunch. Jay You want to quote statistics? Which country has contributed towards the most deaths in the last 50 years? In the last 100 years? Which country has the largest supply of munitions designed to cause the death of other humans on the planet? Per person? Who out of all the members of NATO has the most violations of the Geneva convention? Which is the only developed industrialized nation to condone the death sentence? To condone Torture? Would you be opposed to an independent group not organised by US government (say PETA for example) performing suicide bombings if Pakistani troops were occupying your state? I doubt it, chances are you would just ignore it, as you are ignoring this as well. Ignorance and indifference are going to be the downfall of this country of yours, and you are going to slide into it without a care, peacefully hypnotized by your HD TV and high speed internet. Your attitude saddens me more than angers me jt. I would like to wish you were a substantial minority, but sadly I am discovering you aren't. Pakistan happens to be a first world country with similar ideals and policies as the US. The country as a whole does not condone terrorism, nor does the government in power. You are talking about a minority of people that you are prepared to persecute the majority for.
Think about your last sentence and what you are implying overall!
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jt512
Aug 18, 2008, 4:05 PM
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summerprophet wrote: jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news.... Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish. Totally naive. Consider: Percentage of Pakistani Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are justified: 29%* Percentage of American Amish who belief that suicide bombings are justified: 0%** *2005 Pew Global Attitudes Project. ** 2008 jt512 hunch. Jay You want to quote statistics? Which country has contributed towards the most deaths in the last 50 years? In the last 100 years? Which country has the largest supply of munitions designed to cause the death of other humans on the planet? Per person? Who out of all the members of NATO has the most violations of the Geneva convention? Which is the only developed industrialized nation to condone the death sentence? To condone Torture? ... Pakistan happens to be a first world country with similar ideals and policies as the US.
Brilliant!
In reply to: Ignorance and indifference are going to be the downfall of this country of yours, and you are going to slide into it without a care, peacefully hypnotized by your HD TV and high speed internet.
Ignorance and indifference are the downfall of this country! They are what allowed 9/11 to occur. They are what allowed a fundamentalist Christian to be elected, and re-elected, President. They are what has allowed us to come within 1/2 vote on the Supreme Court of a ban on a woman's right to an abortion. They are why we are in a constant struggle to prevent Bible stories from being taught as fact in science classes. And so on.
In reply to: Your attitude saddens me more than angers me jt. I would like to wish you were a substantial minority, but sadly I am discovering you aren't.... The country as a whole does not condone terrorism, nor does the government in power. You are talking about a minority of people that you are prepared to persecute the majority for.
My attitude is a minority, which is what has allowed religious fundamentalists to bring this country to its knees. It is not I, but you, who is ignorant and indifferent. I see the clear and present danger that religious fundamentalism poses to modern civilization. You, on the other hand, look at a statistic like "29% of Pakistani Muslims favor suicide bombing," and instead of finding that alarming, actually brush it off as "a minority of people." How much more ignorant and indifferent can you get than that?
Jay
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carabiner96
Aug 18, 2008, 8:29 PM
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Uhm, so....anyone get any shiny new crampons lately?
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Gmburns2000
Aug 18, 2008, 8:55 PM
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carabiner96 wrote: Uhm, so....anyone get any shiny new crampons lately?
It's August.
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carabiner96
Aug 18, 2008, 9:14 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: carabiner96 wrote: Uhm, so....anyone get any shiny new crampons lately? It's August.
Damn you and your attention to detail!
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sungam
Aug 18, 2008, 9:51 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: carabiner96 wrote: Uhm, so....anyone get any shiny new crampons lately? It's August.
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Gmburns2000
Aug 19, 2008, 2:45 AM
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carabiner96 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: carabiner96 wrote: Uhm, so....anyone get any shiny new crampons lately? It's August. Damn you and your attention to detail!
yeah, it's still hands and feet season. no dry tooling here until it's too cold in the Gunks, then I you can come out to play.
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anykineclimb
Aug 19, 2008, 5:38 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: carabiner96 wrote: Uhm, so....anyone get any shiny new crampons lately? It's August.
perfect time to buy.
I did get some Scarpa Fruit boots
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wallwombat
Aug 19, 2008, 11:18 AM
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kachoong wrote: A bit of research and you would notice I am a widely traveled Australian...
Yeah, right! Pull the other one.
If you weren't a Texan, why do you have that funny little Texan Cola Bear in your profile pic?
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sungam
Aug 19, 2008, 12:22 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: carabiner96 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: carabiner96 wrote: Uhm, so....anyone get any shiny new crampons lately? It's August. Damn you and your attention to detail! yeah, it's still hands and feet season. no dry tooling here until it's too cold in the Gunks, then I you can come out to play.
Oh noes!!! cutz the rope! cutz it now!!! land on the ledge!
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crackers
Aug 19, 2008, 1:25 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: yeah, it's still hands and feet season. no dry tooling here until it's too cold in the Gunks, then I you can come out to play.
kingston quarry.
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daggerx
Aug 27, 2008, 3:01 AM
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wow your so lucky I dream of going there one day
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majid_sabet
Aug 27, 2008, 3:54 AM
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jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news.... Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish. Totally naive. Consider: Percentage of Pakistani Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are justified: 29%* Percentage of American Amish who belief that suicide bombings are justified: 0%** *2005 Pew Global Attitudes Project. ** 2008 jt512 hunch. Jay You want to quote statistics? Which country has contributed towards the most deaths in the last 50 years? In the last 100 years? Which country has the largest supply of munitions designed to cause the death of other humans on the planet? Per person? Who out of all the members of NATO has the most violations of the Geneva convention? Which is the only developed industrialized nation to condone the death sentence? To condone Torture? ... Pakistan happens to be a first world country with similar ideals and policies as the US. Brilliant! In reply to: Ignorance and indifference are going to be the downfall of this country of yours, and you are going to slide into it without a care, peacefully hypnotized by your HD TV and high speed internet. Ignorance and indifference are the downfall of this country! They are what allowed 9/11 to occur. They are what allowed a fundamentalist Christian to be elected, and re-elected, President. They are what has allowed us to come within 1/2 vote on the Supreme Court of a ban on a woman's right to an abortion. They are why we are in a constant struggle to prevent Bible stories from being taught as fact in science classes. And so on. In reply to: Your attitude saddens me more than angers me jt. I would like to wish you were a substantial minority, but sadly I am discovering you aren't.... The country as a whole does not condone terrorism, nor does the government in power. You are talking about a minority of people that you are prepared to persecute the majority for. My attitude is a minority, which is what has allowed religious fundamentalists to bring this country to its knees. It is not I, but you, who is ignorant and indifferent. I see the clear and present danger that religious fundamentalism poses to modern civilization. You, on the other hand, look at a statistic like "29% of Pakistani Muslims favor suicide bombing," and instead of finding that alarming, actually brush it off as "a minority of people." How much more ignorant and indifferent can you get than that? Jay
Jay
you have zero understanding of international politics.
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the_leech
Aug 27, 2008, 4:18 AM
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summerprophet wrote: You are talking about a minority of people that you are prepared to persecute the majority for.
Look at that sentence. He ended it with a preposition.
Some would consider that poor grammar. However, I think it's ok.
I wonder what others think about it.
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jt512
Aug 27, 2008, 5:16 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: jt512 wrote: summerprophet wrote: 99% of the people in these countries are just like us, just looking to feed their families, watch their kids grow up and lead a peaceful life outside of the politics and warmongering that is so prevelent in the news.... Saying all Pakistanies are bad, rogues, or terrorists is roughly equivalent to saying all americans are Amish. Totally naive. Consider: Percentage of Pakistani Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are justified: 29%* Percentage of American Amish who belief that suicide bombings are justified: 0%** *2005 Pew Global Attitudes Project. ** 2008 jt512 hunch. Jay You want to quote statistics? Which country has contributed towards the most deaths in the last 50 years? In the last 100 years? Which country has the largest supply of munitions designed to cause the death of other humans on the planet? Per person? Who out of all the members of NATO has the most violations of the Geneva convention? Which is the only developed industrialized nation to condone the death sentence? To condone Torture? ... Pakistan happens to be a first world country with similar ideals and policies as the US. Brilliant! In reply to: Ignorance and indifference are going to be the downfall of this country of yours, and you are going to slide into it without a care, peacefully hypnotized by your HD TV and high speed internet. Ignorance and indifference are the downfall of this country! They are what allowed 9/11 to occur. They are what allowed a fundamentalist Christian to be elected, and re-elected, President. They are what has allowed us to come within 1/2 vote on the Supreme Court of a ban on a woman's right to an abortion. They are why we are in a constant struggle to prevent Bible stories from being taught as fact in science classes. And so on. In reply to: Your attitude saddens me more than angers me jt. I would like to wish you were a substantial minority, but sadly I am discovering you aren't.... The country as a whole does not condone terrorism, nor does the government in power. You are talking about a minority of people that you are prepared to persecute the majority for. My attitude is a minority, which is what has allowed religious fundamentalists to bring this country to its knees. It is not I, but you, who is ignorant and indifferent. I see the clear and present danger that religious fundamentalism poses to modern civilization. You, on the other hand, look at a statistic like "29% of Pakistani Muslims favor suicide bombing," and instead of finding that alarming, actually brush it off as "a minority of people." How much more ignorant and indifferent can you get than that? Jay Jay you have zero understanding of international politics.
But I have a great understanding of the danger of religion.
Jay
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