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rwaltermyer
Oct 2, 2002, 3:11 AM
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Time and time again I've heard of climbers going to Ralph Stover and coming away dissappointed. But it suprises me; based on all the climbing established there I always have to scratch my head. Nonetheless, I get the feeling that the Philly locals love this place, yet the roadtrippers seem dissappointed.
What's your take on Ralph Stover? Worth the road trip? Suggested climbs? Why do you feel others don't like this place?
[ This Message was edited by: rwaltermyer on 2002-10-01 20:15 ]
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x2drich
Oct 2, 2002, 4:14 AM
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Having climbed at Stover 2-3 times a week for the past 2 summers I can shed a little light on the the area. First the positives, there are some really good top rope routes. Tango, Obnoxious Partner, Phone Booth come to mind right away. The Practice Face has several moderate routes 5.2-5.9 that all have very easy top rope setups - perfect for beginners. Many of the more popular routes also have bolts at the top to use as anchors for top ropes. For those who want adventure, wonder down to the grey walls. While small, very few of the routes in that area have names or ratings published which adds to the enjoyment.
On the negative side if you are looking to lead (trad) Stover is not a great place to go. The rock is very dirty due to erosion. In addition, the rock tends to break off fairly easily making leading a little more dangerous. Also stover is less then 3 hours drive from the gunks, which in my opinion is a FAR better & safer spot to lead.
As far as why locals like it, I think it comes down to the uniqueness of the rock & closeness to home. Many holds are polished smooth and require precise footwork not to slide off. What I like about it the most is how close it is to home (20 minutes) so I can head there after work climb for an hour, then head home.
On a side note: While I was there today I noticed some spots of the trail under the main cliff are eroding away. At spots the trail is less then 2' wide with a 20-30' drop off. Everytime I'm there it seems like more and more of the trail is disappearing. Does anyone know if a trail work day is planned to fix this situation before the trail completely vanishes?
DJ
[ This Message was edited by: x2drich on 2002-10-01 21:17 ]
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climbinganne
Nov 22, 2002, 4:40 PM
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i have only been to high rocks once...the weekend weather did not look favorable but i drove the almost 3 hours from my house there. i was with good friends on what ended up being a beautiful day enjoying that slippery as hell rock climbing with them...and they were very familiar with highrocks...we didnt have to wait "in line" for some of the "classic climbs"..but i noticed others did.
i also noticed the erosion of the trail, having two small children, it definatly needs work.
so i guess the question comes down to would i return again, perhaps, i thought the climbing was a lot of fun, but i can only imagine what it is like on a nice day, busy huh...
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leaverbiner
Nov 22, 2002, 4:54 PM
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Not worth the trip!
If you are local, it is better than nothing, and, if you are trying to show a beginner how things are done, then fine you can set up some top ropes and make a day of it . . . but I woudl say it is certainly not worth any length of drive . . . go to the Gunks, or head to the NRG . . .
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kagunkie
Nov 24, 2002, 2:03 PM
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rokshoxbkr19
Oct 26, 2004, 2:13 PM
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is there any difficult trad there? For all of you who will want to jump on me by what I mean by difficult I am referring to 5.10 and up, preferrably above the 5.10 grade. Is any of the rock quality good? Fill me in please, I am thinking about going this weekend
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gblauer
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Oct 26, 2004, 2:52 PM
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Eric...the rock is terrible. Do not trad climb at Stover! Stick to the Gunks etc.
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kimmyt
Oct 26, 2004, 5:44 PM
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Slippery, polished holds.
But, like others said, better than nothing.
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woodthrush
Oct 26, 2004, 8:03 PM
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I've never seen anyone even trying to lead a route at Stover. I go every couple of weeks. The rock is slate - very easliy broken hardened mud, pretty much. There is a lot to toprope, though. I like the Far Face - you gotta go up quick or your fingers start slipping out of the polished, dirty holds! Either you have a flat, vertical face with cracks like Far Face or you have overhanging rock with nice, big holds (look harder than they are) like Phone Booth. Anyway, it's a fun place to toprope - would be very scary to lead. Go climb it before it all erodes away!
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deleted
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Oct 26, 2004, 8:08 PM
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Ralph Stover sucks, its a choss pile. Soft friable rock that gets polished easy, it's just compacted river sediment that is hardened. Sharp flakes that bust off, and hurt to crimp. Forget climbing there in the summer with the humidity and the lack of rock friction it's like trying to climb a greased pig with sharp ears. No good routes, just a few death trad routes.
Go to water gap or the Gunks etc.
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Oct 26, 2004, 8:12 PM
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[quote:909cc46558="rokshoxbkr19"]is there any difficult trad there? For all of you who will want to jump on me by what I mean by difficult I am referring to 5.10 and up, preferrably above the 5.10 grade. Is any of the rock quality good? Fill me in please, I am thinking about going this weekend[/quote:909cc46558]
Yeah, there all X death routes.
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mingus
Oct 26, 2004, 8:20 PM
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I have led nearly every route at Stover back in the day and led FAs ground up. Even then people said the rock was too poor to lead on; it wasn't true then and it isn't true now. While there are dangerous routes there are plenty of routes with solid rock and good gear.
I'm not trying to flame everyone; just very surprised that everyone thinks it's just a TR crag. It ain't the Gunks but it is a nice little winter crag for locals and certainly worth a few hours drive when you don't have time for a 4hr or more trip to the Gunks. Plus it's a LOT warmer than the Gunks many days.
For harder stuff get on CRC, The Crypt, and Riff Raff Eliminate along with all of the later additions. It's my understanding there are a few good bolt lines, too. Sorry I don't have more explicit info but it's been quite a while and I haven't looked at a guide for almost as long.
BTW the oldest guide I have calls it Brunswick Shale - it's not slate.
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Oct 26, 2004, 8:22 PM
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[quote:4cc6b39f29="mingus"]I have led nearly every route at Stover back in the day and led FAs ground up. Even then people said the rock was too poor to lead on; it wasn't true then and it isn't true now. While there are dangerous routes there are plenty of routes with solid rock and good gear.
I'm not trying to flame everyone; just very surprised that everyone thinks it's just a TR crag. It ain't the Gunks but it is a nice little winter crag for locals and certainly worth a few hours drive when you don't have time for a 4hr or more trip to the Gunks. Plus it's a LOT warmer than the Gunks many days.
For harder stuff get on CRC, The Crypt, and Riff Raff Eliminate along with all of the later additions. It's my understanding there are a few good bolt lines, too. Sorry I don't have more explicit info but it's been quite a while and I haven't looked at a guide for almost as long.
BTW the oldest guide I have calls it Brunswick Shale - it's not slate.[/quote:4cc6b39f29]
Thats' what every FA says about their area. Of course they want you to go there and bust your ass on their sandbags.
The place reaks of death and disappointment.
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bobd1953
Oct 26, 2004, 8:44 PM
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In reply to: Go to water gap or the Gunks etc.
Why not the Wilkes-Barre area?
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mingus
Oct 26, 2004, 8:48 PM
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Sandbags? I have just a few FAs there; I'm not trying to convince anyone to go there 'cause it's obvious the place doesn't need any more gumbies. One poster has actually never seen anyone leading?! That's a sad state of affairs. Ya don't have to like it, plenty of people don't, but it simply isn't true that it's death defying to lead there.
rwaltermyer get your butt up there and see for yourself. You have all winter to check it out. It's a nice little trad crag. We should go up next time I'm back that way.
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dredsovrn
Oct 26, 2004, 9:42 PM
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I am beginning to think this is locals trying to keep people away. I was there a few weeks ago and did some leading. There was no shortage of climbers there. Not a lot of leaders, but some. There are definitely polished holds on trade routes, but the dirt on some of the routes appeared to be from lack of climbing. The non TR routes don't seem to get a lot of traffic. The rock quality seemed good in most places, and I have placed gear that was a lot worse.
As stated by others, it's not the Gunks, but neither are most places you climb in the east. I think the guide had something like 80 routes. I would bet if people venture beyond the immeadiate vacinity of the pracitce wall, they might find some good routes. Although, they will probably have to lead them. Seemed like fun to me.
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Oct 26, 2004, 10:03 PM
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[quote:ba1eb41786="dredsovrn"]I am beginning to think this is locals trying to keep people away. I was there a few weeks ago and did some leading. There was no shortage of climbers there. Not a lot of leaders, but some. There are definitely polished holds on trade routes, but the dirt on some of the routes appeared to be from lack of climbing. The non TR routes don't seem to get a lot of traffic. The rock quality seemed good in most places, and I have placed gear that was a lot worse.
As stated by others, it's not the Gunks, but neither are most places you climb in the east. I think the guide had something like 80 routes. I would bet if people venture beyond the immeadiate vacinity of the pracitce wall, they might find some good routes. Although, they will probably have to lead them. Seemed like fun to me.[/quote:ba1eb41786]
hahha no, no ,no come one come all we need to thin the herd of climbers one way or another ahhahaa
:D
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dredsovrn
Oct 27, 2004, 12:23 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I am beginning to think this is locals trying to keep people away. I was there a few weeks ago and did some leading. There was no shortage of climbers there. Not a lot of leaders, but some. There are definitely polished holds on trade routes, but the dirt on some of the routes appeared to be from lack of climbing. The non TR routes don't seem to get a lot of traffic. The rock quality seemed good in most places, and I have placed gear that was a lot worse. As stated by others, it's not the Gunks, but neither are most places you climb in the east. I think the guide had something like 80 routes. I would bet if people venture beyond the immeadiate vacinity of the pracitce wall, they might find some good routes. Although, they will probably have to lead them. Seemed like fun to me. hahha no, no ,no come one come all we need to thin the herd of climbers one way or another ahhahaa :D
I am curious then. Where do you lead that, in your opinion, the rock is not deadly for gear? Anywhere besides the gunks?
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rokshoxbkr19
Oct 27, 2004, 1:56 AM
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In addition to Dred's post I would have to say that trad routes a lot of people consider to be R/X rated would in my mind be protected adequately. I am curious not only as to where people lead that they are comparing Stover against, but also to how hard you people lead. I am not saying that harder is better, but simply that more often then not, harder routes are harder to protect and lack the comfortable G rating found on many sub 5.10 routes.
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petmac
Nov 3, 2004, 8:11 PM
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is there any ice there
pete
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dingus
Nov 3, 2004, 8:23 PM
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I don't understand this continuous reference to the Gunks.
The Gunks are a world class trad area with miles of cliffs. Stover is a pebble by comparison.
It's local. That's why its popular. End of story.
Like road trip to Ralph Stover??? LOL! What a complete waste of good gasoline.
I'm sorry, we have little shit rocks round these parts too. Twould be like asking...
Hmmm, Cosumnes Gorge vs Yosemite.
DMT
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dredsovrn
Nov 4, 2004, 1:11 AM
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In reply to: I don't understand this continuous reference to the Gunks. The Gunks are a world class trad area with miles of cliffs. Stover is a pebble by comparison. It's local. That's why its popular. End of story. Like road trip to Ralph Stover??? LOL! What a complete waste of good gasoline. I'm sorry, we have little s--- rocks round these parts too. Twould be like asking... Hmmm, Cosumnes Gorge vs Yosemite. DMT
Maybe if you read the posts you will understand. I don't think Stover is being favorably compared to the Gunks. I don't think there is a mystery as to the popularity of one over the other either.
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dredsovrn
Nov 4, 2004, 1:13 AM
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In reply to: is there any ice there pete
I was wondering the same thing. Under the right conditions, I think there might be, but I am not certain.
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fishbelly
Nov 4, 2004, 2:55 PM
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Its worth one trip . Then you can decide if its worth a return
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dingus
Nov 4, 2004, 3:04 PM
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In reply to: Maybe if you read the posts you will understand. I don't think Stover is being favorably compared to the Gunks. I don't think there is a mystery as to the popularity of one over the other either.
Ahhhhhhh, maybe if I read the posts all will be clear eh?
Ya know, I never thought of THAT. Hmmm. Let me ponder on that for a while.
OK, I thought about it. Mentioning Stover and the Gunks as possible alternative destinations is freaking FUNNY!
Stover is a pile.
DMT
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scottface
Nov 4, 2004, 4:13 PM
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Stover: Like it cause it's local
Gunks: Luv it!
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mingus
Nov 4, 2004, 4:56 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: is there any ice there pete I was wondering the same thing. Under the right conditions, I think there might be, but I am not certain.
I always thought the Long Chimney would make a good mixed or possibly fully iced route on very rare occasions.
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roclimb
Nov 4, 2004, 5:33 PM
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Reigle/kintnersvelle I think is the best spot for ice near stover.
If you live near Philly Stover is certainly worth a visit. I prefer the nearby clif called "the Edge". I lthink the ribbed overhanging sandstone there much better than a few miles away at Stover.
Just my opinion though, I'm sure some would disagree.
~rob :D
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cjsimpso
Sep 13, 2006, 3:45 PM
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I know this is an old thread, but I thought'd Id add my $0.02. First, the rock is actually Argolyte, which I don't know much about other than that it is rare. It is definitely the slickest rock I've ever been on, but that doens't mean it isn't good for climbing. And some of the bolted rotues (Welcome to Stover, Tales from the Crypt, Deans list, to name a few) are very solid, albeit not amusement-park bolted like some of the premier places (Rumney?) Of course, my experience in general is very limited, especially on the sharp end, but I'd definitely agree that Stover is at least worth a first trip.
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wiggum
Sep 13, 2006, 5:12 PM
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That is a good way to put it cjsimpso. However, I have a little different way of looking at Stover....You either hate it because of the amount of posion ivy covering great routes, or because the rock is so slick that shoes are almost useless, etc. Or you love Stover because it makes you be so percise with your foot placement, and really works your upper body. That is just my $0.02.
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wiggum
Sep 13, 2006, 5:14 PM
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That is a good way to put it cjsimpso. However, I have a little different way of looking at Stover....You either hate it because of the amount of posion ivy covering great routes, or because the rock is so slick that shoes are almost useless, etc. Or you love Stover because it makes you be so percise with your foot placement, and really works your upper body. That is just my $0.02.
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timh
Sep 13, 2006, 5:40 PM
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Stover also has the distinction of being one of the few places were some of the routes have actually gotten longer, due to erosion.
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tomcat
Sep 15, 2006, 6:34 PM
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Tomcat here.Mingus and I are old buddies,we cut our teeth there at Stover,and along with some other buds developed a lot of routes there. I find it comical that people would not lead there at Stover,there are many good,challenging routes there,with decent protection.It's true,it's not the Gunks,not many places are,and if you plan on only climbing gunk quality rock you won't get very far.
Stover has some great leads for moderate leaders.Airy route to Hummingbird is safe and goes over a pretty big overhang for a 5.4.
Neaderthal was the cliff classic back in the day,both pitches of that are totally safe.
Route Two is another good 5.4 lead.
Tango,better yet Tango Superdirect has great climbing.
Tales From the Crypt,I'm biased,the middle pitch is admittedly choss,but the last part on the arete with nice exposure is primo 5.6. We put that line up sans any bolts,now there are two.
Friable Alternative coupled with Rattlesnake's second pitch is pretty decent.
Hawk's Neck,the route just left of Hawk's Nest,is nice.5.9
Riff-Raff eliminate is good too.5.9
At the edge, the initial nice dihedral is Fruition,5.8,and takes good gear.
Around behind that buttress is Shattered,on the left in the corner,5.9+,and on the right is Flattered,also good.All led on FA.
Behind the Great Wall,yeah we led that on nuts,is a great route that traverses out over space,the Rotwand. The rock on that is as good as English Grit. We left some pins in that.5.9.
Leading at the Edge isn't for everyone,it takes stamina to place pro often enough to stay off the deck. But if you learn to lead at these cliffs,you are all set for all but the stoutest places.
I have climbed throughout the East,the West at many places,and abroad. The rock is as good as much of the desert Southwest,not the creek of course. Point is though,I learned more about alpine climbing there than anywhere I ever climbed,including Cannon. Yep,there is some loose rock,you have to climb with your on board computer working all the time,distributing your weight,you can't just yard on stuff. It's not all 'G' rated.
But it's all good....
Ice sometimes forms on the weeping wall between CRC and New Generation.Modern day climbers might fire that,tough to get any pro in it though. The ice climbing at Kintnersville,now they call it the Narrows is primo and stood me in good stead when I moved to N.H.
And Mingus is right,in winter it can be very sweet in the Gorge.Polished rock,you bet,but Stoney Middleton is worse.
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NJ_Climber
Nov 10, 2008, 3:07 PM
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I live in NJ and it takes me about 1 1/2 hours to get to Stover. With that in mind, I drive to Stover at least once a week. The rock is fun, challenging and top ropes are easy to set. (Most popular routes are bolted with chains.)
I would be disappointed if I had to drive over 3 hours to get here especially if you are in the Northeast since the Gunks are so close plus if you are further south just hit up New River Gorge or Seneca.
But if you are close and within 2 hours driving, Go. You'll have a great time.
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coolcat83
Nov 10, 2008, 4:00 PM
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i've top roped at stover a couple times. it's slick and challenging with overhangs. as for leading, i haven't done it there, but most of the placements I've seen were slick and often flaring so just keep it in mind. other than that it's a great place to go if it's not far from you, especially when it's a little cooler out because the cliff heats up like an oven reflecting the sun.
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lunchbag
Nov 10, 2008, 5:13 PM
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Ditto regarding Tomcat's post. There are plenty of worthwhile leads as noted with fair to good protection. Neanderthal is a perfect example of a decent route with good gear, although the crux is no give me. I believe that many leaders are intimidated by the slickness of the rock, thus the negative responses. If you are solid at placing gear and a strong climber most of the mentioned routes are not a problem.
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