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vtrescuekid
Aug 2, 2007, 2:08 PM
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I've started getting into Trad climbing and I've got a set of cams, set of stoppers and some tri-cams, but I wanted to pick up some hex's to start practicing placing them as well. I don't want to buy a full set of hex's right now, so what are the more commonly used hex sizes? I figure I'll pick up some and practice with them before getting a full set. Thanks!
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summerprophet
Aug 2, 2007, 2:21 PM
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Your answer is really dependant on the area you climb in.
Personally I only take size 6 and up. Even then I only really take hexes on long mountain routes where their weight and cost make them the gear of choice (especially when retreating).
If you are looking at regularly having them on your rack, ask local climbers what they recommend.
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granite_grrl
Aug 2, 2007, 2:40 PM
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I'll carry BD #5-10. The 5 is almost too small, and there have been times I've wanted the #11 (lighter/cheaper to double up with hexes for larger gear rather than cams).
What are you looking to use them for? Maybe something like the #8 or 9 size.
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crackers
Aug 2, 2007, 2:41 PM
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summerprophet wrote: Personally I only take size 6 and up. Even then I only really take hexes on long mountain routes where their weight and cost make them the gear of choice (especially when retreating).
I go 5 and up...6-8 are the most useful ever bail pieces for long mountain routes that I've come across. They're big enough that you can check them easily even in the worst conditions, and you can hit them with your hammer even when you're so tired you can't get your tools to stick.
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winglessangel
Aug 2, 2007, 2:45 PM
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I started Trad last year. In feb I suffered an accident and stayed away from climbing for a while.
That just to say that I haven't climb trad enough and I may be wrong, but as far as I know Hexes are good on the larger sizes, the small ones work almost like nuts, i.e. if you only climb small cracks, you can stay with nuts.
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rocloco
Aug 2, 2007, 3:01 PM
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I use hexes (curved), all the sizes, all the time. My favorite placements actually. I don't know why people don't use them more. I place them much more often than nuts and where many folks use cams I slot my hexes. Takes a little practice to get really proficient with them, but they are my favorite pro by far. The best thing is that it saves the cams for when things get really dicey and you need an instantaneous placement.
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ericbeyeler
Aug 2, 2007, 3:22 PM
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rocloco wrote: I use hexes (curved), all the sizes, all the time. My favorite placements actually. I don't know why people don't use them more. I place them much more often than nuts and where many folks use cams I slot my hexes. Takes a little practice to get really proficient with them, but they are my favorite pro by far. The best thing is that it saves the cams for when things get really dicey and you need an instantaneous placement.
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dingus
Aug 2, 2007, 3:49 PM
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I have hexes, They hang on a peg in the garage. I occasionally use them for alpine, but only occasionally.
to one poster... hexes behave like nuts because they ARE nuts. Hexed shaped nuts!
I'll suggest this... if you show up to climb Yosemite's smooth sided cracks with a rack of hexes and a few supplemental cams? You will WEEP bitter tears before journey's end.
I'm sure they have their places. Smooth sided granite flairs tain't it!
Oh and they sound like cow bells when you walk around with several of them. Sportsters will make fun of you. (true story, a local self-declared sport-climbing 'hardman' (oxymoron but whatever) called my buddy Burl 'a Bovine climber' one day for disturbing his Wah as we walked by)
I wanted to set local hardman's VW bug in the ditch as we left but Burl refused to cooperate.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Aug 2, 2007, 3:50 PM)
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vtrescuekid
Aug 2, 2007, 4:39 PM
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I have to say this has probably been the best group of replies I've gotten to a post here on RC.com With that said, I'll pick up 5-8 and play around with those for now. Thanks for the replies!
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winglessangel
Aug 2, 2007, 5:16 PM
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dingus wrote: I to one poster... hexes behave like nuts because they ARE nuts. Hexed shaped nuts!
dingus wrote: Oh and they sound like cow bells when you walk around with several of them. Sportsters will make fun of you. (true story, a local self-declared sport-climbing 'hardman' (oxymoron but whatever) called my buddy Burl 'a Bovine climber' one day for disturbing his Wah as we walked by)
I never tryied and probably never will, but have you considered this? ehehehehheeh
(This post was edited by winglessangel on Aug 2, 2007, 5:18 PM)
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robbovius
Aug 2, 2007, 5:17 PM
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Dingus, for sure Hexes hate smooth cracks. they need some roughness/features/converging taper in the crack to really work well. there are a couple climbs local to me which really take hexes nicely.
they make awesome nut-tool hammers too ;-)
(This post was edited by robbovius on Aug 2, 2007, 5:40 PM)
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cracklover
Aug 2, 2007, 5:22 PM
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Dingus - they actually work quite well in a number of Yosemite moderate cracks (5.8 and under).
I often carry sizes 6-10.
Sizes 1-5 are awful. They're just like nuts that don't set well.
GO
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dingus
Aug 2, 2007, 5:25 PM
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winglessangel wrote: I never tryied and probably never will, but have you considered this? ehehehehheeh
I have considered them. Almost pulled the trigger on them once. Thanks
Cheers
DMT
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Gmburns2000
Aug 2, 2007, 5:26 PM
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cracklover wrote: Dingus - they actually work quite well in a number of Yosemite moderate cracks (5.8 and under). I often carry sizes 6-10. Sizes 1-5 are awful. They're just like nuts that don't set well. GO
Maybe it's just a lack of experience on my part, but I have a few small-sized hexes and love them. I've never had a problem setting them when I've used them and have never had one come out on a fall or rest spot or any other time. I don't use them for small cracks exclusively. I'll use my nuts first, but, like I said, I don't think small hexes are useless. There's a place for everything, depending on where you're climbing, of course.
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dingus
Aug 2, 2007, 5:37 PM
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cracklover wrote: Dingus - they actually work quite well in a number of Yosemite moderate cracks (5.8 and under). I often carry sizes 6-10. Sizes 1-5 are awful. They're just like nuts that don't set well. GO
I hear ya buddy. Reworded - they work OK on a handful of Yosemite beginner cracks. Take those things into the business on 9s and 10s and up? Yuk!
(ps I used hexes and Chouinard nuts almost exclusively for a decade or so, you're not going to convince me of their superiority over cams, not by weight or any other measure. They are a compromise I'm sometimes willing to make but I object to any claims of 'better.' Adequate is about the best you can hope for imo.)
DMT
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medicus
Aug 2, 2007, 5:39 PM
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ericbeyeler wrote: rocloco wrote: As far as size goes, the "sweet spot" for hexes seems to be the #5 - #8. Personally, I will say #6-8. I rarely use #5, and I use #9 more often than #5, but I still don't use the 9 as often as 6,7, and 8.
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robbovius
Aug 2, 2007, 5:43 PM
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cracklover wrote: Sizes 1-5 are awful. They're just like nuts that don't set well. GO
I disagree Gabe, I keep my tiny hexes on my main rack with my nuts, and in the right placement - say, a constriction that tapers too sharply to get three good points on a nut - they're great.
hexes are only similar to nuts if you only use them in cracks tapers enough to grip the converging angled sides, as a shallower constriction will grip the more shallowly tapered sides of a nut. in more parallel placements, when the hex's rotational "camming" ability is being utilized, it's a mistake to treat them as nuts.
most hex placements I make I am careful to orient the wire to pull as much rotation as I can get, an wedge it into the crack sides as "cammed" as possible. it's really not much like setting a nut, which always takes a straight pull.
Dingus, I don't think anyone is claiming that they're superior to cams in any way, but they do have their place in the trad gear hierarchy.
(This post was edited by robbovius on Aug 2, 2007, 5:45 PM)
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cracklover
Aug 2, 2007, 6:39 PM
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Rob, if you can get good placements from small hexes, more power to you. I can't.
robbovius wrote: Dingus, I don't think anyone is claiming that they're superior to cams in any way, but they do have their place in the trad gear hierarchy.
Actually, I would claim exactly that. Talking about Yosemite 5.10 is all well and good, but the OP is a new leader in Vermont. I think I actually have something to say to him.
Take this as a good or a bad thing, but I'd say I'm pretty much an expert on easy leads here in the Northeast! For most of my nearly 10 years of climbing, I've been leading fairly easy routes. Only in the last few years or so have I started doing more hard routes than easy ones. That's why I feel like I have a perspective that could actually be valuable to this guy.
So, with all that said, here's why I think hexes are sometimes better than cams. On many climbs I've done here out east in the 5.4-5.8 range, many of the protection possibilities are in broken corners in which you often have large cracks that open up as they go in. In such cracks, you're better off with a hex than a cam every single time.
GO
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ericbeyeler
Aug 2, 2007, 7:02 PM
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medicus wrote: ericbeyeler wrote: As far as size goes, the "sweet spot" for hexes seems to be the #5 - #8. Personally, I will say #6-8. I rarely use #5, and I use #9 more often than #5, but I still don't use the 9 as often as 6,7, and 8.
I'm also on the east coast (PA) and certain kinds of cracks just won't take cams (e.g. like cracklover mentioned), but hexes rock. Especially the "V" type formation where a nut is just too straight, and a cam would have no hope of staying in... but the hex is bomber. I'll have to dig and try and find a pic.
(This post was edited by ericbeyeler on Aug 2, 2007, 7:04 PM)
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rocloco
Aug 2, 2007, 9:44 PM
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dingus wrote: I have hexes, They hang on a peg in the garage. I occasionally use them for alpine, but only occasionally. to one poster... hexes behave like nuts because they ARE nuts. Hexed shaped nuts! I'll suggest this... if you show up to climb Yosemite's smooth sided cracks with a rack of hexes and a few supplemental cams? You will WEEP bitter tears before journey's end. I'm sure they have their places. Smooth sided granite flairs tain't it! Oh and they sound like cow bells when you walk around with several of them. Sportsters will make fun of you. (true story, a local self-declared sport-climbing 'hardman' (oxymoron but whatever) called my buddy Burl 'a Bovine climber' one day for disturbing his Wah as we walked by) I wanted to set local hardman's VW bug in the ditch as we left but Burl refused to cooperate. DMT
They can behave quite differently than regular nuts since you can get the camming action with them too.
Sure, you can't use em everywhere, but yes you can get great placements even if the crack has smooth, granite sides. Smooth flares, yeah not so much. Thank goodness there's more to climbing than smooth flares, cause I do love placing my hexes.
Yes that distinctive cow bell noise is really annoying, but you can keep em quiet pretty easily with a runner wrapped around em. I don't take hexes on sporto routes though, draws are really the way to go for that type of climbing. 
For me, hexes are the most versatile piece out there. But don't get me wrong. I love my cams and that's why I save them for when the climbing gets hard and I need fast slots. When I can though, hexes all the way. Yes, I get made fun of all the time by my buddies for bringing then a long, but sure enough, I usually end up using all of them. Gotta have the eye for it...
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dingus
Aug 2, 2007, 10:10 PM
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cracklover wrote: Rob, if you can get good placements from small hexes, more power to you. I can't. robbovius wrote: Dingus, I don't think anyone is claiming that they're superior to cams in any way, but they do have their place in the trad gear hierarchy. Actually, I would claim exactly that. Talking about Yosemite 5.10 is all well and good, but the OP is a new leader in Vermont. I think I actually have something to say to him.
I have something to say to him too...
BUY SOME CAMS!
DMT
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joeforte
Aug 2, 2007, 11:00 PM
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dingus wrote: I have something to say to him too... BUY SOME CAMS! DMT
You obviously have not been paying any attention to the OP. He ALREADY HAS a full set of cams.
And to the OP, the 4-5 largest sizes are the way to go. I love the wild country dyneema slung hexes. I sold my full set of BD's to buy the 4 largest WC's.
And for the cowbell sound... If you pull the sling halfway through the other side of the hex, and clip both sides, they are quieter and tangle less.
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rocloco
Aug 3, 2007, 12:03 AM
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Yeah 4, 5, 6, and 7 are the best to start with. My #7 metolius is my favorite hex.
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dan2see
Aug 3, 2007, 3:20 AM
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Earlier this spring, we needed to get the winter rust out or our systems. So we did some gear-only sport climbs. We both did the same routes, independently.
I placed only hexes, and he placed only cams.
They all looked good, and felt good.
So the lesson is: It doesn't matter much what kind of gear you use, if it works.
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 3, 2007, 3:51 AM
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All depends on how close to your limit you want to climb. Cams are better hands down, period, end of fuckin story! hexes are a specialty piece. Ok for hammering into icy cracks and dropping in the ocasional pocket. Never cary them unless I know the climb requires them or I don't have enough big cams. Kids from VT should give Rose Crack a go up at Bolton. Try that sucker with cam and then try it with hexes. that should answer your question pretty well. I get mighty sick of kids telling me how great hexes are when I was useing hexes before they were even born
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