I like to push myself hard. I find I like to get up Trad climbs where I'm out of gas at some point and need to take a rest on my gear.

Do you consider this a No-no? I can climb easier routes all day but I don't feel like I'm pushing myself. By resting on my gear some on a tough climb I feel like I progress faster.

What say you?

I like to push myself hard. I find I like to get up Trad climbs where I'm out of gas at some point and need to take a rest on my gear.

Do you consider this a No-no? I can climb easier routes all day but I don't feel like I'm pushing myself. By resting on my gear some on a tough climb I feel like I progress faster.

What say you?

I rest on gear all the time when I'm working a project. Usually something hard, single pitch.

I guess it's just a tactic I picked up from sport climbing, working individual moves and taking to rest.

I suppose some would call it bad style, but I don't really give a hoot. But, if I think I have a chance to onsight the climb, I won't do it until I fall.

But VTG is right, taking on gear is aid. But it can be a useful tool if you're working a route.

is your point about falling, just to gain confidence in climbing hard over your gear? i agree that is one way to push yourself, but it sounds like he wants to push a little slower than taking lead falls.

To me, having to rest on gear is failure to the greatest degree. The goal when I free climb is to lead a route cleanly. If I rest on gear, it means I gave up. It means I was climbing so poorly that, even though the moves were'nt too hard for me to do, I managed to climb so inefficiently that I got too tired to finish the route.

I really don't see how frequently getting in over your head and hanging on gear on a route could improve your climbing faster than climbing at or near your limit. At your limit, you can focus on climbing smoothly and efficiently, and with the best technique - skills that will more quickly bring you to the next level.

I really don't see how frequently getting in over your head and hanging on gear on a route could improve your climbing faster than climbing at or near your limit. At your limit, you can focus on climbing smoothly and efficiently, and with the best technique - skills that will more quickly bring you to the next level.

I like to push myself hard. I find I like to get up Trad climbs where I'm out of gas at some point and need to take a rest on my gear.

Do you consider this a No-no? I can climb easier routes all day but I don't feel like I'm pushing myself. By resting on my gear some on a tough climb I feel like I progress faster.

What say you?

I won't get into the stylistic side of things, because that's all in how you approach and feel about climbing ethics and what have you. However if you rest on gear, do not claim that you've made an ascent of that route. To some it is bad style, to others it is more than appropriate, but to anyone you have not made a successful ascent of that route, and so long as at the end of the day you still consider it a project for yourself , then all is well. Oh, and obviously, if you don't think the gear will really hold to begin with, I wouldn't suggest resting on it

just semantics here, but you can still say you did the route, you just can't say you did it clean. I've done plenty of climbs where I took a fall or took on a piece and finished, and I tell people I've done them. It's not like I was never there!

And depending on the context, I'll tell them I dogged it or took a fall too. But I don't trot out the full scoop on what actually happened on the climb unless context warrants it.

If it's a good climb, I may go back and try to get it clean, maybe not. If it's a rotten climb, that's probably the end of it. Don't really give a hoot what people think of as good or bad style.

i'm confused by your statement

Were talking on the same thing here, which is what I mean by successful ascent. More or less it isn't going on your ticklist or 8a scorecard yet

I'd disagree with this. Think of it like working a hard sport project. Maybe you're not into that, and that's cool. But it can be fun to have a line you're really interested in. Like a hard sport project, you may not even be able to pull the individual moves each time out. The climb may be beta intensive. The best climbers in the world put in multiple attempts on their hardest climbs. Some of them may do it the traditional ground up way, and some probably TR and then dog it to work sequences. Whatever floats your boat!

But back to the quote, it's not always about 'getting better.' Sometimes its about a cool climb that you want to do, and doing hard moves. And on such a project, the difference between your first attempt and second attempt can be dramatic.

Oh, I'm not talking about something that's way way over your head, that you have no chance of redpointing in like 20 tries. Just something hard.

Just remember, you can't onsight everything! Or if you do, are you really trying?

i feel like this thread was about resting on gear in general and not about redpointing cracks though...

I decided it was stupid to break my leg over the principle that resting on gear is some type of failure and should be avoided at all costs.

I decided my leg bones were worth more than that - a lot more.

Just a personal point of view mind you.

DMT

I prefer to free climb routes. I take much more pride and have a much greater sense of accomplishment when I complete a route cleanly without weighting the rope. Top-rope, lead, etc. - the type of protection doesn't matter as whether or not I use it. In my own mind, if I hang on the rope, I have not "done" the route.

From a post by JimDavis earlier this month:

"Around 1pm on Saturday a climber took about a 20' leader fall when they attempted to rest on a tri-cam they placed, which pulled out when weighted. They fell, hitting a ledge on the way down, resulting in a severe compound fracture to their left ankle."

Trad placements just aren't the same as 3/8-inch expansion bolts... Otherwise, you should do whatever you want without regard for other's opinions. Afterall, it's only a game.

If you ask me, there is only one true way to know when you're gear is gonna hold or not...

If you *truly* suck at placing gear then the first fall could likely be the Final Exam. Not so sure I would *follow* this logic but what ever. Its not like anything we talk about here has any bearing on reality!

DMT

blah blah blah

oh c'mon, hanging on gear doesn't necessarily mean you're a failure. it only means you're a weak coward, which is many, many times better than a failure. like, you're not a loser. you're just weak, and scared. anyone making it out to be more than that is just trying hurt your feelings!!

damn straight! fucking chalk-aiders!!

damn straight! fucking chalk-aiders!!

I hates dem damn sticky shoe people! Damn dem! Me boots have the hobnails or die!!!

Get rid of that sissy modern harness too!

Swami belts 4lyfe!

oh c'mon, hanging on gear doesn't necessarily mean you're a failure. it only means you're a weak coward, which is many, many times better than a failure. like, you're not a loser. you're just weak, and scared. anyone making it out to be more than that is just trying hurt your feelings!!

Get rid of that sissy modern harness too!

Swami belts 4lyfe!

Alright, calm down there Henry. I dont know about you but I dont like rope burn in my armpits everytime I take a fall.

What kind of sissified climber are you?
I suppose you use one of those modern belay devices too instead of the tried and true hip belay?

Belay!? If I fall, I dive across the nearest sharp edge to sever the rope and save my partner.

Bravo!
That is the true and only Hardcore style!
We must all strive to follow your brave example!

Yes, I do rest on my gear, my nuts anyway, I trust them, and it's a good way to test them. Anyway, my arms burn out and get pumped sometimes, so I have to take a rest then while stretching out my arms before continuing with the climb.

Suffice to say that, in the context of this thread, I don't have anything resembling a set of rules I always follow.

Bravo!
That is the true and only Hardcore style!
We must all strive to follow your brave example!

Yes, I do rest on my gear, my nuts anyway, I trust them, and it's a good way to test them. Anyway, my arms burn out and get pumped sometimes, so I have to take a rest then while stretching out my arms before continuing with the climb.

I'm surprised...

I don't like testing trad placements, either by hanging on them or falling on them.

Gmburns2000:I've decked twice:

1) while resting on a cam on a pumpy, layback crack. The cam popped (bad placement) and I fell about 10 feet onto my bum. I slid a bit down the slabby belay station, but no injuries; except to my belayor who managed to get rope burn on his finger because it was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I think the main difference between sport and trad (IMHO) is that trad is a mental game. Trad is about independence, being able to climb a multipitch route bottom up, no preplaced gear and nothing left behind. This means route finding, gear placing, move sequencing for strength efficiency and stances to place gear from et.
None of this is part of sport climbing.
In short I think of the trad attitude as being very conservative, climbing is a relationship with you and the medium. How you conduct yourself within that relationship is part and parcel to the quality of the relationship.
Pure sport is more like pure hedonism. Like sport sex. You don't have ethics, anything goes. You don't care about your partner (in this case the medium) you don't care about a relationship. Sport routes are most often created from top down and bolted on rappel. Hangs are part of the basic program. Ethics are not.