I've seen first-hand what can happen when climbing partners can't communicate because rope-drag makes pull-signals impossible and wind/distance make verbal communication inaudible. Things can get dangerous really fast. How many times have you heard guys yelling back and forth "WHAT?" "WHAT?" "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!". I personally have been there many times myself and seen it with other climbers too many times as well. I once saw a guy who was nearly dropped to his death on a long mulit-pitch route due solely to the fact that his belayer misunderstood him because it was very windy. Using radios on routes where you know regular communication is going to be strained or impossible is an EXCELLENT option. If you're disagreeing with that, then you've personally never needed it or have never tried it.

Using radios on routes where you know regular communication is going to be strained or impossible is an EXCELLENT option. If you're disagreeing with that, then you've personally never needed it or have never tried it.

Comm Aids.... yeah, great. Nice if you're roped soloing a route near a buddies project. OR if you have a few groups who have traveled into an area together and are climbing different routes (check-ins and stuff)

What would benefit more climbers would be to go back to the mentoring system of teaching and away from the “I learned how to belay in the gym so I'm all set for the great outdoors” approach..... What would be the most beneficial thing for climbing in this day and age is for climbers to learn how to improvise again! This seems to be a lost skill amongst most climbers I see these days, and something that was taught during mentoring where you learned the skills of reading your partner and knowing when to think outside of a strict “this is the set procedure” mindset where every step is rigid and set in stone.

A study to figure out the best way to communicate? Thats what we've been reduced to?


Why not just WIFI all of amerika and take our puters up the route.

Cordalette mentality. Its all largo's fault.

DMT

If this was in fact the case then you're right, there's no hope for us! But the point of the questionnaire is to look at the role of communication in mountain sports, how it is hindered and how this affects certain areas. I will not go into details of the questionnaire's results so far as I don't want to bias future answers. However, I will say that perhaps there is a need for a more rigorous standardisation of climbing calls. Perhaps walkie talkies are over complicated in aspects that are not useful for their most common use and too basic for the aspects of communication that matter.

As regards the ethics of climbing and electronic aids, my personal opinion is that you make the sport as dangerous/challenging to yourself as you like and that you should not take it beyond the realms of enjoyment for the sake of traditionalism. As much as we can control our own skill and assessment of our own ability, we cannot control the weather, which is often a major factor in emergency situations. If a loved one's life was put at risk in an extreme sport because of an unexpected change in weather, I know that I would want them to have every reasonable means of overcoming the situation and coming out of it alive.

Anyhoo, it's a good thing for outdoor sports to see such a passionate response to the topic!

I was wondering who was to blame for the downfall of modern climbing. I'll be sure to mention this to John next time I see him at the gym. "Dingus says that..."

Jay

As regards the ethics of climbing and electronic aids, my personal opinion is that you make the sport as dangerous/challenging to yourself as you like and that you should not take it beyond the realms of enjoyment for the sake of traditionalism.

Ive got your comm aid right here pal.

I also find it very interesting that you can replace the work "radio" with "power bar" in you last post and the point is equally as obvious, but it makes more sense.

Could someone explain to me why the idea of comm aids is eliciting such a negative reaction from the community?

Could someone explain to me why the idea of comm aids is eliciting such a negative reaction from the community?

It is basically a symptom and result of the addition of a couple of million risk-averse 'climbers' interested not so much in climbing per se, but in a risk-free entertainment option.

It isn't the comms, it's the mindset the need for them arises from that is eliciting such a negative reaction. It is basically a symptom and result of the addition of a couple of million risk-averse 'climbers' interested not so much in climbing per se, but in a risk-free entertainment option.

After twenty years of full-steam-ahead, gym-powered demographics and economics, 'climbing' for about 85% of 'climbers' is something quite different from what climbing was in terms of self-reliance, risk-aversion, acceptance of responsibility, skills, and craft. "Comms aids" essentially represent just more of the same drift of compensating for, and enabling, folks who, to be blunt, simply aren't up to the particular task at hand. Flooding the rocks with "comm aids" to catch a few [Darwinian] exceptions is the very definition of a form of enablement.

Wow. That's a stupid argument.

Seriously, if you're going to promote that point of view then you cannot reasonably deny that most climbers are enabled to climb through use of ropes, harnesses, bolts, and other forms of protection because they're just not up to the task of free soloing.

The truth is that a majority of the outdoor climbing community uses a wide variety of gear and techniques to protect themselves on a climb and that a communications device is really just another piece of gear that helps improve the safety of a climb.

You write about risk aversion in a manner that insinuates the dangers of climbing aren't terribly significant when in fact rock climbing is a dangerous hobby that has not been made safe, but safer over time through innovation and technological development.

Improving the protection of a climber has been a long standing trend in rock climbing and it would be ignorant to assume that the development of any sort of communication device was not inevitable.

In other words, this was bound to happen and it's not a bad thing because it is no more a substitute for any of the virtues or facets of climbing you listed in your post than a rope or a harness is.

Could someone explain to me why the idea of comm aids is eliciting such a negative reaction from the community?

I was wondering who was to blame for the downfall of modern climbing. I'll be sure to mention this to John next time I see him at the gym. "Dingus says that..."

Jay