The question isn't whether the #9s are inbetween the #8 and #10 (one could only hope they're that competent...), but rather whether DMMs are in-spec with the HB's geometry. And given that is DMM's stated objective, and my sole intent in this thread, you can keep going on an entirely tangential rant, but it has little to do with solving the problem.

DMM starting to epoxy was done in a subsequent production run. In this instance, the decision to not epoxy was a deliberate [re]design decision that varied from the HBs.

This was in fact common practice by HB, but something we weren't aware of at time of going into production.

I didn't say that the #9 was in between, I said it was dead center in the range.

You have not proven your HB is in-spec to anything but itself. No, having three nuts fit a placement doesn't prove it. DMM, who you have admitted has better access to the spec's, has indicated that the products *and* the product literature has varied.

With that in mind, how do you know what "spec" you are aiming for? You have had the same answer again and again.

Incorrect, is wasn't a deliberate design decision.

In fact:

If you want to be a pedant, at least get your shit correct.

Despite what Chris has said, and given the fact I have never seen a non-epoxied HB Offset, I find it quite hard to believe that everyone on their engineering or manufacturing teams failed to notice the HBs are fact epoxied. That would be a fairly remarkable oversight on the part of some clearly otherwise talented folks.

Which, for the forth time, is entirely irrelevant - the only thing that is revelant is whether the DMMs are in-spec to the Hbs.

Murf - again, a 3:1 fit on two different placement, in combination with the photo I posted previously conclusively indicates that the DMM #9 I posted is out-of-spec from the HB #9 spec. Or are you simply blind?

Whatever the spec on the original HBs was. And the DMM #9 I have, by any logical interpretation of placement data and photo comparison, is significantly out-of-spec from the original.

Dude, you can keep missing the point all you want and it won't change the facts in hand a wit.

Have you for some reason made it your mission in life this week to fuck w/ healyje's personal concerns or is there some other reason you're being an ass about this?

r u stalking me?

Why?

Well, you don't have a thing interesting to say other than to call me an ass...

So, either you're stalking me, or just stupid.

Of course, those could be the only two possibilities. So, extrpolating from that logic you must be stupid or stalking healyje since you haven't said anything interesting.

Funny that you apparently think it's interesting that I called you an ass.

Go away and let the grownups argue.

Oh yeah, I forgot that grownups do argue by refusing to listen to each other and continuously spouting the same BS.

Anyway, your "argument" seems to be in a hiatus for the moment so just consider me to be giving you a chance to further refine your internet skills.

Go away and let the grownups argue.

Sorry.... between the 8 and 10....

Well I could ask you why you feel that "1 Nut Healy" has such an overwhelming argument and why I haven't asked any interesting questions. I thought about it, but it seemed like you just wanted to play kiddie games (after all you started the ad hominem attacks).

Let me ask you a direct question, since you want to play and have obviously read every post in depth:

Do you feel as if the possibility exists that the HB nut healyje has is itself "out of spec" or perhaps an earlier spec than the DMM's were based on?

I think they (represented by Chris) might be the only ones not being pejorative in this thread...

I suspect you don't have them right now Lemon boy. What happens is that they slide up while on your rack as you climb. When you go to use them, you have to pull the nut back down, which can be damn difficult if you're barely hanging on. Then your second gets there and pushes on the wire and it just slides up the nut, making use of a nut tool unnecessarily mandatory for every placement. Trust me on this, you don't want them to stay that way. Epoxy is mandatory as the wire it too loose. It's not like the small size dmm and BD nuts, where there is a close interference fit, and it's nice to have it loose so you can loop a bolt that is hangerless.

I just put the nuts in my mouth and I can usually get them to drop quickly and easily.

Possibly out of spec, sure; likely, no. If he's had 3 of them over the years that have fit the same placement that means he would have had to have 3 out of tolerance HB nuts, all out of tolerance in the same manner. That, I think, is highly unlikely.

An earlier spec? Well, that's certainly possible but I'd say still unlikely, though more likely than the out of spec case.

My issue is, why the vehemence in the argument? He's sending off to DMM for comparison. He readily admits his issue is in the fact that the new DMM nut is different than the HB one but DMM asserts they're supposed to be the same. So, unless someone is deliberately lying, this means there is at least an unknown somewhere if not outright confusion or error. It doesn't seem unreasonable to figure out where that is as long as DMM is willing to play. I'm curious to know why it's not the same. I read into your responses that you don't care. Okay, that's fine, buy why get all wrapped around the axle about the fact that someone else does?

DMM starting to epoxy was done in a subsequent production run. In this instance, the decision to not epoxy was a deliberate [re]design decision that varied from the HBs. It resulted in the DMMs essentially being unusable until you epoxied them yourself.