You know... Looking at the pictures, it looks like the Red #9 is the same size as the Grey #10. Could the main problem be that your Red #9 is in truth a Grey #10 that was mis-anodized?

JMB

It only appears that way because I cropped each photo the same and then scaled them all to 900 pixels wide. The effect is to make all of them look more or less ballpark of the same size in the photo, but I can assure you they are all quite different sizes.

Surely some other local gear whores have both HBs and DMMs to compare to [paging Billcoe...]

This is a stupid comparison, then. The pics should have been normalized to the scale of the HB nuts, so that the differences are evident.

If it's simply an execution anomolly then hopefully I can avail myself of a couple of in-spec ones without having to buy whole sets.

Joe, why are you limited to buying them only as whole sets? A pro deal limitation?

Had some time between tasks this pm. Measured my #7, #8, and #9 DMM offsets. The #9 is exactly between the two in no less than 12 dimensions.

The #9 is exactly between which two? The #7 and #8?

The point is only to compare like sizes - i.e. HB #9 against DMM #9 etc. - not to compare different sizes. The pictures quite well illustrate comparisons of like sizes; HB's on the left, DMM's on the right. That the photo scale of each nut size isn't to actual scale, or to relative scale with the other sizes is entirely irrelevant. Can't quite understand how someone could not get that, but oh well...

Bill, yes, that is one of the two possibilities and if that is the case - that they are making the #9s consistently, but out of the HB spec - then I would very much encourage them to redo that mold so to bring it into spec with the HB #9. If it's simply an execution anomolly then hopefully I can avail myself of a couple of in-spec ones without having to buy whole sets.

The other thing is if you love the HB's and you have a full set, why buy a $75 set of DMM's? I mean, you already have the "one true set" of nuts, why compromise?

Indeed the local supplier here will only sell single for 15$ a piece.

Jesus - you just don't get it...

The #9 is directly between the #8 and the #10

Get out Billcoe_ calipers and check already. The time it took you to take all those photos and then adjust them you could have been doing something useful.

The other thing is if you love the HB's and you have a full set, why buy a $75 set of DMM's? I mean, you already have the "one true set" of nuts, why compromise?

At this point I'm going to just assume you are beyond clueless - which part of the DMM# 9 is out-of-spec with the HB #9 don't you get? The pictures clearly show all of the DMM's at, or close to, the HB spec - except the DMM #9 which is entirely out of spec with the HB #9. The HB spec is the ONLY thing I'm concerned with in any aspect of this discussion.

Why the DMM #9 is so obviously out-of-spec with the HB #9 is useful in determining whether it is a one-off execution error or a permanent as-built spec error; but in the end I simply am attempting make sure that what ends up on shelves is in-spec with original HBs.
nal HB Offsets.

The Number 9 Offset is forged on the original HB die. I repeat until I get the offending nut here in Llanberis North Wales where we forge them I'd prefer not to speculate further, as that is what most of this is, speculation. I will gladly post the results up when ready.
Just as an aside Rockclimbing.com might be doing a feature on DMM in the future which would be good as you will be able to have verification of what I have tried to explain from a neutral source. Unless any of you guys find yourself over here in which case I'll gladly show you around personally.
Chris

Even if they didn't, that is their pejorative.

also, i am not sure whether i would like the wires epoxied at the head or not. it seems like stoppers that have the wires fixed at the head (ie RP's etc) are more vulnerable to the cables getting super kinked when a lazy second just jerks on it. if the cable is free, it can slide a bit to make up for it, and then you just have to re-slide it to straighten it back out.

Come on, that's heresy sir! Once can never have too much gear!

What happens is that they slide up while on your rack as you climb. When you go to use them, you have to pull the nut back down, which can be damn difficult if you're barely hanging on.

I just put the nuts in my mouth and I can usually get them to drop quickly and easily.

All your pictures prove is that your HB #9 doesn't match your DMM #9. You see, I don't think a single person on this thread has disputed the possibility that the #9 HB and the #9 DMM in your possession don't match.

The scaling also removes any comparison between the numbers.

Compare your HB #9 versus the HB #8 and #10. Do the same with the DMM's. Now actually measure them all. Then post. At that point you might have something to add to the thread.

It's hilarious to think that a manufacturer need to slavishly follow your dictates. They say they used the molds. Even if they didn't, that is their pejorative.

I'll end with this... I actually measured mine and the #9 is dead in the center size wise between the #8 and #10. Quality product, works great, I'm in.

Least you can do is send them an email about it. You're not the first one to complain about the cable not staying put and DMM did make an alteration to their drilling to make the fit tighter but I don't know if that was done pre-production or mid-production.

As a comparison, i think that metolius making their master cams in the same sizes as their tcu's was a big mistake. if they would have offset the sizing by 1/2, then the master cams would make great complimentary pieces to both tcu's and aliens alike. this would be terrific for desert cracks as there is a spooky gap between blue and yellow and yellow and orange tcu's (as well as between green alien and yellow alien).