Good Day,

I was wondering if the AMGA wall instructor and the AMGA single pitch instructor where the only recognized certification for instructing out there.

Is there a good alternative? Is working at the gym and passing the local gyms tests enough? or if i plan to continue working as an instructor, would it be beneficial to become AMGA certified?

Who instructs or tests you after taking the AMGA courses? Or can i download the test somewhere and take it, or can somebody "sign me off"???

just some questions i had.

Thanks already,
Kest

IMO, becoming a certified on something without gaining enough experience prior to be proficient on the subject is basically worthless and it is just a piece of paper to hang on wall.

Well said.

SPI requieres things like being able to climb 5.10a's comfortable and some other grades and so on.

and well i have been teaching for a year now, and really enjoy it. and i am not the piece of paper kind of guy. i dont really care. i dont like plaques (except the one i got for eagle scout). for me its more or less that i will be moving in one or two years and would like to find a job as an instructor again.

and well... pieces of paper have never helped anyone. and its more that they prove you have experience. so i dont really believe in this piece of paper crap either. so stop flaming me for it (jk i asked an opinion and this is what i got. )

so yeah.

Good Day,

... Or can i download the test somewhere and take it, or can somebody "sign me off"???...

If you have all the skills & experience in the world, you can't just take the test. You MUST take the classes (& pay top-dollar for them) before they will allow you to test.

IMHO the AMGA seems to be primarily a self-serving organization. Their main purpose seems to be making & keeping themselves legitimate & necessary.

A necessary evil in this biz unfortunately. Maybe one day they will spend their efforts helping guides rather than milking them for cash and trying to advance their own goals, like making themselves necessary.

I don't have a problem with the organization. They're a good organization with good standards, and AMGA guides have their shit together.

That said, you don't need a certification to be very capable in the things they teach.

This is bad advice. Ignore it!

Your point is moot. It makes no difference what you think about the AMGA good, bad, or indifferent. You clearly have no understanding of what is happening in the American guide scene.

Stop handing out advice on things you don't know anything about.

Check out the American Heart Association. They are the only accepted CPR course for medical professionals in the country (that I'm aware of).

This is bad advice. Ignore it!

Your point is moot. It makes no difference what you think about the AMGA good, bad, or indifferent. You clearly have no understanding of what is happening in the American guide scene.

Stop handing out advice on things you don't know anything about.

To the OP:

As I have stated before, if you wish to make guiding your job, you really will benefit from getting the Top Rope Site Manager course as A MINIMUM. You will also need a Wilderness First Aid cert. at minimum, not to mention a valid CPR cert. Your best bet is to get a WFR (Wildernes First Responder) cert. It's around 80 hours, and about $800 to $1000 for the course depending on who you take it from. Make sure the course is sanctioned by the WMA (Wilderness Medical Associates). I would also not bother with the Red Cross CPR course. It's worthless. Check out the American Heart Association. They are the only accepted CPR course for medical professionals in the country (that I'm aware of).

There are certainly plenty of "guide schools" out there, but if you're smart, you will only want to work with the reputable ones. Especially if you want to be able to work year round for multiple schools when the weather changes from one locale to the next.

Simply put, if it comes down to you or another guide getting hired by a reputable operation, the other has his certs and shit together and you don't, guess who's getting hired and who isn't.

If you have any other questions let me know, I have a fair amount of background with this.

It all boils down to liability. No certs, huge liability, proper certs. limited liability. If you owned a guide school and your neck was on the legal chopping block, combined with a ton of money and time invested, which would you choose?

I stand corrected. Who else? I'm curious.

Thanks, that's good to know. I need to find out if they do there course in my area. I'm a tad out on CPR cert and with the new protocols I guess it's time to get it done. Cheaper is always fine with me.

Rajmit.... oh never mind, talking to you makes as much sense as a soup sandwich.

Thanks again Reno.

Thanks, that's good to know. I need to find out if they do there course in my area. I'm a tad out on CPR cert and with the new protocols I guess it's time to get it done. Cheaper is always fine with me.

Rajmit.... oh never mind, talking to you makes as much sense as a soup sandwich.

Thanks again Reno.

Yeah, now's a good time, because the AHA just revamped all its recommendations for obstructed airway procedures (i.e. choking victim goes unconscious) and there are a couple other differences (it's 30/2 @ 5x/minute now). I had to renew my AHA a couple months ago.

You might want to check and make sure AHSI has adopted the new standards.

Every 2 minutes, and for the future there's talk of going all compressions and no breaths.

Word on the street is that Pisgah National Forest (home to Looking Glass Rock, Cedar Rock and many other smaller crags) will begin requiring all guides and group instructors, be they assistants or leaders, to carry AMGA Single Pitch certification at a minimum -- beginning in 2009. To my knowledge this is the most stringent requirement to date in the US, and it will affect hundreds of people, since the above areas are virtually overrun with camp groups all summer long.

Every 2 minutes, and for the future there's talk of going all compressions and no breaths.

Are you sure about that???

Updated 911 procedures for completely untrained people is compressions and no rescue breaths, b/c studies have shown that untrained bystanders responding to a victim cannot be properly explained over the phone by 911 operator on how to perform breaths. Plus, studies have also shown that a bystander is much more likely to administer CPR if breaths are not involved, b/c they are freaked out about putting their mouth on a stranger's mouth. "Its better than nothing" is the main driver behind this philosophy.

For trained personnel (including just the one-day CPR training), the procedure still includes rescue breaths. I haven't heard any talk about that changing. But I would be interested in hearing if you know differently.

The reason for this, is that a person with the one-day CPR training is fairly likely to administer breaths properly. Yes, there is oxygen in your bloodstream when you have a heart attack (the reason why compressions w. no breaths works) , but only about 10 minutes worth. After that, you would just be pumping de-oxygenated blood around the victims body (which is useless). Its every bit likely (even in the city) that emergency services will not respond in 10 minutes, so thats why they are still teaching rescue breaths.

I understand that breaking the rhythm of the compressions is another reason why rescue breaths turn out to be less effective than previously thought. I also know there is a high-profile medical doctor in Arizona that is a proponent of the "no-compression" philosophy, and has been changing the standard in Arizona.

But I still don't see a point in pumping blood around the victims body, when there is no oxygen in the blood anymore.

My AHA instructor stated there is lots of misinformation going around about "no compressions", thanks to the media. He said that one "AHA expert" that has been repeatedly quoted as being a proponent of "no compression" does not even work for the AHA anymore, and hasn't for years.

In a major change, the American Heart Association said Monday that hands-only CPR — rapid, deep presses on the victim’s chest until help arrives — works just as well as standard CPR for sudden cardiac arrest in adults.

This action should be taken only for adults who unexpectedly collapse, stop breathing and are unresponsive. The odds are that the person is having cardiac arrest — the heart suddenly stops — which can occur after a heart attack or be caused by other heart problems. In such a case, the victim still has ample air in the lungs and blood and compressions keep blood flowing to the brain, heart and other organs.

A child who collapses is more likely to primarily have breathing problems — and in that case, mouth-to-mouth breathing should be used. That also applies to adults who suffer lack of oxygen from a near-drowning, drug overdose, or carbon monoxide poisoning. In these cases, people need mouth-to-mouth to get air into their lungs and bloodstream.

My hospital accepted the CPR cert from my WMA WFR course. which is fantastic, cause it's the only CPR cert I know of that is good for 3 years.

hmmm, that could be interesting. So does this mean everyone belaying would have to have an SPI? or just the leaders? I'd bet that the camps have probably 1 certified person now to set the anchors and manage the site, however if everybody who is holding a rope has to have an AMGA cert, the crowds probably won't be very bad in 2009.