|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Nov 29, 2008, 7:04 AM
Post #51 of 228
(9338 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Don't listen to him Rockie, he's never even had professional instruction in these matters. I can see that. I'd climb with you before I'd climb with him, not that I'd forget about that one!  Edited to add: My mistake, I would never climb with him, but I would climb with you 
WooHoo, in your face ZEKE!!!
|
|
|
|
|
rockie
Nov 29, 2008, 7:06 AM
Post #52 of 228
(9333 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 1130
|
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Nov 29, 2008, 7:19 AM
Post #53 of 228
(9321 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Where in there does it state I never use a tree as an anchor point? Kindly don't put words in my mouth just because you assume things. Let me spell it out one more time for you as you didn't understand the first time obviously: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do. What about this guy, would you belay off that? [image]http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB002449.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BA5648DA0-31BA-4998-AF10-E3A0FBA020B5%7D[/image] Well it doesn't look like it is dying, or rotten. But I'd have to see it for real to know for sure It looks solid from where I am sitting, so that's a good sign. It isn't too thin either, and it doesn't look loose at the roots, but again, I'd have to see it for real to be sure. Still, I'd like to use 1-2 other anchor points besides this one, but if that was all I had.. and as long as it is assessed perfectly bomber, by me of course, then just maybe I would. There is a tree at Squamish someone anchored us to, I got up to it and it was loose, seriously that one is going to come out at some point, and if people are not aware of it or aware to use other anchor points and just want to rely on that one, zeke! then they are going to likely die.
I think we may have very different ideas of what constitutes a tree. I wouldn't be happy to be belayed off an 8 inch diameter baby tree but as long as its not right on the edge, most grown trees will do just fine.
Hell sometimes if your topping out a slab with a low angle summit, you can just plop down on your ass and throw the rope around your waist. Point is, all belays are different and sometimes a seat belay is all you need.
|
|
|
|
|
rockie
Nov 29, 2008, 7:26 AM
Post #54 of 228
(9316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 1130
|
notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Where in there does it state I never use a tree as an anchor point? Kindly don't put words in my mouth just because you assume things. Let me spell it out one more time for you as you didn't understand the first time obviously: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do. What about this guy, would you belay off that?  Well it doesn't look like it is dying, or rotten. But I'd have to see it for real to know for sure It looks solid from where I am sitting, so that's a good sign. It isn't too thin either, and it doesn't look loose at the roots, but again, I'd have to see it for real to be sure. Still, I'd like to use 1-2 other anchor points besides this one, but if that was all I had.. and as long as it is assessed perfectly bomber, by me of course, then just maybe I would. There is a tree at Squamish someone anchored us to, I got up to it and it was loose, seriously that one is going to come out at some point, and if people are not aware of it or aware to use other anchor points and just want to rely on that one, zeke! then they are going to likely die. I think we may have very different ideas of what constitutes a tree. I wouldn't be happy to be belayed off an 8 inch diameter baby tree but as long as its not right on the edge, most grown trees will do just fine. Hell sometimes if your topping out a slab with a low angle summit, you can just plop down on your ass and throw the rope around your waist. Point is, all belays are different and sometimes a seat belay is all you need.
I prefer more than just one anchor point.
If a huge solid, non rotting, healthy tree was the only thing I had, and it wasn't on the edge for sure! then it would likely be okay. Either way, it would have to be bomber and I'd want to ensure that the person I am climbing with is not put at risk by my decision either.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Nov 29, 2008, 8:11 AM
Post #55 of 228
(9300 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Where in there does it state I never use a tree as an anchor point? Kindly don't put words in my mouth just because you assume things. Let me spell it out one more time for you as you didn't understand the first time obviously: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do. What about this guy, would you belay off that? [image]http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB002449.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BA5648DA0-31BA-4998-AF10-E3A0FBA020B5%7D[/image] Well it doesn't look like it is dying, or rotten. But I'd have to see it for real to know for sure It looks solid from where I am sitting, so that's a good sign. It isn't too thin either, and it doesn't look loose at the roots, but again, I'd have to see it for real to be sure. Still, I'd like to use 1-2 other anchor points besides this one, but if that was all I had.. and as long as it is assessed perfectly bomber, by me of course, then just maybe I would. There is a tree at Squamish someone anchored us to, I got up to it and it was loose, seriously that one is going to come out at some point, and if people are not aware of it or aware to use other anchor points and just want to rely on that one, zeke! then they are going to likely die. I think we may have very different ideas of what constitutes a tree. I wouldn't be happy to be belayed off an 8 inch diameter baby tree but as long as its not right on the edge, most grown trees will do just fine. Hell sometimes if your topping out a slab with a low angle summit, you can just plop down on your ass and throw the rope around your waist. Point is, all belays are different and sometimes a seat belay is all you need. I prefer more than just one anchor point. If a huge solid, non rotting, healthy tree was the only thing I had, and it wasn't on the edge for sure! then it would likely be okay. Either way, it would have to be bomber and I'd want to ensure that the person I am climbing with is not put at risk by my decision either.
Thats fair enough. No reason to compromise on your safety if you don't have to.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Nov 29, 2008, 1:17 PM
Post #56 of 228
(9277 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
rockie, after 22 years of this stuff, I can honestly say that a BFT is hands down my favorite anchor on earth. Yeah, it's only one anchor point, but if you have something thick as three of you, live and healthy, why on Earth wouldn't you make that your anchor?
That, and Zeke's playing pretty nice with you. Maybe back off the insults just a bit. Please?
|
|
|
|
|
zeke_sf
Nov 29, 2008, 5:01 PM
Post #57 of 228
(9215 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
|
notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Don't listen to him Rockie, he's never even had professional instruction in these matters. I can see that. I'd climb with you before I'd climb with him, not that I'd forget about that one! Edited to add: My mistake, I would never climb with him, but I would climb with you WooHoo, in your face ZEKE!!!
Damnz! I think I need to take a course in internet posting or something....
|
|
|
|
|
zeke_sf
Nov 29, 2008, 5:05 PM
Post #58 of 228
(9207 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
|
rockie wrote: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do.
Yeah, but it's convenient!
|
|
|
|
|
zeke_sf
Nov 29, 2008, 5:08 PM
Post #59 of 228
(9202 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730
|
rockie wrote: Well fook! I am risking my life if I climb with him from all he's said so far. No one is worth that much!
You know you find the danger alluring. And, yes, I am totally worth it.
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Nov 29, 2008, 5:19 PM
Post #60 of 228
(9195 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
j_ung wrote: rockie, after 22 years of this stuff, I can honestly say that a BFT is hands down my favorite anchor on earth. Yeah, it's only one anchor point, but if you have something thick as three of you, live and healthy, why on Earth wouldn't you make that your anchor?
The BFT is the anchor of choice in the North East, too. Although, I've been to Squamish twice so far and can say that I don't trust their trees at all! Seems like the soil is softer, the trees have more give, and branches are slimy, soft and break off way to easily. In NH, MA, NY and ME we have us some hardy trees! I would be less likely to trust a squishy Squamish tree, though!
I learned this technique from Intl. Mountain Climbing School class:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ff_a_Tree_62932.html
If the tree is bomber, the anchor is bomber. It also only makes sense to do if you're about to walk off the climb because the rope is part of your anchor.
As for the dumbest thing that I've ever done... On my first multipitch ever (Whitney Gilman Ledge), my leader yelled 'off belay'. I took him off belay and then proceeded to take myself off the anchor, assuming that I was on belay. It was a big ledge, but still pretty stoooopid!!! 
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Nov 29, 2008, 5:26 PM
Post #61 of 228
(9186 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Where in there does it state I never use a tree as an anchor point? Kindly don't put words in my mouth just because you assume things. Let me spell it out one more time for you as you didn't understand the first time obviously: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do. What about this guy, would you belay off that? [image]http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB002449.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BA5648DA0-31BA-4998-AF10-E3A0FBA020B5%7D[/image] Well it doesn't look like it is dying, or rotten. But I'd have to see it for real to know for sure It looks solid from where I am sitting, so that's a good sign. It isn't too thin either, and it doesn't look loose at the roots, but again, I'd have to see it for real to be sure. Still, I'd like to use 1-2 other anchor points besides this one, but if that was all I had.. and as long as it is assessed perfectly bomber, by me of course, then just maybe I would. There is a tree at Squamish someone anchored us to, I got up to it and it was loose, seriously that one is going to come out at some point, and if people are not aware of it or aware to use other anchor points and just want to rely on that one, zeke! then they are going to likely die. I think we may have very different ideas of what constitutes a tree. I wouldn't be happy to be belayed off an 8 inch diameter baby tree but as long as its not right on the edge, most grown trees will do just fine. Hell sometimes if your topping out a slab with a low angle summit, you can just plop down on your ass and throw the rope around your waist. Point is, all belays are different and sometimes a seat belay is all you need. I prefer more than just one anchor point. If a huge solid, non rotting, healthy tree was the only thing I had, and it wasn't on the edge for sure! then it would likely be okay. Either way, it would have to be bomber and I'd want to ensure that the person I am climbing with is not put at risk by my decision either. Thats fair enough. No reason to compromise on your safety if you don't have to.
This is not the stupidest thing I've done. 
In the situation, it wasn't stupid at all.
|
|
|
|
|
mikeboomer12
Nov 29, 2008, 5:38 PM
Post #62 of 228
(9179 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 16, 2007
Posts: 52
|
I hoped on a climb in new area that I had never seen anyone climb before right at the peak of my lead ability. I checked in the guidebook and forgot to check how many bolts there were. Turned out to be three bolts and an anchor, 25m, runout. I got up to the third bolt and panicked. I was pumped freak and on a hold I wasn't comfortable clipping off of. I got a draw in the third bolt, but as I went to clip it, I pulled some rope and couldn't get it. I started to fall about to deck from 15m to a brutal landing. As my second hand let go and I started falling I made a desperate throw for the draw and caught it. I managed to clip and lowered w/o injury.
|
|
|
|
|
Valarc
Nov 29, 2008, 6:41 PM
Post #63 of 228
(9164 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 1473
|
rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: Don't listen to him Rockie, he's never even had professional instruction in these matters. I can see that. I'd climb with you before I'd climb with him, not that I'd forget about that one!
Rockie, maybe if you took a breath between your recent machine-gun post-as-many-times-as-possible ramblings, you would realize that NA is mocking you. Not everyone needs to take a little course from some certified know-it-all to be a safe climber. I've met professionals who were idiots, and I've met beginners who were a lot more sensible in their approach to climbing. Taking a course does not an expert make.
Also, your avatar image is broken and it's really fucking annoying. Fix that shit.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Nov 29, 2008, 7:42 PM
Post #64 of 228
(9357 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: Well fook! I am risking my life if I climb with him from all he's said so far. No one is worth that much! You know you find the danger alluring. And, yes, I am totally worth it.
Your like the James Bond of internet posting.
The ladies can't resist your charms but once you've had your way, they will be cast aside. In your case anchored to a tree and pushed off a cliff.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Nov 29, 2008, 8:23 PM
Post #65 of 228
(9339 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
angry wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Where in there does it state I never use a tree as an anchor point? Kindly don't put words in my mouth just because you assume things. Let me spell it out one more time for you as you didn't understand the first time obviously: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do. What about this guy, would you belay off that? [image]http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB002449.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BA5648DA0-31BA-4998-AF10-E3A0FBA020B5%7D[/image] Well it doesn't look like it is dying, or rotten. But I'd have to see it for real to know for sure It looks solid from where I am sitting, so that's a good sign. It isn't too thin either, and it doesn't look loose at the roots, but again, I'd have to see it for real to be sure. Still, I'd like to use 1-2 other anchor points besides this one, but if that was all I had.. and as long as it is assessed perfectly bomber, by me of course, then just maybe I would. There is a tree at Squamish someone anchored us to, I got up to it and it was loose, seriously that one is going to come out at some point, and if people are not aware of it or aware to use other anchor points and just want to rely on that one, zeke! then they are going to likely die. I think we may have very different ideas of what constitutes a tree. I wouldn't be happy to be belayed off an 8 inch diameter baby tree but as long as its not right on the edge, most grown trees will do just fine. Hell sometimes if your topping out a slab with a low angle summit, you can just plop down on your ass and throw the rope around your waist. Point is, all belays are different and sometimes a seat belay is all you need. I prefer more than just one anchor point. If a huge solid, non rotting, healthy tree was the only thing I had, and it wasn't on the edge for sure! then it would likely be okay. Either way, it would have to be bomber and I'd want to ensure that the person I am climbing with is not put at risk by my decision either. Thats fair enough. No reason to compromise on your safety if you don't have to. This is not the stupidest thing I've done. In the situation, it wasn't stupid at all.
If I arrived at the end of a pitch to find that anchor, I'd be laughing too hard to be concerned.
|
|
|
|
|
spikeddem
Nov 29, 2008, 8:44 PM
Post #66 of 228
(9329 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 6319
|
notapplicable wrote: angry wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Where in there does it state I never use a tree as an anchor point? Kindly don't put words in my mouth just because you assume things. Let me spell it out one more time for you as you didn't understand the first time obviously: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do. What about this guy, would you belay off that? [image]http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB002449.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BA5648DA0-31BA-4998-AF10-E3A0FBA020B5%7D[/image] Well it doesn't look like it is dying, or rotten. But I'd have to see it for real to know for sure It looks solid from where I am sitting, so that's a good sign. It isn't too thin either, and it doesn't look loose at the roots, but again, I'd have to see it for real to be sure. Still, I'd like to use 1-2 other anchor points besides this one, but if that was all I had.. and as long as it is assessed perfectly bomber, by me of course, then just maybe I would. There is a tree at Squamish someone anchored us to, I got up to it and it was loose, seriously that one is going to come out at some point, and if people are not aware of it or aware to use other anchor points and just want to rely on that one, zeke! then they are going to likely die. I think we may have very different ideas of what constitutes a tree. I wouldn't be happy to be belayed off an 8 inch diameter baby tree but as long as its not right on the edge, most grown trees will do just fine. Hell sometimes if your topping out a slab with a low angle summit, you can just plop down on your ass and throw the rope around your waist. Point is, all belays are different and sometimes a seat belay is all you need. I prefer more than just one anchor point. If a huge solid, non rotting, healthy tree was the only thing I had, and it wasn't on the edge for sure! then it would likely be okay. Either way, it would have to be bomber and I'd want to ensure that the person I am climbing with is not put at risk by my decision either. Thats fair enough. No reason to compromise on your safety if you don't have to. This is not the stupidest thing I've done. [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/6/7756-largest_78512.jpg[/image] In the situation, it wasn't stupid at all. I arrived at the end of a pitch to find that anchor, I'd be laughing too hard to be concerned.
Heehee.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Nov 29, 2008, 8:54 PM
Post #67 of 228
(9323 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
spikeddem wrote: notapplicable wrote: angry wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Where in there does it state I never use a tree as an anchor point? Kindly don't put words in my mouth just because you assume things. Let me spell it out one more time for you as you didn't understand the first time obviously: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do. What about this guy, would you belay off that? [image]http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB002449.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BA5648DA0-31BA-4998-AF10-E3A0FBA020B5%7D[/image] Well it doesn't look like it is dying, or rotten. But I'd have to see it for real to know for sure It looks solid from where I am sitting, so that's a good sign. It isn't too thin either, and it doesn't look loose at the roots, but again, I'd have to see it for real to be sure. Still, I'd like to use 1-2 other anchor points besides this one, but if that was all I had.. and as long as it is assessed perfectly bomber, by me of course, then just maybe I would. There is a tree at Squamish someone anchored us to, I got up to it and it was loose, seriously that one is going to come out at some point, and if people are not aware of it or aware to use other anchor points and just want to rely on that one, zeke! then they are going to likely die. I think we may have very different ideas of what constitutes a tree. I wouldn't be happy to be belayed off an 8 inch diameter baby tree but as long as its not right on the edge, most grown trees will do just fine. Hell sometimes if your topping out a slab with a low angle summit, you can just plop down on your ass and throw the rope around your waist. Point is, all belays are different and sometimes a seat belay is all you need. I prefer more than just one anchor point. If a huge solid, non rotting, healthy tree was the only thing I had, and it wasn't on the edge for sure! then it would likely be okay. Either way, it would have to be bomber and I'd want to ensure that the person I am climbing with is not put at risk by my decision either. Thats fair enough. No reason to compromise on your safety if you don't have to. This is not the stupidest thing I've done. [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/6/7756-largest_78512.jpg[/image] In the situation, it wasn't stupid at all. I arrived at the end of a pitch to find that anchor, I'd be laughing too hard to be concerned. Heehee.
Touche
|
|
|
|
|
Goo
Nov 29, 2008, 8:56 PM
Post #68 of 228
(9319 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2008
Posts: 68
|
notapplicable wrote: spikeddem wrote: notapplicable wrote: angry wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Where in there does it state I never use a tree as an anchor point? Kindly don't put words in my mouth just because you assume things. Let me spell it out one more time for you as you didn't understand the first time obviously: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do. What about this guy, would you belay off that? [image]http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB002449.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BA5648DA0-31BA-4998-AF10-E3A0FBA020B5%7D[/image] Well it doesn't look like it is dying, or rotten. But I'd have to see it for real to know for sure It looks solid from where I am sitting, so that's a good sign. It isn't too thin either, and it doesn't look loose at the roots, but again, I'd have to see it for real to be sure. Still, I'd like to use 1-2 other anchor points besides this one, but if that was all I had.. and as long as it is assessed perfectly bomber, by me of course, then just maybe I would. There is a tree at Squamish someone anchored us to, I got up to it and it was loose, seriously that one is going to come out at some point, and if people are not aware of it or aware to use other anchor points and just want to rely on that one, zeke! then they are going to likely die. I think we may have very different ideas of what constitutes a tree. I wouldn't be happy to be belayed off an 8 inch diameter baby tree but as long as its not right on the edge, most grown trees will do just fine. Hell sometimes if your topping out a slab with a low angle summit, you can just plop down on your ass and throw the rope around your waist. Point is, all belays are different and sometimes a seat belay is all you need. I prefer more than just one anchor point. If a huge solid, non rotting, healthy tree was the only thing I had, and it wasn't on the edge for sure! then it would likely be okay. Either way, it would have to be bomber and I'd want to ensure that the person I am climbing with is not put at risk by my decision either. Thats fair enough. No reason to compromise on your safety if you don't have to. This is not the stupidest thing I've done. [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/6/7756-largest_78512.jpg[/image] In the situation, it wasn't stupid at all. I arrived at the end of a pitch to find that anchor, I'd be laughing too hard to be concerned. Heehee. Touche
Now I see how you guys get so freaking many posts.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
Nov 29, 2008, 9:06 PM
Post #69 of 228
(9318 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
Goo wrote: notapplicable wrote: spikeddem wrote: notapplicable wrote: angry wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: zeke_sf wrote: rockie wrote: climbed outdoors on trad with someone who hadn't done a lead course, who anchored to a tree, and nothing else. 1 x anchor. Not very clever. Trees are some of the best anchors out there if they are solid. They're considered to be as solid as, well, a friggin' tree! Just one anchor point is a very stupid mistake, especially when it's a tree (edited to add that last point). Well, that means you can't ever use a tree as an anchor - or even part of your anchor. If you don't trust them at all, then you certainly shouldn't anchor to a piece that, if it failed, would pull you and your other piece(s) right off the mountain. Where in there does it state I never use a tree as an anchor point? Kindly don't put words in my mouth just because you assume things. Let me spell it out one more time for you as you didn't understand the first time obviously: One anchor point, namely a tree, is a pretty stupid thing to do. What about this guy, would you belay off that? [image]http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB002449.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BA5648DA0-31BA-4998-AF10-E3A0FBA020B5%7D[/image] Well it doesn't look like it is dying, or rotten. But I'd have to see it for real to know for sure It looks solid from where I am sitting, so that's a good sign. It isn't too thin either, and it doesn't look loose at the roots, but again, I'd have to see it for real to be sure. Still, I'd like to use 1-2 other anchor points besides this one, but if that was all I had.. and as long as it is assessed perfectly bomber, by me of course, then just maybe I would. There is a tree at Squamish someone anchored us to, I got up to it and it was loose, seriously that one is going to come out at some point, and if people are not aware of it or aware to use other anchor points and just want to rely on that one, zeke! then they are going to likely die. I think we may have very different ideas of what constitutes a tree. I wouldn't be happy to be belayed off an 8 inch diameter baby tree but as long as its not right on the edge, most grown trees will do just fine. Hell sometimes if your topping out a slab with a low angle summit, you can just plop down on your ass and throw the rope around your waist. Point is, all belays are different and sometimes a seat belay is all you need. I prefer more than just one anchor point. If a huge solid, non rotting, healthy tree was the only thing I had, and it wasn't on the edge for sure! then it would likely be okay. Either way, it would have to be bomber and I'd want to ensure that the person I am climbing with is not put at risk by my decision either. Thats fair enough. No reason to compromise on your safety if you don't have to. This is not the stupidest thing I've done. [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/6/7756-largest_78512.jpg[/image] In the situation, it wasn't stupid at all. I arrived at the end of a pitch to find that anchor, I'd be laughing too hard to be concerned. Heehee. Touche Now I see how you guys get so freaking many posts.
My 4,300 is small time and its cold out with rain moving in, what else am I gonna do?
|
|
|
|
|
rockie
Nov 29, 2008, 9:28 PM
Post #70 of 228
(9305 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 1130
|
Valarc wrote: rockie wrote: notapplicable wrote: Don't listen to him Rockie, he's never even had professional instruction in these matters. I can see that. I'd climb with you before I'd climb with him, not that I'd forget about that one! I've met professionals who were idiots, and I've met beginners who were a lot more sensible in their approach to climbing. Taking a course does not an expert make. Also, your avatar image is broken and it's really annoying. Fix that .
Valarc, that depends who you select as your climbing guide really doesn't it. If you want to choose an idiot that is your bad choice, if you want to choose a recognised guide with alot of experience and knowledge, then that's far more sensible.
Each to their own though
As for fixing things, why don't you tell the site owner to do that. No need to use foul language is there, fix that!
|
|
|
|
|
rockie
Nov 29, 2008, 9:30 PM
Post #71 of 228
(9303 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 1130
|
rockie wrote: Parkerkat wrote: hahaha..couple new folks climbing with us once, and had seen them in the gym..seemed like they knew what they were doing..at least for top rope..so I set a top rope route for them outdoors, and asked if they were ok to go from there. They said yes, we've been outdoors before.. I double checked everything on them, Grigri, knots etc. Everything was fine. 10 minutes later as I'm on clip two of a new route down the way, I hear screams for help!..Rap down, run over as fast as I could, only to fine one of them clinging for dear life at the top of the route, while the belayer kept pulling out armfulls of slack!.. She thought the grigri didn't look "right"? ..WTF? and wanted to pull the rope out and re-thread it!!! (which would have been the wrong way had she done it!!!)..and get this, she couldn't figure out how to undo a screw locking biner!...so in the end, you have a moron who can't open a biner, while a climber at the top is in tears clinging for her life while the rope has pretty much been pulled out of the belay device! - had to slap my gri on quickfast and belay her down myself.. Lets just say I learned to pick trip buddies a little better now! wow! Lol, that's nuts.
This is what also happens when some do not take a course.
|
|
|
|
|
tradrenn
Nov 29, 2008, 9:32 PM
Post #72 of 228
(9303 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
|
Can you tell us how big was that tree you speak of ?
For my own curiosity:
What was the route ?
V.
|
|
|
|
|
rockie
Nov 29, 2008, 9:37 PM
Post #73 of 228
(9296 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 1130
|
j_ung wrote: rockie, after 22 years of this stuff, I can honestly say that a BFT is hands down my favorite anchor on earth. Yeah, it's only one anchor point, but if you have something thick as three of you, live and healthy, why on Earth wouldn't you make that your anchor? As I said later on, if you read it all, I would use a solid, huge thick tree as an anchor, when there is nothing else especially, and yes I know that you say makes sense. That, and Zeke's playing pretty nice with you. Maybe back off the insults just a bit. Please?
Sure, but for the record, the way the posts were going on at the start of all this, it didn't sound like anchoring to trees were going to be so solid, there's been a lot of near misses from peoples feedback on here so far. I've seen some pretty bad looking trees, one that was used as an anchor, and no he had not taken a lead course.
|
|
|
|
|
rockie
Nov 29, 2008, 9:38 PM
Post #74 of 228
(9294 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 1130
|
tradrenn wrote: Can you tell us how big was that tree you speak of ? For my own curiosity: What was the route ? V.
Smoke Bluffs, I'd have to show you.
|
|
|
|
|
rockie
Nov 29, 2008, 10:00 PM
Post #75 of 228
(9316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 1130
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
