And yet the poll doesn't lie. There are almost double the amount of people who don't want your dog there. Try to rationalize it all you want. You are imposing on well more than 1/2 the people at any crag you bring your dog too. I would venture to say, far more than 1/2.
In addition, why don;t we talk about the tards who bring their dogs to areas with BIG SIGNS EVERYWHERE saying No Dogs! Pay attention to peoples body language or just flat out open your ears and listen to them the next time you show up at the crag with your dog, very few people like dogs at crags. And this poll is proving it.
I agree, the people who bring their dogs places that are forboden to the hunds are morons.
But guess what else: I really don't give a shit if you want my dog there or not. Sorry. Thats not to say I will let my dog what she want, go up to you, step on your rope or eat your sandwich (even if you did throw it away on the trail). I will be respectful and so will my dog. But I'm not there to please you. I'm there to enjoy myself with my partner and my dog. If its legal its going to happen. Sorry. These areas are multi-use, and your right to enjoy the area without a dog is just as great as my right to enjoy the area with my dog. As long as its legal that is.
Again, sorry. I do everything I can to minimize my dog's impact on your day, but if its legal she's coming with me. And you know what- I can almost guaran-fucking-tee that you'll do things that annoy the piss out of me. Probably more than my dog sitting next to me basking in the sun. Way more. And guess what- I'll deal and have a fabulous day none-the-less. Grow up. Your enjoyment is in your hands and nobody elses.
Here is what I hear in this post: "My short term happiness is more important to me than almost anything else. Since I am not going to care, you better just accept it."
And out of curiosity, what does the average climber do every day that is more annoying? In a totally non-scientific way, it seems that dogs are #1 on the frequent annoying scale. What else is that annoying?
^^^^^ 62% of climbers don't want you to bring yur pet to the cliff.
^^^^^Where in that post did the poster mention they had a dog?
Probably MORE than 62% of women at the crag don't want every geezer staring at their butts when they are climbing, or their tits if they have on a tank, but...does THAT stop THEM?????
My point is that my desire to bring my dog somewhere where they are LEGALLY PERMITTED to enjoy the OUTDOORS is not an UNREASONABLE desire.
I'm sorry that it annoys you. If my desire were totally unreasonable, like holding a rave at the cliff, that would be a different story. But its not. Sorry it annoys so many people, but its not an unreasonably request, its legal, so I'll keep doing it. Tuff.
But to be fair, I try REALLY REALLY hard and go REALLY REALLY far out of my way to climb at secluded spots as much as possible so that I infringe on your experience as little as possible.
Called me a jack ass if you want. But why does might make right? Sorry you don't like it, but just cause I'm in the minority doesn't mean I can't do my legal enjoyable activity. Eh. Too bad.
What is wrong with you people? Whenever we go out climbing our dog comes along and hangs out with all the other dogs at the local crags. Mostly they know each other and enjoy socializing with each other. The only problems I have ever seen arise from dogs on leashes and people who haven’t spent enough time outside with their dogs to learn how to trust and manage them off leash. I mean seriously, where are you crazy uptight leash people coming from? Do you mostly live in cities where you take your poorly socialized dogs out on leashed walks all the time except for the rare occasion when you go to a climbing area and then keep them leashed there too?
^^^^^ 62% of climbers don't want you to bring yur pet to the cliff.
^^^^^Where in that post did the poster mention they had a dog?
Probably MORE than 62% of women at the crag don't want every geezer staring at their butts when they are climbing, or their tits if they have on a tank, but...does THAT stop THEM?????
i'd rather have every man and woman at the crag stare at my ass all day long than have a dog lick me.
I try as much as I can to go to places where having my dog off leash isn't an issue. I try really hard.
But I also understand that people don't like dogs. When I lived in cities without leash laws and somebody comes down the sidewalk in the opposite direction, I make my dog sit and stay till the person walks by.
YOU DON"T KNOW HOW PEOPLE WILL REACT TO YOUR DOG. I'm clearly a dog person but recognize that not everybody is. I always am thanked by people when I make my mutt sit for people.
Same goes at the crag. I am bring my dog if its allowed. Period. End of story. But I do realize that not everybody want dogs there and I do what I can to accommodate within reason. I also have seen dog access severely limited and/or taken away due to people violating leash laws. Be realistic.
Like I said, my dog is stilling going with me. But I am going to be responsible about it. If there are a bunch of people around I ask if they mind my dog off leash. If they say no or they say yes and give the evil eyes at some point, she goes back on leash.
You can't really take the "moral high ground" AND break the law at the same time......
Yo,"no one is around",that is the situation when you arrive with your dog,you have no idea if others are coming.
That's it? Ten times? Then you already understand that the Dacks is a dog friendly area. Don't try to change what the regulars/ tax payers want. We don't care! Notice it's not a federal park?
tomcat wrote:
What I got outta this thread is what I always do,you are going to ram your pet down our throats until we lobby hard enough to have them flat out outlawed at the cliff.
I highlighted in bold the important word. Interesting I must say. You're not one of those guys who then will complain when the local crag is shut down are you?
Some people are anti-dog. Some people are anti-gun. I'm neither, for I realize that others have needs, desires and rights. Is it the right of the few that we as a society protect or the right of the many?
Well, believe what you want, but I've been training/breeding/handling/showing stubborn large breeds for over 20 years.
We weren't the 350 lb fat guy who probably couldn't see his package showing at the Westminster Dog Show were you? You obviously haven't read anything by Dr. Ian Dunbar then. Just for the record here. You will never see me reaching for any leg of a dog.
anyone else see the delicious irony unfolding in this exchange? I guess it's not so ironic if you think your dog belongs at the crag and that it would never get in a fight, poop, etc etc.
reno wrote:
dynosore wrote:
Well, believe what you want, but I've been training/breeding/handling/showing stubborn large breeds for over 20 years. If the only dog fights you've ever seen are 2 labs mixing it up you don't know how intense a real dog fight is. Try that hind leg business on an Akita, Kuvasz, or Tibetan Mastiff and it's to the ER with you. Dogs that were bred specifically to kill other animals if necessary are a different beast than lassie. Once you see the speed and precision a 130lb well bred dog can attack with, you won't be reaching for any hind leg, guaranteed.
OK, then I guess I'll forward your information to the guy who originally wrote that method. What would he know, after all? He's only been training working breed dogs for police, personal protection, military, and other functions for nearly 40 years.
You can keep your show dogs. I bet they look mighty pretty.
I don't entirely understand where this thread has gone, but I feel left out, so I'm just going to go off on nonsensical shit of my own.
One time I brought my pet rock to the crag and the thing just went fucking nuts. If it wasn't trying to hump one rock it was picking a fight with another, which was odd because it's was always so well behaved at home. I tried grabbing it's hind legs to pull it off of this one particularly vicious stone only to find that pet rocks don't have hind legs. Left with no other option, I had to put it down by force. Those sad, smashed up googley eyes still haunt my dreams. Saddest day of my life... until I got bored enough to try and read through this whole tread.
Here is what I hear in this post: "My short term happiness is more important to me than almost anything else. Since I am not going to care, you better just accept it."
And out of curiosity, what does the average climber do every day that is more annoying? In a totally non-scientific way, it seems that dogs are #1 on the frequent annoying scale. What else is that annoying?
If 62% of people polled said they find kids in restaurants annoying, that doesn't mean I'm going to stay at home for every meal. It does mean I'm going to think about the most appropriate places to go, know when it's time to go home, and bring enough people to manage the number of kids. I'll also bring things to keep my kids occupied. If someone gets bent out of shape, that's on them. I personally hate heavily perfumed people in restaurants. That seriously impacts the taste of the food.
I have two dogs. One is reasonably well behaved, and used to come to the crag. We'd keep a close eye on her, always keep a tether equipped to a tree in case she needed it, and only went in parties where someone was always on the deck. You should have seen that old girl take on gentle slabs. She's a born scrambler.
The new dog - he's a bit of a tool. He's mildly fear-aggressive, and his warning signals are pretty subtle. I found that even when I tethered him far off the path and told people to leave him alone, not everyone knows how to listen. I decided on his first trip out that he was too big of a liability. It's too bad, but I leave both dogs at home now. The kid has come out a time or two, though.
Or, kick the point of contact between the two dogs (usually faces) until they break contact then kick at the first dog that lunges back in while bellowing something to the effect of "back off mutt!"
I'd love to see you try that with an Akita or a Dobie.
I did that somewhat regularly when dogs would attack my un-neutered timber-wolf/rottweiler who was over 100 pounds
Please bring your dog to the crag... just make sure you also bring charcoal, a spit, tortillas, rice and beans, and some good pico... and make sure there is enough for everyone...
Or, kick the point of contact between the two dogs (usually faces) until they break contact then kick at the first dog that lunges back in while bellowing something to the effect of "back off mutt!"
That will get you bitten 11 times out of 10.
When dogs fight, they are in a totally different drive than that of obedience, and any "Back off!" would be ignored, if it was even heard.
Bullshit. You can definitely beat a dog fight apart. Baseball bats help.
Or, kick the point of contact between the two dogs (usually faces) until they break contact then kick at the first dog that lunges back in while bellowing something to the effect of "back off mutt!"
I'd love to see you try that with an Akita or a Dobie.
Again, large blunt objects. I will say I only used this approach when my dog was being attacked by a Rottweiler but it worked.
Please bring your dog to the crag... just make sure you also bring charcoal, a spit, tortillas, rice and beans, and some good pico... and make sure there is enough for everyone...
Here is what I hear in this post: "My short term happiness is more important to me than almost anything else. Since I am not going to care, you better just accept it."
And out of curiosity, what does the average climber do every day that is more annoying? In a totally non-scientific way, it seems that dogs are #1 on the frequent annoying scale. What else is that annoying?
If 62% of people polled said they find kids in restaurants annoying, that doesn't mean I'm going to stay at home for every meal. It does mean I'm going to think about the most appropriate places to go, know when it's time to go home, and bring enough people to manage the number of kids. I'll also bring things to keep my kids occupied. If someone gets bent out of shape, that's on them. I personally hate heavily perfumed people in restaurants. That seriously impacts the taste of the food.
I have two dogs. One is reasonably well behaved, and used to come to the crag. We'd keep a close eye on her, always keep a tether equipped to a tree in case she needed it, and only went in parties where someone was always on the deck. You should have seen that old girl take on gentle slabs. She's a born scrambler.
The new dog - he's a bit of a tool. He's mildly fear-aggressive, and his warning signals are pretty subtle. I found that even when I tethered him far off the path and told people to leave him alone, not everyone knows how to listen. I decided on his first trip out that he was too big of a liability. It's too bad, but I leave both dogs at home now. The kid has come out a time or two, though.
I'm with you that bringing kids to a restaurant is an excellent parallel. The behaviors, the messes, the responsibilities all work well.
Are you suggesting that crags be separated into chuck-e-pees for dogs and chez leave me the frog alone for the dog free crowd?
And I agree that O.D.ing on Old Spice may be worse than poochie/kiddie.
Please bring your dog to the crag... just make sure you also bring charcoal, a spit, tortillas, rice and beans, and some good pico... and make sure there is enough for everyone...
Yeah ADK,just ten times.I live twelve minutes from Cathedral and Whitehorse,so not too much reason to head over there.They are not federal parks either,nor Crawford,nor Cannon.So fucking what?
Not a reason in the world to think access will be threatened by a ban on dogs,quite the opposite,nice try at panic though.
Leashed dogs create plenty of problems.I've seen a few nearly strangled when tied at the base of the cliff,with the owners two pitches up.In this case,at the base of Recompense,they had two dogs tied up,and then left all their shit yardsaled to the extent we couldn't flake a rope or put a pack down.
I've watched a couple epic because some jackass left their dog barking endlessly,while leashed to a tree,and they could not communicate over the constant barking.A few other people on the cliff trying to relay messages for them.
My ex brother in law,ex Marine,doesn't like dogs because a German Shepard ripped part of his face off when he was seven.He probably should have pulled on the dogs tail.Tends to tense up when your puppy comes running.But you don't care right?It's your God given right to bring your pet to the cliff right?
Another friend has been bitten four times.
Can't tell you how many times I've been hiking with my kids,and some asshole has their dog,or dogs running ahead on the trail,dog barking,growling at my kids,somewhere off in the distance one of you jackasses yelling"he won't bite".
Next time you go to the cliff,remember,whether anybody confronts you about your inability to leave your dog home,two thirds of the people you are looking at wish you did.
(This post was edited by tomcat on Feb 17, 2009, 11:07 PM)
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