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dingus
May 6, 2009, 2:35 AM
Post #51 of 174
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notapplicable
May 6, 2009, 3:39 AM
Post #52 of 174
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dingus wrote: notapplicable wrote: dingus wrote: notapplicable wrote: boymeetsrock wrote: notapplicable wrote: boymeetsrock wrote: Why U deleetz teh funny story Dingus? Whyz?!?!?! He is the sites most neufarious advocate of post deletion. While it's usually safe not to "preserve" the posts of long standing members, Dingus is the obligatory exception to this particular rule. This I know. Although I though he was backing off that stance a LITTLE. Oh well. Maybe he writes a book. Figured as much. Just thought I'd toss that out there for the uninitiated in hopes that future anecdotes will be quoted promptly. You boys do that to me and I will have posted my last story on this site. I mean that. I came back a little but I am NOT going to leave this material hanging around in the hands of people who do not respect my copyrights. Simple as that. I'm not trying to start an argument with management. We have a seperate peace here. You guys read the stories. What, do you want to possess them too? Well you cannnnnnnn't have it. Sorry. I 've given this stuff freely. I know its GOOD. I have an absolute right to delete it as I see fit. I hpoe you will respect that. DMT DMT Thanks bitch. DMT
Actually, I've been thinking about this a bit. While I disagree with you on this issue, I'm not gonna hound you about it. Everyone on here enjoys your anecdotes and I don't want to deter you from sharing them even if you persist in this odd pattern of behavior.
If I reply to one in the course of conversation I'm gonna quote it, beyond that it's up to the community as a whole to decide how they want to handle this particular issue.
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dingus
May 6, 2009, 10:29 AM
Post #53 of 174
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notapplicable
May 6, 2009, 4:06 PM
Post #54 of 174
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dingus wrote: notapplicable wrote: dingus wrote: notapplicable wrote: dingus wrote: notapplicable wrote: boymeetsrock wrote: notapplicable wrote: boymeetsrock wrote: Why U deleetz teh funny story Dingus? Whyz?!?!?! He is the sites most neufarious advocate of post deletion. While it's usually safe not to "preserve" the posts of long standing members, Dingus is the obligatory exception to this particular rule. This I know. Although I though he was backing off that stance a LITTLE. Oh well. Maybe he writes a book. Figured as much. Just thought I'd toss that out there for the uninitiated in hopes that future anecdotes will be quoted promptly. You boys do that to me and I will have posted my last story on this site. I mean that. I came back a little but I am NOT going to leave this material hanging around in the hands of people who do not respect my copyrights. Simple as that. I'm not trying to start an argument with management. We have a seperate peace here. You guys read the stories. What, do you want to possess them too? Well you cannnnnnnn't have it. Sorry. I 've given this stuff freely. I know its GOOD. I have an absolute right to delete it as I see fit. I hpoe you will respect that. DMT DMT Thanks bitch. DMT Actually, I've been thinking about this a bit. While I disagree with you on this issue, I'm not gonna hound you about it. Bully for you. You pretty much made me realize I cannot post this sort of stuff here anymore. Thanks for that. Now fuck off. DMT
Oh just quit it
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fjclimbsrocks
May 7, 2009, 2:50 AM
Post #55 of 174
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Let's get this back on topic, people...
I puked in my mouth once when fighting "the barn door" on a boulder problem. Does that count?
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quiteatingmysteak
May 9, 2009, 5:54 PM
Post #56 of 174
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Haha yeah man, everyones chompin' at the bit to make money off your stories, better look out.
Climbing fools rush with my brother at tahquitz, he was 15 I was 19, I get up to the pitch where it joins the Maidon (on that huge ledge) and the brown chex mix starts to leak out. I tie him off to a boulder and run into a little alcove off to the side and let loose with a brass section of splattery. All over the walls of this indent about 15 feet from the ledge, past some easy 3rd class. I'm standing there trying to wipe my ass with rocks, everything out there for everyone (it was like monday morning, should have been empty) and to my right is a guy on the Vampire... JUST past the face crux. The daggers they were glaring at me were pointier then a nuns nipples on ice...
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Cbyrne
May 9, 2009, 7:42 PM
Post #57 of 174
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the interwebz has ways of preserving things that once sprayed, remain. a little thing called google cache will provide all with a look back in time.
http://209.85.173.132/...mp;ct=clnk&gl=us
ctrl-c/ctrl-v to your hearts desire
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notapplicable
May 9, 2009, 9:03 PM
Post #58 of 174
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Cbyrne wrote: the interwebz has ways of preserving things that once sprayed, remain. a little thing called google cache will provide all with a look back in time. http://209.85.173.132/...mp;ct=clnk&gl=us ctrl-c/ctrl-v to your hearts desire
HAHA!!
The World Wide Web: Destroying notions of personal privacy since 1991.
(This post was edited by notapplicable on May 9, 2009, 9:04 PM)
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milesenoell
May 10, 2009, 4:52 AM
Post #59 of 174
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dingus wrote: You boys do that to me and I will have posted my last story on this site. I mean that. I came back a little but I am NOT going to leave this material hanging around in the hands of people who do not respect my copyrights. Simple as that. I'm not trying to start an argument with management. We have a seperate peace here. You guys read the stories. What, do you want to possess them too? Well you cannnnnnnn't have it. Sorry. I 've given this stuff freely. I know its GOOD. I have an absolute right to delete it as I see fit. I hpoe you will respect that. DMT DMT
Well Dingus, I for one would happily shell out some cash to get a copy of whatever book these stories are coming out of. Is this stuff in print or just pending?
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sbaclimber
May 10, 2009, 2:56 PM
Post #60 of 174
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Cbyrne wrote: the interwebz has ways of preserving things that once sprayed, remain. a little thing called google cache will provide all with a look back in time. http://url was here... ctrl-c/ctrl-v to your hearts desire
Dingus, you write a book, and I will buy it!
I grew up with fart humor, and that sir, is some of the best I've heard.
Respect!
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on May 10, 2009, 2:56 PM)
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dingus
May 10, 2009, 3:02 PM
Post #61 of 174
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scrapedape
May 10, 2009, 4:28 PM
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notapplicable wrote: Actually, I've been thinking about this a bit. While I disagree with you on this issue, I'm not gonna hound you about it. Everyone on here enjoys your anecdotes and I don't want to deter you from sharing them even if you persist in this odd pattern of behavior. If I reply to one in the course of conversation I'm gonna quote it, beyond that it's up to the community as a whole to decide how they want to handle this particular issue.
NA, for a guy so seemingly obsessed with personal property rights, you certainly have an odd view of intellectual property rights.
All of you: read what dingus is saying and think about it. Don't knee-jerk. Actually think about what his motives and interests are. And ask yourself what the costs and benefits of pirating his material are.
How do we best ensure the continued production and dissemination of creative WORKS? It goes well beyond our little forum here.
This is really an interesting problem academically, as well as practically.
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altelis
May 10, 2009, 7:46 PM
Post #64 of 174
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dingus wrote: I'll take one more stab at this before I sign off this thread.... ....gobbidy gook that i won't quote for the interest of the author How'd you like that? DMT
Duder, I totally agree with you. 99, hell, maybe even a square 100%
And you certainly have a history of posts that are well thought out, interesting, well written, etc.
But, I have to break it to you: Lamest Analogy/Metaphor EVAR.
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scrapedape
May 10, 2009, 8:03 PM
Post #65 of 174
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altelis wrote: dingus wrote: I'll take one more stab at this before I sign off this thread.... ....gobbidy gook that i won't quote for the interest of the author How'd you like that? DMT Duder, I totally agree with you. 99, hell, maybe even a square 100% And you certainly have a history of posts that are well thought out, interesting, well written, etc. But, I have to break it to you: Lamest Analogy/Metaphor EVAR.
Explain why. I think it's pretty apt.
Apart from you know... equating scatological humour with fine art.
But creativity is creativity, and as an audience we benefit from both equally, if in somewhat different ways.
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altelis
May 10, 2009, 8:11 PM
Post #66 of 174
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scrapedape wrote: altelis wrote: dingus wrote: I'll take one more stab at this before I sign off this thread.... ....gobbidy gook that i won't quote for the interest of the author How'd you like that? DMT Duder, I totally agree with you. 99, hell, maybe even a square 100% And you certainly have a history of posts that are well thought out, interesting, well written, etc. But, I have to break it to you: Lamest Analogy/Metaphor EVAR. Explain why. I think it's pretty apt. Apart from you know... equating scatological humour with fine art. But creativity is creativity, and as an audience we benefit from both equally, if in somewhat different ways.
It was a lame analagy (yes, intentional) b/c, well, its a "names are changed to protect the innocent but the story is still the same" type of analogy.
I guess my point was that it wasn't fully instructive b/c the situation is exactly the same he just changed text to painting.
I will concede that perhaps I don't find the analogy instructive because in my mind creative works are creative works, be they textual, painting, collage, photography, digital media, auditory works, etc. I pretty much equate them all when it comes to creativity and rights to ownership.....
I find the most useful analogies are the ones that bring in a far-afield situation that helps to shine light on the current conundrum. I'm not saying that this analogy isn't apt (ie I'm not accusing him of a false analogy) but rather simply of a non-creative one.
You must be precise. I was. I said it was lame. YOU accused me of accusing him of not being apt. And that was a crime I did not commit. Savy?
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dingus
May 10, 2009, 8:34 PM
Post #67 of 174
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notapplicable
May 10, 2009, 8:34 PM
Post #68 of 174
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scrapedape wrote: altelis wrote: dingus wrote: I'll take one more stab at this before I sign off this thread.... ....gobbidy gook that i won't quote for the interest of the author How'd you like that? DMT Duder, I totally agree with you. 99, hell, maybe even a square 100% And you certainly have a history of posts that are well thought out, interesting, well written, etc. But, I have to break it to you: Lamest Analogy/Metaphor EVAR. Explain why. I think it's pretty apt. Apart from you know... equating scatological humour with fine art. But creativity is creativity, and as an audience we benefit from both equally, if in somewhat different ways.
Its a piss poor analogy because this site has a readily used quote feature. He knows its here, he uses it himself. All the time he does. This place is constructed around the archiving of our interactions and to feign surprise and indignation when people raise objections to holes being punched in that archive is disingenuous.
What if a quote string 6 posts deep had been constructed around his original post? Would everyone whos post contained his be expected to delete theirs as well? Serious question, what then?
When a person decides to post to this site, they are making a contribution to the archive of collective discourse. Simple as that. To withdraw ones contributions is to mar the contributions of the others here.
A better analogy would be a group of people painting a mural together and one person coming back later and throwing paint thinner or the parts they worked on. It doesn't matter that they only removed their contributions, the whole deal is fucked at that point.
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altelis
May 10, 2009, 8:44 PM
Post #69 of 174
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Touche.
I have a question, though. And this isn't meant as a "gotchya" question, but rather a serious inquiry.
Clearly, quoting some random dribble doesn't hurt ownership/originality. Like you quoting my little snippet. However, how do you feel about you quoting other people's posts? Especial, long well-thought out original pieces of work? Do you consciously avoid it? Do you unconsciously avoid it? Do you consciously do it?
I think your answer will be telling and instructive to those who disagree with you. Like I said, that wasn't meant to be "gotchya" in any way.
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notapplicable
May 10, 2009, 8:50 PM
Post #70 of 174
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scrapedape wrote: notapplicable wrote: Actually, I've been thinking about this a bit. While I disagree with you on this issue, I'm not gonna hound you about it. Everyone on here enjoys your anecdotes and I don't want to deter you from sharing them even if you persist in this odd pattern of behavior. If I reply to one in the course of conversation I'm gonna quote it, beyond that it's up to the community as a whole to decide how they want to handle this particular issue. NA, for a guy so seemingly obsessed with personal property rights, you certainly have an odd view of intellectual property rights. All of you: read what dingus is saying and think about it. Don't knee-jerk. Actually think about what his motives and interests are. And ask yourself what the costs and benefits of pirating his material are. How do we best ensure the continued production and dissemination of creative WORKS? It goes well beyond our little forum here. This is really an interesting problem academically, as well as practically.
I agree that allowing an artist maximum control over how and when their works are appriciated is key to encouraging them to share. There are limits though.
It's all about context and reasonable expectation.
He didn't create a site or contribute to an existing site that was designed for the display of art. He contributed to a line of dialogue in a venue that is designed around the preservation of that dialogue for all to see. Members and nonmembers alike.
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milesenoell
May 10, 2009, 10:44 PM
Post #71 of 174
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notapplicable wrote: A better analogy would be a group of people painting a mural together and one person coming back later and throwing paint thinner or the parts they worked on. It doesn't matter that they only removed their contributions, the whole deal is fucked at that point.
Now that's a good analogy, but I'm still playing with hypotheticals. What if there was a feature which one could use that prevented quoting or archiving? Would people be welcome to ephemeral gems, knowing that there will be holes when the short display period ends? It seems that such a feature would certainly appeal to contributors like Dingus, and who knows how many others who haven't offered up their work because of the current situation. But my question is more aimed at the rest of us readers. Would you be interested in such a feature?
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dingus
May 11, 2009, 12:10 AM
Post #72 of 174
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altelis
May 11, 2009, 1:42 AM
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Yessir, I see what you mean. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I hadn't really separated out those two very different intentions from each other. I'd just sorta lumped quoting in w/, well, quoting.
EOD? End of days? Elsie's Organ Dealers? Estranged occidental diapers? Elephants organizing diarrhea?
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bill413
May 11, 2009, 3:27 AM
Post #74 of 174
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dingus wrote: Quoting to 'preserve the story in case the author deletes the original' [..] when done as was suggested in this thread is a mild form of theft.
I agree with several positions that have been espoused in this thread. While I hate to see dingus' writings vanish, they are his work, his property, and he should have control over them.
One of the fears of forums (in general) of making materials editable is people changing the meaning of what they have posted, to make others' posts seem....different than what they wanted. (A: "Product Z is great!" B: "I agree with A." A: changes post to say "Product Z rots.").
I am not saying that DMT does this - I have too much respect for him to even entertain that he would consider this. However, it is a potential problem with others. Giving us the edit feature allows both the alteration and the vanishing. You get good with bad.
Personally, I try and quote only the pertinent parts of a post to provide context to my answers (serious or not). I do this for several reasons...one of them is saving space/bandwidth/etc. One of them is to isolate the piece I am addressing. In some cases, it is to respect the wishes of the originator. (vide supra)
Everyone should be aware that once you expose information (especially in electronic form) you have given up some control over it. For printed materials, we have had xerox & fax. For electronic materials, we have quoting, internet archiving, people snatching it up onto their hard disks, etc. For music, we have had tapes, CD's, peer-to-peer bit torrent files...etc. Our control of what we have produced is less than we think.
We should be concious in all of this that if we do not support people who create things (monetarily & respect-wise) than we will see a tremendous decline in those who chose to create.
If dingus asks us not to quote his stories...sad as it is to not preserve them...we should respect his wishes.
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curt
May 11, 2009, 5:10 AM
Post #75 of 174
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dingus wrote: I'll take one more stab at this before I sign off this thread.... say you paint a nice painting. You're proud of it and your friends like it and tell you so. You like to share and frankly you dig people enjoying your work, so you allow your painting to be displayed in the J-ung Art Gallary. Then one day, for whatever reason, you decide for reasons nobel or base, to take your painting down from the Art Galley, take it home. The art director says, no, you can't take it down. And you find several people have copied it and are now distributing prints. And the very same people with whom you wanted to share now exert ownership rights over your painting and say you have NO RIGHT to take it down. And the art gallary owner jusyt shrugs and says in flowerly language... tough shit. How'd you like that? DMT
Whatever. As much as I appreciate your contributions, none of us are painting Picassos here.
Curt
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