it should be made stinky.

Is this why I keep finding tighty-whities abandoned in secluded pee spots?

And what is up with TP on belay ledges that are only 1 pitch off the ground? This isn't big wall climbing! And even it if were, those folks carry poop tubes!

I saw so much TP in Red Rocks. It was pretty nasty!

Holy shit Dingus, I laughed so hard reading that, my eyes were watering lol

Brilliant, he's gone and deleted them, and you turtle-heads didn't quote him...

Thanks.

Truth of life # 9:

NEVER trust a fart!

I don't fart while climbing because I don't climb hard enough.

I just knew this would be an angry thread.

I have farted on many a belayer, spotter, passerby, unleashed child and crag dog. I'm one of the gassiest people I've ever met. Terrence and Philip gassy. I have those irritable bowels.

Nothing solid to report here but there's always lots of barking spiders around when I climb!!

post deleted

Why U deleetz teh funny story Dingus? Whyz?!?!?!

Angry, there's dry gas and then there's wet gas. Hehe. And then there is chunky gas. And of course projectile spray gas.

He is the sites most neufarious advocate of post deletion. While it's usually safe not to "preserve" the posts of long standing members, Dingus is the obligatory exception to this particular rule.

This I know. Although I though he was backing off that stance a LITTLE. Oh well. Maybe he writes a book.

Brilliant, he's gone and deleted them, and you turtle-heads didn't quote him...

Thanks.

You boys do that to me and I will have posted my last story on this site. I mean that. I came back a little but I am NOT going to leave this material hanging around in the hands of people who do not respect my copyrights.

Simple as that. I'm not trying to start an argument with management. We have a seperate peace here.

You guys read the stories. What, do you want to possess them too?

Well you cannnnnnnn't have it.

Sorry. I 've given this stuff freely. I know its GOOD. I have an absolute right to delete it as I see fit. I hpoe you will respect that.

DMT

DMT

Dood.. You changed your Sig. !!

Man the old one was one of the best statements I have ever read. It's my screen saver at work.

If only climbers would abide.
.....the dude abides, why can't climbers?

Also known as Sharting. Half fart, half shit.

Thanks bitch.

DMT

Bully for you. You pretty much made me realize I cannot post this sort of stuff here anymore. Thanks for that.

Now fuck off.

DMT

the interwebz has ways of preserving things that once sprayed, remain. a little thing called google cache will provide all with a look back in time.

http://209.85.173.132/...mp;ct=clnk&gl=us

ctrl-c/ctrl-v to your hearts desire

You boys do that to me and I will have posted my last story on this site. I mean that. I came back a little but I am NOT going to leave this material hanging around in the hands of people who do not respect my copyrights.

Simple as that. I'm not trying to start an argument with management. We have a seperate peace here.

You guys read the stories. What, do you want to possess them too?

Well you cannnnnnnn't have it.

Sorry. I 've given this stuff freely. I know its GOOD. I have an absolute right to delete it as I see fit. I hpoe you will respect that.

DMT

DMT

the interwebz has ways of preserving things that once sprayed, remain. a little thing called google cache will provide all with a look back in time.

http://url was here...

ctrl-c/ctrl-v to your hearts desire

How'd you like that?

Actually, I've been thinking about this a bit. While I disagree with you on this issue, I'm not gonna hound you about it. Everyone on here enjoys your anecdotes and I don't want to deter you from sharing them even if you persist in this odd pattern of behavior.

If I reply to one in the course of conversation I'm gonna quote it, beyond that it's up to the community as a whole to decide how they want to handle this particular issue.

I'll take one more stab at this before I sign off this thread....

....gobbidy gook that i won't quote for the interest of the author

How'd you like that?

DMT

Duder, I totally agree with you. 99, hell, maybe even a square 100%

And you certainly have a history of posts that are well thought out, interesting, well written, etc.

But, I have to break it to you: Lamest Analogy/Metaphor EVAR.

Explain why. I think it's pretty apt.

Apart from you know... equating scatological humour with fine art.

But creativity is creativity, and as an audience we benefit from both equally, if in somewhat different ways.

Explain why. I think it's pretty apt.

Apart from you know... equating scatological humour with fine art.

But creativity is creativity, and as an audience we benefit from both equally, if in somewhat different ways.

NA, for a guy so seemingly obsessed with personal property rights, you certainly have an odd view of intellectual property rights.

All of you: read what dingus is saying and think about it. Don't knee-jerk. Actually think about what his motives and interests are. And ask yourself what the costs and benefits of pirating his material are.

How do we best ensure the continued production and dissemination of creative WORKS? It goes well beyond our little forum here.

This is really an interesting problem academically, as well as practically.

A better analogy would be a group of people painting a mural together and one person coming back later and throwing paint thinner or the parts they worked on. It doesn't matter that they only removed their contributions, the whole deal is fucked at that point.

Quoting to 'preserve the story in case the author deletes the original' [..] when done as was suggested in this thread is a mild form of theft.

I'll take one more stab at this before I sign off this thread....

say you paint a nice painting. You're proud of it and your friends like it and tell you so.

You like to share and frankly you dig people enjoying your work, so you allow your painting to be displayed in the J-ung Art Gallary.

Then one day, for whatever reason, you decide for reasons nobel or base, to take your painting down from the Art Galley, take it home.

The art director says, no, you can't take it down. And you find several people have copied it and are now distributing prints. And the very same people with whom you wanted to share now exert ownership rights over your painting and say you have NO RIGHT to take it down.

And the art gallary owner jusyt shrugs and says in flowerly language... tough shit.

How'd you like that?

DMT

The "right" to?
Actually, unless you're somehow making money off of these posts, or other people are (similarly for your daughters' crayon drawings), or people are not giving credit where credit is do - which IS done when quoting - you're spouting nonsense about "rights" regarding copying.

It's true you can remove whatever is within your power to remove, but by virtue of how this place works you should know better than to complain about people quoting you. It's out of your power. You acted knowing the consequences of those actions. You don't want people stealing your fart stories...? Copyright it or refrain from puting amateur content on the internet.
This is essentially the equivalent to someone linking a bunch of friends to my photography or emailing them to other people. I can take it down, but the other processes have already begun.

Feel free to find someone who wants to pay an amateur to hear/read a story about farting or crapping. Then go sue someone after. Good luck with that.
It's a campfire story which whomever you told it to certainly has the right to repeat in a similar manner and even more so if altered.

I am not saying that DMT does this - I have too much respect for him to even entertain that he would consider this. However, it is a potential problem with others. Giving us the edit feature allows both the alteration and the vanishing. You get good with bad.

Personally, I try and quote only the pertinent parts of a post to provide context to my answers (serious or not). I do this for several reasons...one of them is saving space/bandwidth/etc. One of them is to isolate the piece I am addressing. In some cases, it is to respect the wishes of the originator. (vide supra)

When I realized rc.com consistently put hurdles in front of users wishing to control their own posts and the then prevalent attitude that rc.com could be made into a money machine for the farm animals that moved into the farm house, I quietly edited many of my 'highly rated' posts to zero. Except for 2 gear articles I wrote for jung, I stopped posting anything of worth on rc.com.

Now that's a good analogy, but I'm still playing with hypotheticals. What if there was a feature which one could use that prevented quoting or archiving? Would people be welcome to ephemeral gems, knowing that there will be holes when the short display period ends? It seems that such a feature would certainly appeal to contributors like Dingus, and who knows how many others who haven't offered up their work because of the current situation. But my question is more aimed at the rest of us readers. Would you be interested in such a feature?

PS: n/a, I appreciate your mural concept, but I don't think a person's individual right to her own property should be compromised because the work was part of a collective.

I understand the interdependence you cite, n/a.

Very true. But even my daughers have the absolute right to take down their refrigerator crayon drawings if they so choose. And none of the neighborhood kids have a right to copy them before they are removed.

DMT

Very true. But even my daughers have the absolute right to take down their refrigerator crayon drawings if they so choose. And none of the neighborhood kids have a right to copy them before they are removed.

DMT

Internet = free sharing of information

http://www3.nfb.ca/...p-a-remix-manifesto/

Are you arguing that dingus should be able to start a thread with one of his anecdotes as the OP (which he has done), have an entire thread constructed around that OP and then go back and remove not only his OP but all his posts to the thread and leave a total clusterfuck? Do you feel that is an appropriate level of control over the site to give to it's users?

Deleting your post serves little purpose, and is only fooling you into thinking nobody has copied it.

I admit, I go back and forth about this. I want to respect Dingus' rights, but I also want to respect the communal mural.
I do think that if a producer of a work requests for it to be removed that fair consideration should be given to his desires, even if there is not a legal mandate to do so. This doesn't mean absolute consideration once it is let out, but fair & reasonable.
Yes, once something is out on the internet, it is out. However, it is an individual choice to propagate it or not.
As I said, I am of two minds. I don't fully understand Dingus' desire to withdraw his material, but (site terms of use not withstanding) recognize his authorship rights to do so. I also definitely understand the desire of many to not have content disappear - especially when it has received a reply.

Tough decisions. Tough problem.

Bill, I think you have put out what I always feel is a very important distinction. Legal vs. right (not as in "bill of" but rather as in "opposite of wrong").

Sure, there are lots and lots of things that we can legally do but to do so would make us assholes.

We, here, have a community that shares certain experiences, likes, desires, etc., and we meet here voluntarily to talk about, well, pretty much everything....

My plea to all of you is to not make this discussion about what we as posters to an internet forum have as legal rights. Or some abstract discussion about what the internet has done in terms of our understanding of ownership vis a vis digital representations of thought. I would ask that we as a community rather discuss specifically what we as a community want to see in terms of these matters.

Don't discuss "the ramifications of the internet to ownership of text in online forums", discuss how we want our community specifically to behave.

Dingus does not want to this story out on the internet, and he says so. I have a copy in my cache, and even have a copy saved as a Word document. Does this make me more powerful, or the keeper of something that I may be able to exploit as I see fit?

If Dingus wishes is not to have this story passed around, then I will certainly comply, not because I am his friend. I am not, I have never met him.
I will do this to try to do the right thing, period.

When MY community seeks to exert control over MY content I no longer feel a part of that commuity.

Much as I would object if I tossed some cams into the community rack at the Canyonlands only to be told that I couldn't have them back.

What none of you are willing to acknowlegde or speak to is this.... this site is built on user content. Its WORTH is user content. USER... content.

USER

Not jung. Not rc.com. Not some unpaid moderator.

USER.

It is my contention that if you want my content you will give me the tools to manage that content. No tools no content.

That's it. Its a nutshell issue for me. If I cannot delete my own content then it isn't mine.

I know that my content has value. But that isn't the point.

The point is - its MY content. When others purposely seek to take that control from me they are stealing what is mine.

Fuck that.

DMT

Internet = free sharing of information

http://www3.nfb.ca/...p-a-remix-manifesto/

My stories mean FAR MORE TO ME than all the climbing gear I have ever owned or ever will. Its clear to me you don't understand the well from which my stories are drawn.

Ever read Steinbeck's "The Chrysanthemums?"

She shared a piece of her soul and it was treated like a possession or worse, like garbage, by the one in whom she invested trust.

No, Copyright laws apply.

Yes, I know they DO, but there are some very interesting points about copyright laws made in the film that I was previously unaware of. Though copyright is surely useful for protecting rights it is much less useful in allowing culture to progress. Everything is based from something that came before it like jobs, ideas, activities, etc. In the same way, things that get copyrighted (music, words, movies, medicine, research, intellect) are also derived from earlier work. No story is original, no idea is original and no song is original -- they are built on the foundations (sometimes floors or MANY floors) below them.

I would argue that the sense of ownership in the GROUP or community is not the problem. It is the sense of ownership of the individual. We are all part of the same thing building off of the floors below us, and hopefully the next community will collectively build on our work, legally or not.



just my opinion.