Yes, I'd very much consider the just such a litmus test. The lack of personal responsibility on display here is pretty astounding from my perspective. Probably a generational thing; old trad climbers rarely take anything for granted - especially gear.

Well, let me ask this - do you think OP would rather only have people who can pass 'the test' buy their gear? Maybe all climbing gear companies could provide an aptitude test along with their cams.

Clearly, OP would like as many people as possible to buy their gear and realize the importance of keeping their customers informed as well as continuing to improve their design.

Sorry, I disagree. Anyone looking at the picture of the axle tabs above and who doesn't react with studied concern and cautious use of them shouldn't be trad climbing.

What OP or any other gear manufacturer wants is irrelevant; what is relevant is whether climbers take responsibility for their own safety, whether they have an mindset that lends itself to surviving trad climbing.

Hey CIS- I don't recall this incident... Got a link?

Terminology. You meant "undercammed".

I don't think that is an unreasonable request.

Do you think the best course of action is to let natural selection take it's course?

... rather than berate them for not recognizing immediately that a link cam may be a fragile piece of equipment, we would be better to educate them in a more constructive manner.

oops. You're right.

Whew. I was beginning to think there was another "obvious" failure mode I knew nothing about.

Jay

It is, and let me explain why. Cams are simple devices and no aspect of them is hidden from you save the swages. No education of any kind or specialized interest of any kind is requred to evaluate the Link Cam linkage axle tabs for robustness - none. Any twelve year old with experience breaking and bending average household objects could figure it out - "hey, those look pretty skinny".

[image]http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/omegasfront_2_.jpg[/image]

The fundamental truth and reality is there are no product engineers, customer service reps, hang tags, or counselors on lead with you - you are alone with the undeniable reality of the gear you've brought and the rock you chosen to climb. No one has or should have any responsibility at that moment but you and your belayer. Anything else and you're both dreaming and setting yourself up to get hury eventually.

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Aric - hey, do you have the Link Cam I sent you for testing? How about measuring the thickness of one of those tabs for me will you?

Maybe it's for the best that you don't trad climb these days.

Absolutely not, that's why I'm attempting to point out the cold, harsh reality that is experienced on lead when trad climbing. What you and many others here are suggesting and displaying is exactly that - Darwinian behavior that can get you killed. You are desperately misguided if you think there is anything OP should or could do relative to assume any responsibility for, or attempt to compensate for, your inability to recognize an overwhelmingly obvious weakness and limitation of the design. Even a shred of critical thought, beyond the requisite common sense, would lead to the inescapable conclusion that the limitations are exactly what delivers the advantages - they are inseperable. Anyone who is blind to, or in denial about, the obvious limitations of these devices shouldn't be trad climbing because you are quite likely going to get badly hurt sooner or later. Also, marginal gear placements abound in climbing and they have no manufacturer, no instructions, no caveats - you are solely responsible for their appropriate use; it's no different with gear.

It is, and let me explain why. Cams are simple devices and no aspect of them is hidden from you save the swages. No education of any kind or specialized interest of any kind is requred to evaluate the Link Cam linkage axle tabs for robustness - none. Any twelve year old with experience breaking and bending average household objects could figure it out - "hey, those look pretty skinny".

The last set of tabs (the ones the aluminum section connects to) are 0.063" thick and the other ones (connecting the steel sections) are 0.055" thick.

I just can't wrap my head around why you would be so stead fast against publishing a caveat with the gear literature

Can you tell what the material, form, and heat treat is by sight? Do you know how much the strength of material varies with alloy and heat treat? Do you know how brittle material behaves in conjunction with stress concentrations?

That's not what's happening. What's happening is some particularly obtuse folks suffering from a dangerous form of denial and consumer mentality are unnecessarily risking their lives by assume someone else should be responsible for their life and limb.

The 'education' that they aren't interested in is the Darwinian reality that you are completely alone on lead and solely responsible for every aspect of every second that passes - there is no 'would', 'should', or 'could' - only acting wisely with the knowledge at hand and living unharmed.

its exactly whats happening, you're just stating it globally where i was referring to this specific example. in either case, constructive criticism goes much further than berating someone because they somehow assumed that a company would take total responsibility for their products. cant imagine where they would get that idea, living in this country.

If the gear can fail in nonobvious ways, the manufacturer should issue a warning in connection with the product literature and possibly through advertisements or other media alerts if the issue only comes to light after product launch.

Your example about carabiners is a pretty good one: they do come with instructions that warn of at least some of the dangers you list, and I wish the instructions were more comprehensive. Hard to see how that would increase costs by more than pennies, a small price to pay to possible save someone's life.

I guess you haven't looked at hang tags of gear lately, because that's pretty much what they do. The Petzl diagrams are my favorites. They actually are able to communicate, without words, in a single picture, "If you spill a chemical on your gear, and you aren't sure if it's safe, email us, and we'll let you know."

Jay