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kobaz
Nov 19, 2009, 4:48 AM
Post #76 of 124
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Aequitas wrote: Is there a reason big bros are slung through the pre drilled holes rather than just slinging the main body of the piece. The only reason I can see is to clip it to your harness.
Yes. A big bro has parallel tapered ends.
Kinda like: \---\
The drilled hole is on the left side. As you pull down on the left, it will cam into place. imagine if a sling was free to travel to the right side... it would most likely just lever out the big bro and it would be useless.
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billcoe_
Nov 19, 2009, 5:02 AM
Post #77 of 124
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Context is everything. I was on that climb with the first jingus Tri-cam.
The story of the first Tri cam, behind what appears to be a loose block is this: it was an aid first ascent called Lone Wolf and the Last Hurrah. Adam Winslow was leading and he gets to that loose block. It wiggled. He hit it with a hammer, but realizing that it was too large to toss AND THERE WAS A CROWD of @ 9-10 climbers directly below, and he was too high off the deck to get it too far out, he wisely chose to just use it in situ. For a single body weight move. It worked great for him. He later ripped out another piece and a Pika Toucan or Tomahawk held his fall.
These were on that climb as well but I think I placed these.
All pictures by Ujahn Davisson
Aid climbing pro can be anything. Unlike free stuff. Thats a the problem with it out of context.
Here's a piece I used 2 of in a row for pro on a ground up free FA couple of months ago elsewhere. No joke, had I fallen and they ripped, it would have been long and ugly! Fish made them for me. Which is why Fish rules.
Someone should look around for a Joesph pic of that Crack and Up he uses for free climbing.
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evanwish
Nov 19, 2009, 6:21 AM
Post #78 of 124
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EDITED: for usefullness
bomber. they can be placed passively.. 
this is a complete joke picture, had about a millimeter contact in the rock, just a tip of the lobe, and somehow magically held cam-weight!
my friend wanted to see me place it (right out of the box).. so i found a creatively bad placement in the backyard fountain, held body-weight without budging.
assuming this was a placement in real rock, it would have some problems, but would most likely hold in a controlled fall. NOT a comforting placement though. the inner two lobes are all the way retracted, while the outer two are un-even and one is even tipped out. also it is perched dangerously close to the edge of the crack. if this was your only option i would clip it super long to make sure it wouldn't get any rope drag to possibly rattle the outer lobes out
Nearly tipped out #6
used in the narrowest part of the crack, aka: best you can get. the cam is at about 40% so its secure-ish, but ropedrag could easily knock it out of its placement. ie: walk it 6 inches up into the +8" section of the crack
9" Valley Giant placed nearly tipped out in an easy squeeze chimney/offwidth
out of all the different tipped out cam placements for all the different types of cams, i feel most comfortable on the valley giant because of its heavy springs. the heavy springs keep it in place much better than any other cam. this much tipped out i would say is fine for the valley, but i still would look at it as suspect and clip it long enough. plus a tipped out #9 is big enough for your body to be the protection!
(This post was edited by evanwish on Nov 19, 2009, 8:09 AM)
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airscape
Nov 19, 2009, 7:39 AM
Post #79 of 124
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I would really like it if the posters of the pics could enlighten us nontrad folk about the pros and cons of the particular placements in the photos.
Everyone just posts pics and they don't say anything about them.
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evanwish
Nov 19, 2009, 8:11 AM
Post #80 of 124
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airscape wrote: I would really like it if the posters of the pics could enlighten us nontrad folk about the pros and cons of the particular placements in the photos. Everyone just posts pics and they don't say anything about them.
good idea, edit made
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airscape
Nov 19, 2009, 8:21 AM
Post #81 of 124
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Your post shall now get 5 stars!
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climbingtrash
Nov 19, 2009, 1:18 PM
Post #82 of 124
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This is sweet! I could use a couple of those.
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sbaclimber
Nov 19, 2009, 2:44 PM
Post #83 of 124
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The carabiner's only for scale, not actually part of the placement 
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Nov 19, 2009, 8:47 PM)
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evanwish
Nov 19, 2009, 5:09 PM
Post #84 of 124
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climbingtrash wrote: This is sweet! I could use a couple of those. [image]http://cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/medium/Fish_Tie_Off.jpg[/image]
why not just use a regular sling that's more versatile? I'm pretty sure this is the "rabbit runner," but you'd have to have that pre-set up for the route... and racking?
otherwise, i think it would hold much more securely than a regular girth hitch. (the clove hitch slinging is my favorite if i can get one.)
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evanwish
Nov 19, 2009, 6:11 PM
Post #86 of 124
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this is a cool picture from tom's valley giant website, I like it because it shows two cams (the #9 and #12) both in very different types of placements. the #9 on the bottom is very well cammed and appears very solid, the #12 is at its outer expansion where one lobe is tipped out and the others are relatively close, the cam was placed with the stem perfectly in the direction of pull. Its not the best placement, but then again, i usually feel really comfortable on the VG's.
Big Bro #4 in a perfectly parallel section of relatively non-parallel rock. just remember when placing big bro's, just look hard enough and you'll find some good spots... this one went inside i dent in the rock on the sling side, super bomber.
this is a picture i took one day cragging and on a lunch break. I like this because it demonstrates to new climbers how if you can't find a piece/placement you're looking for, just look around and you'll find something else. (i've noticed that new climbers will just pick a spot and pray they have gear for that exact spot, as opposed to seeing what gear you have in excess and seeing if that can coincide with the general area where you need gear) Above the frame of the picture is a #5, #6, #9, and big bro #4 and below it fit a bunch of smaller gear.
and finally, you must always remember to be calm and relaxed whenever you place gear, like this guy: 
picture stolen from i don't remember where
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freerangequark
Nov 19, 2009, 7:09 PM
Post #87 of 124
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Here is a website which has some videos of good and bad gear placements being pulled to failure.
http://splitterclimbinggear.com/Videos.html
-Glenn
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csproul
Nov 19, 2009, 7:25 PM
Post #88 of 124
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Those were kind of fun to watch.
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sbaclimber
Nov 19, 2009, 8:17 PM
Post #89 of 124
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qwert wrote: sbaclimber wrote: The carabiner's only for scale, not actually part of the placement Ankertau? how heavy is that thing? apart from that: i would feal uneasy about the outwards flare of the placement, and it doesnt look wedged that thight as it should, but i guess with such a rope this would be really hard to do. Joke or was the only option for that route? qwert
It is a demonstrative placement at ground level. It was absolutely bomber though. The flare is only in front of the placement. Where the knot is, it is not flaring at all, it is actually a textbook constriction.
Yes, it is an Ankertau, bought mail order from Hamburg. Cost me as much as a BD cam, and weighs more than my entire 60m rope (it weighs 3.5kg, my rope's less than 3) 
I have actually carried and placed it though. I placed it where the crack continues to widen, above the top of this pic:
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Nov 20, 2009, 9:32 AM)
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brokesomeribs
Nov 22, 2009, 12:46 AM
Post #90 of 124
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Ankertau?
Googling turned up nothing - is it just a huge hunk of rope? Would love some info.
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sbaclimber
Nov 22, 2009, 12:57 PM
Post #91 of 124
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brokesomeribs wrote: Ankertau? Googling turned up nothing - is it just a huge hunk of rope? Would love some info.
It's 3m of 32mm LIROS Super Yacht Mooring Line
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Nov 22, 2009, 12:58 PM)
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foodgeek
Nov 22, 2009, 2:38 PM
Post #92 of 124
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sbaclimber wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: Ankertau? Googling turned up nothing - is it just a huge hunk of rope? Would love some info. is my friend It's 3m of 32mm LIROS Super Yacht Mooring Line
You trust something only rated for 175kn? 
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sbaclimber
Nov 22, 2009, 2:44 PM
Post #93 of 124
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foodgeek wrote: sbaclimber wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: Ankertau? Googling turned up nothing - is it just a huge hunk of rope? Would love some info. is my friend It's 3m of 32mm LIROS Super Yacht Mooring LineYou trust something only rated for 175kn?
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qwert
Nov 23, 2009, 9:38 AM
Post #94 of 124
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sbaclimber wrote: foodgeek wrote: sbaclimber wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: Ankertau? Googling turned up nothing - is it just a huge hunk of rope? Would love some info. is my friend It's 3m of 32mm LIROS Super Yacht Mooring LineYou trust something only rated for 175kn? I know, it's pretty risky, but I like living on the edge...
qwert
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sbaclimber
Nov 23, 2009, 10:36 AM
Post #95 of 124
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qwert wrote: sbaclimber wrote: foodgeek wrote: sbaclimber wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: Ankertau? Googling turned up nothing - is it just a huge hunk of rope? Would love some info. is my friend It's 3m of 32mm LIROS Super Yacht Mooring LineYou trust something only rated for 175kn? I know, it's pretty risky, but I like living on the edge... those friggin Elbsandstein retards with their death wish ... qwert
Nobody in their right mind would carry an extra 3.5kg just to make a 10m runout 2m shorter.
I just "tied" a new even-bigger-than-those-before monkey's fist last night. Will have to see if I can get pic of it in action soon
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Nov 23, 2009, 1:00 PM)
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coolcat83
Nov 23, 2009, 1:07 PM
Post #96 of 124
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sbaclimber wrote: qwert wrote: sbaclimber wrote: foodgeek wrote: sbaclimber wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: Ankertau? Googling turned up nothing - is it just a huge hunk of rope? Would love some info. is my friend It's 3m of 32mm LIROS Super Yacht Mooring LineYou trust something only rated for 175kn? I know, it's pretty risky, but I like living on the edge... those friggin Elbsandstein retards with their death wish ... qwert I know, that's the huge irony of me climbing there at all! Nobody in their right mind would carry an extra 3.5kg just to make a 10m runout 2m shorter. I just "tied" a new even-bigger-than-those-before monkey's fist last night. Will have to see if I can get pic of it in action soon
I think you're just trying to prove you have the biggest set of, uh, knots around here.
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sbaclimber
Nov 23, 2009, 1:18 PM
Post #97 of 124
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coolcat83 wrote: sbaclimber wrote: qwert wrote: sbaclimber wrote: foodgeek wrote: sbaclimber wrote: brokesomeribs wrote: Ankertau? Googling turned up nothing - is it just a huge hunk of rope? Would love some info. is my friend It's 3m of 32mm LIROS Super Yacht Mooring LineYou trust something only rated for 175kn? I know, it's pretty risky, but I like living on the edge... those friggin Elbsandstein retards with their death wish ... qwert I know, that's the huge irony of me climbing there at all! Nobody in their right mind would carry an extra 3.5kg just to make a 10m runout 2m shorter. I just "tied" a new even-bigger-than-those-before monkey's fist last night. Will have to see if I can get pic of it in action soon I think you're just trying to prove you have the biggest set of, uh, knots around here. 
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billcoe_
Nov 24, 2009, 4:46 PM
Post #98 of 124
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evanwish wrote: why not just use a regular sling that's more versatile? I'm pretty sure this is the "rabbit runner," but you'd have to have that pre-set up for the route... and racking?
Not quite Evan, in that it's sewn into this config, whereas a Rabbit runner is not, and this is essentially sewn supertape. The huge advantage is being able to grab it and wrap a knob quickly with one hand. Then once its snug, because there is some tightness at the loop there, it stays snug an where you placed it. As far as racking them, on this climb, I just stuffed them into a Fish Beef Bag which was clipped onto my gear loop. I'm telling you, it's the total shizz!
Here's a bro placement same climb I wouldn't have wanted to trust my dog tied up to. I looped the horn right in front of my face with a full length runner within a few seconds of this pic being taken.
You can see that spot better in this overview pic we took next trip up there- right where the sub pinnacle runs out there. There's my rap sling on top of the Old Witches hair bun. PS, good piece? LOL!
My dreams had me placing 3 perfect big bros up that gap. In reality, I got one shit bro in. The other boat anchors as seen in this pic were ditched on the nearest knob and left. Same climb same day, the pics look different.
edited to add:
Damn glad to see the knobs to hitch up higher with my Fish magic tie offs right there. Of the 20 some plus first ascents I did this year, this was the most memorable and it is the only one I still shake a tad in fear when I remember it. It is quite the feeling to do a ground up free climb, solo, with natural gear on a uber remote pinnacle which few have ever seen and which has never been summited, especially as you do not know if it can be done without killing yourself. There is no cell service from any carrier and a mistake, error or just a random knob popping off at the wrong time on ya would be problematic if not deadly for sure.
(This post was edited by billcoe_ on Nov 24, 2009, 4:56 PM)
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evanwish
Nov 25, 2009, 1:47 AM
Post #99 of 124
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billcoe_ wrote: evanwish wrote: why not just use a regular sling that's more versatile? I'm pretty sure this is the "rabbit runner," but you'd have to have that pre-set up for the route... and racking? Not quite Evan, in that it's sewn into this config, whereas a Rabbit runner is not, and this is essentially sewn supertape. The huge advantage is being able to grab it and wrap a knob quickly with one hand. Then once its snug, because there is some tightness at the loop there, it stays snug an where you placed it. As far as racking them, on this climb, I just stuffed them into a Fish Beef Bag which was clipped onto my gear loop. I'm telling you, it's the total shizz! Here's a bro placement same climb I wouldn't have wanted to trust my dog tied up to. I looped the horn right in front of my face with a full length runner within a few seconds of this pic being taken. [image]http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/resised_Top_of_the_side_pinnacle_2.jpg[/image] You can see that spot better in this overview pic we took next trip up there- right where the sub pinnacle runs out there. There's my rap sling on top of the Old Witches hair bun. PS, good piece? LOL! [image]http://cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/medium/Resized_at_the_Old_Witch_Anchors.jpg[/image] My dreams had me placing 3 perfect big bros up that gap. In reality, I got one shit bro in. The other boat anchors as seen in this pic were ditched on the nearest knob and left. Same climb same day, the pics look different. [image]http://cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/medium/The_witch_speaks.jpg[/image] edited to add: Damn glad to see the knobs to hitch up higher with my Fish magic tie offs right there. Of the 20 some plus first ascents I did this year, this was the most memorable and it is the only one I still shake a tad in fear when I remember it. It is quite the feeling to do a ground up free climb, solo, with natural gear on a uber remote pinnacle which few have ever seen and which has never been summited, especially as you do not know if it can be done without killing yourself. There is no cell service from any carrier and a mistake, error or just a random knob popping off at the wrong time on ya would be problematic if not deadly for sure.
wow thats a good point. so just tossing it in a bag would eliminate it getting caught in cams etc... i like that!
and plus i see you figured out my fetish... (wide fetish)
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kobaz
Nov 25, 2009, 10:27 PM
Post #100 of 124
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Oh man...
(This post was edited by kobaz on Nov 25, 2009, 10:32 PM)
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