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jakedatc
Jun 22, 2010, 7:26 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: You think Tommy caldwell would be even a 10th as cool as he is if he was just one of the best sport climbers in the world? Hell no! He is 1,000 times cooler than a David Grahm because he is one of the best CLIMBERS in the world.
Why is tommy so cool again? because he goes and free's a few aid routes? DG helped put so many areas on the map through development of routes there. Tommys bouldering is well behind the elite boulderers and his sport climbing is behind most pro climbers so he has a very small niche of stuff he excels at. His development of new areas is practically non existant.
Next time you're at rumney or Pway go take a look at some of dave's FAs and see how uncool they are. You can't even fathom how to get off the ground let alone find, clean and FA them.
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karmiclimber
Jun 22, 2010, 7:30 PM
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jakedatc wrote: tradmanclimbs wrote: You think Tommy caldwell would be even a 10th as cool as he is if he was just one of the best sport climbers in the world? Hell no! He is 1,000 times cooler than a David Grahm because he is one of the best CLIMBERS in the world. because he goes and free's a few aid routes? DG helped put so many areas on the map through development of routes there. Tommys bouldering is well behind the elite boulderers and his sport climbing is behind most pro climbers so he has a very small niche of stuff he excels at. His development of new areas is practically non existant. Next time you're at rumney or Pway go take a look at some of dave's FAs and see how uncool they are. You can't even fathom how to get off the ground let alone find, clean and FA them.
Um, I don't think he is.
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rangerrob
Jun 22, 2010, 7:35 PM
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I'd pick caldwell over Graham anyday to be on the list of best climbers. Not that either of them are in the top 5
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welle
Jun 22, 2010, 7:36 PM
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If Tommy stopped hiking up and down the valley and lost his muscle mass from his legs, I'm sure he'd up his sport and bouldering ante. It's funny how sport climbers are pre-occupied with keeping their legs lean. I was recently reading a training article and it went as far as saying that running is not good for climbers as it bulks up the legs. But if I want to do any long routes or alpine climbs, I need to get those leg muscles strong!
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jakedatc
Jun 22, 2010, 7:41 PM
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welle wrote: If Tommy stopped hiking up and down the valley and lost his muscle mass from his legs, I'm sure he'd up his sport and bouldering ante. It's funny how sport climbers are pre-occupied with keeping their legs lean. I was recently reading a training article and it went as far as saying that running is not good for climbers as it bulks up the legs. But if I want to do any long routes or alpine climbs, I need to get those leg muscles strong!
tommy has never been in the top of the sport climbing or bouldering world before or after his finger accident. it has nothing to do with his legs.
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welle
Jun 22, 2010, 7:47 PM
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^^when I said legs, I didn't mean his finger accident. I just think trad climbers have stronger legs compared to their upper body strength as opposed to sport climbers. You can't hang on much on your one arm while placing gear... I don't know much about Tommy, but I suspect he'd found his strength in balance moves way before he moved to trad climbing therefore he naturally found himself progressing into traditional climbing and freeing hard balancey face moves...
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jakedatc
Jun 22, 2010, 7:53 PM
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rangerrob wrote: I'd pick caldwell over Graham anyday to be on the list of best climbers. Not that either of them are in the top 5
"best" climber means nothing. The top guys specialize to be the best so trying to compare across is stupid and useless
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jakedatc
Jun 22, 2010, 7:57 PM
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welle wrote: ^^when I said legs, I didn't mean his finger accident. I just think trad climbers have stronger legs compared to their upper body strength as opposed to sport climbers. You can't hang on much on your one arm while placing gear... I don't know much about Tommy, but I suspect he'd found his strength in balance moves way before he moved to trad climbing therefore he naturally found himself progressing into traditional climbing and freeing hard balancey face moves...
i know what you meant, and i still don't think it has anything to do with anything. Sharma weights way more than DG and climbs harder. Alex honnold is a scrawney tall bastard who does all kinds of scary techy face, grit, granite routes
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 22, 2010, 8:37 PM
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let me put it to you real simple. If you live in Colorado and climb 5.13 at rifle yet have never been up the Diamond or in to the black caynon or down to the desert you are basicly wasteing your talent and esentually wanking off on little rocks. kind of like a porn star that never actually does it with a real woman.
Same thing goes in the north east.
if you climb 5.13 in rumny yet have never done the prow on cathedral, Direct Direct and Duet direct on cannon. etc. same deal. complete waste of talent.
Heck I know some pretty solid sport climbers who can't even get up the eaglet which is a real darn cool formation. closest thing we have in the north east to a desert tower.
I may only be able to get up one climb at wiamea but I have been up a whole crapload of real cool stuff that most folks who call themselfs Sport climbers simply can not do. It is not because of lack of talent or strength it is simply ignorance. Too cheap to invest in a rack and think that Trad is for old fat bald guys. Give these guys a rack and a few days of gear lessons and they would be climbing all kinds off reall cool shit. Every now and then I convert one and its awsome to see how much fun they have and how fast they progress.
yea, tommy is about 1,000 times cooler than Dave
Free your mind and experience a climb longer than 30m its actually pretty darn fun.
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 22, 2010, 8:45 PM
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Ask any honest woman and she will tell you. Size Does Matter
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jt512
Jun 22, 2010, 8:53 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: let me put it to you real simple. If you live in Colorado and climb 5.13 at rifle yet have never been up the Diamond or in to the black caynon or down to the desert you are basicly wasteing your talent...
What a ridiculous statement.
Jay
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jakedatc
Jun 22, 2010, 9:20 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: let me put it to you real simple. If you live in Colorado and climb 5.13 at rifle yet have never been up the Diamond or in to the black caynon or down to the desert you are basicly wasteing your talent and esentually wanking off on little rocks. kind of like a porn star that never actually does it with a real woman. Same thing goes in the north east. if you climb 5.13 in rumny yet have never done the prow on cathedral, Direct Direct and Duet direct on cannon. etc. same deal. complete waste of talent. Heck I know some pretty solid sport climbers who can't even get up the eaglet which is a real darn cool formation. closest thing we have in the north east to a desert tower. I may only be able to get up one climb at wiamea but I have been up a whole crapload of real cool stuff that most folks who call themselfs Sport climbers simply can not do. It is not because of lack of talent or strength it is simply ignorance. Too cheap to invest in a rack and think that Trad is for old fat bald guys. Give these guys a rack and a few days of gear lessons and they would be climbing all kinds off reall cool shit. Every now and then I convert one and its awsome to see how much fun they have and how fast they progress. yea, tommy is about 1,000 times cooler than Dave Free your mind and experience a climb longer than 30m its actually pretty darn fun.
I'd rather climb 30m rumney routes than the greasy shit you call Cathedral. I also have no interest in Cannon's exfoliating choss heap.
Calling people too cheap to buy a rack in this economy is pretty ignorant and downright disrespectful.
I go to the gunks if i want to do trad. They have the type of climb that i find aesthetic. I have a feeling my sport climbing ass will climb circles around you there since it is not mindless handjam plugging the whole way. It is a shorter drive and it has less bolt war douche bags with elitist prick attitudes.
In reply to: yea, tommy is about 1,000 times cooler than Dave
apparently he's single now so you can go cradle his balls all you want.
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 22, 2010, 9:42 PM
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I am certain that you can kick my ass but you can not seem to grasp my point. If you have climbed trad in the past then decided to focus on sport that is fine. its your choice but at least you have aparently been to the gunks and canon. The folks that i am talking about never had that opertunity to climb any of the bigger formations. they seem to look at trad as too expensive and not cool enough or whatever so they never get to experience what its like to be on a really big cliff or on top of a tower.
Screw it , if you want to drive all the way to Vegas and wank arround the quarry or charleston that is your deal. variety is the spice of life. I prefer to do long climbs in black velvet and then drive up to st george for a bit of sport climbiung and then on to Zion for an eye opener. it's all good. You may be a better climber but i can garuntee you that i have more variety and more fun bumbleing my way through and not worrying about what I eat or weather i am clipping bolts, pounding pins, drilling bolts, swinging ice axes or free soloing.. its all good.
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jakedatc
Jun 22, 2010, 10:09 PM
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Lets see, i've sport climbed on Shist, sandstone, Gniess and Limestone. In 3 states and Ontario seems like variety to me. I've climbed routes that were 2 bolts and routes that were 16 bolts long. I've climbed routes that were head down ass out slab and routes that are almost completely horizontal roofs. I've had to rap down to ledges and hanging belays overlooking Lake Huron.
you should perhaps sport climb more places if you think you cannot find a great experience clipping bolts. perhaps you have your own blinders on. Bigger isn't always better. I prefer to pull harder than to go higher. I can see why you would prefer the opposite since you can't do the other.
news flash. Trad is expensive. I know because i have a small rack of singles from green alien to #3 c4, 1 set nuts, 3 tricams, and a few hexes and it's quite a lot invested. 2 cams cost more than a whole set of draws.
also not sure why you're throwing around all these places out west when we both live in the NE... never been to these places and probably won't
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I_do
Jun 23, 2010, 10:18 AM
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angry wrote: Nike, Air Jordon, Miley Cyrus, Prana great prices click here. Love me, touch me, console my asshole, www.dickeaterfrenzy.ca marky mark Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.
Dude your link leads nowhere, way to disappoint people...
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angry
Jun 23, 2010, 11:35 AM
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I_do wrote: angry wrote: Nike, Air Jordon, Miley Cyrus, Prana great prices click here. Love me, touch me, console my asshole, www.dickeaterfrenzy.ca marky mark Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. Dude your link leads nowhere, way to disappoint people...
Like this thread?
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rangerrob
Jun 23, 2010, 2:39 PM
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Jake you climb at Rumney and you call Cathedral and Cannon choss heaps? Your post was probably the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read on this website, and that's saying a lot! Cathedral and Cannon have spawned some of the best climbers that America has ever produced. People who have gone on to revolutionize the game. We're talking Barber, Webster, Bragg, Bouchard, House..the list goes on and on. I'm guessing you like the Gunks because of the approach more than anything else. Tell me about a 5.7 in the Gunks that even comes close to the Whitney Gilman Ridge. Or a single pitch of 5.8 that can beat Reppy Crack. How about a 5.9 that can rival Vertigo. You have no idera what you are talking about my friend.
All that being said...you should probably stay at your little schist heap called Rumney. Stay on the carraige way in the Gunks. You may get hurt if you go off trail. and explore. Don't ever go to Millbrook, that's a total choss heap by your standards. You might faint when you realize there isn't a single bolt on that cliff. There's just a whole lot of balls hard out there climbing.
RR
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jakedatc
Jun 23, 2010, 3:05 PM
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Actually rob i like the gunks because it's overhanging and not slabby greasefest like cathedral. I've never been on cannon and it has zero appeal to me at ALL. I could care less about close or far approaches. I'm not some fat ass trad tard who needs to worry about getting tired while walking.
I haven't been on it yet but all accounts say CCK is amazing.. and looks ever bit of it. and even doesn't have microwaves falling off it!
5.8? Bonnies Roof... Modern Times, Double Crack
5.9 Directissima, MF(ive heard),
how about getting out of the warm ups and doing some hard sport.. Social outcast, Technosurfing, Orangahang... oh wait.. you can't pull that hard sorry, you'll just have to trust me.
yea.. rumney has shitty climbers. Ward smith, Dave quinn, chris smith, Mark sprague, Dave graham, Vasya V, Jay Conway (*gasp* he also climbs 13+ at your cathedral too)
Gunks? maybe you've heard of our own Rgold, Weissner, Lynn hill, russ clune. etc
Cornflake elitist pricks can't place a bolt or chop a bolt without having an all out war i'd rather stay away from douchebags like that. I'll stick to places where folks agree on what is best for the climbers and cliff and do it well.
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welle
Jun 23, 2010, 3:26 PM
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How can you compare CCK to W-G? CCK's flake is just not long enough! You like Gunks because it's mostly sport climbing on gear and crappy pins - huge jugs, big roofs, pumpy overhanging routes. Next time you come down you should try some face climbs, say Classic or Hyjek's Horror - you'll be begging to get back on the Cathedral/Whitehorse granite. Ask RangerRob for more face climb recommendations 
(This post was edited by welle on Jun 23, 2010, 3:29 PM)
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angry
Jun 23, 2010, 3:49 PM
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I wonder if Jake could send your projects? And if you guys could send his. Who would put less effort into it? I'm guessing he'd figure out your easy trad in days and you guys may never climb upper 12 sport.
Seems to me you guys are bragging about climbing at a level that was considered easy 30 years ago.
That said, to live in co and not climb on the diamond, black, or desert is a total waste. Rifle is a forgettable chose heap that just happens to be pumpy. And Tommy Caldwell will go down as one of the greatest climbers of his generation.
(This post was edited by angry on Jun 23, 2010, 3:52 PM)
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jakedatc
Jun 23, 2010, 4:47 PM
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welle wrote: How can you compare CCK to W-G? CCK's flake is just not long enough! You like Gunks because it's mostly sport climbing on gear and crappy pins - huge jugs, big roofs, pumpy overhanging routes. Next time you come down you should try some face climbs, say Classic or Hyjek's Horror - you'll be begging to get back on the Cathedral/Whitehorse granite. Ask RangerRob for more face climb recommendations
You guys would climb a staircase if it was long enough and call it a 3 star classic.
I did Jackie with a mistake that led to some unprotected part of Jasmine sunday.. similar to classic. did oscar and Charlie Pitch 1.. if you haven't done that you should give it a go.. for 5.7 you have to do some techy moves. I onsighted Laurel with ease.. you guys probably freak out right off the ground cuz you have to do a hard move. I followed a friend up Keep on Struttin' there's some techy shit for you.
You want some spray? 1 hung onsight attempt of Ro shampo 12a, Onsighted Aquaduck pocket 11b, Relaxed atmosphere 11c, Third world lover 11c/d, Burning bush 11a (HA clicker!), Gullivers travels 11b, Curl up and Fly 12a in a few days of tries, Orangahang 12b <10 burns.
If you don't think i can do small crimpy shit you are sadly mistaken. I've bouldered V6-7.
If you want to trade project for project like Angry says.. bring it. 5.7 for 1000 feet.. sure. Try to get off the ground on what i'm working and maybe we'll talk
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shoo
Jun 23, 2010, 5:28 PM
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Y'all do realize that there are people who are able to and enjoy climbing both hard Cathedral style trad and hard Rumney sport, right?
[spray]I climb pretty much identically as hard as you sport (maybe a touch worse, but pretty damn close) and also love me some hard jammin' and pluggin' action.[/spray]
Does that give me the right to tell y'all to shut yer traps?
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jakedatc
Jun 23, 2010, 5:35 PM
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shoo wrote: Y'all do realize that there are people who are able to and enjoy climbing both hard Cathedral style trad and hard Rumney sport, right? [spray]I climb pretty much identically as hard as you sport (maybe a touch worse, but pretty damn close) and also love me some hard jammin' and pluggin' action.[/spray] Does that give me the right to tell y'all to shut yer traps?
You got a pic of Rock wars as your avatar.. that is good enough for me. I also like climbing trad.. albeit at the gunks rather than NH. I just laugh at trad folks who spray about how tall their routes are like it actually means something... but it is all they got so i guess they have to hold onto it.
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welle
Jun 23, 2010, 5:43 PM
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Jake, I wasn't dissing on you, Rumney or sport climbers. I was just defending some really amazing granite you guys have up there in NH, and by no means I was spraying. I've only been to N. Conway once and was amazed how sticky the rock on the popular climbs that you guys call "polished". I was also impressed by the effort local climbers put into keeping traditional climbing in its purest form, some times to the degree of absurdity. Those chopped, re-chopped bolts and epoxied hole marks rather look ugly. If Rumney was a bit closer to where I live, I'd probably spend more time there, but right now if I'm traveling that far I'd rather climb something tall, exposed, where i have to solve some route-finding problems and scare myself shitless on sketchy off-widths.
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