Basically, I was trying to reinterpret rockdr's statement such that is was less offensive and fit with a reality I had experience with (although I now wish I hadn't).

I didn't say the Chinese-made cams would be lower quality, if anything I was saying that the consistency could become suspect, because of potentially different standards for quality control. Climbing gear has such specific standards that I see far less room for differing standards to come into play.

Well, BD seems to be doing a good job, and the most notorious SLCD quality-control disaster in the last decade involved a product that was "Made in the U.S.A."

I have a friend who is a metallurgist for a very large OE auto parts supplier (you'd know the company). He went to China to investigate a failure problem. This plant is totally controlled by them and is certified every way imaginable. Suffice to say what he found was shocking. He said it made their Latin American plants look like world beaters in comparison. Things that would NEVER fly in a US factory. I have heard too many of these stories from too many people to trust life saving gear made in China. Anyone want to bet where the Kong rings that failed were made? My toaster or fish aquarium sure, but gear I depend on for my life, no gracias.

PS nothing "racist" about pointing out facts, grow up. It's a fact China has huge quality and intellectual property issues. That doesn't condemn the poor guy working in the factory, it's just a fact of their evolution as a manufacturing economy.

I have a friend who is a metallurgist for a very large OE auto parts supplier (you'd know the company). He went to China to investigate a failure problem. This plant is totally controlled by them and is certified every way imaginable. Suffice to say what he found was shocking. He said it made their Latin American plants look like world beaters in comparison. Things that would NEVER fly in a US factory. I have heard too many of these stories from too many people to trust life saving gear made in China. Anyone want to bet where the Kong rings that failed were made? My toaster or fish aquarium sure, but gear I depend on for my life, no gracias.

PS nothing "racist" about pointing out facts, grow up. It's a fact China has huge quality and intellectual property issues. That doesn't condemn the poor guy working in the factory, it's just a fact of their evolution as a manufacturing economy.

“Thirdly, understand that the supply chain of components and parts is the
same as it has been. The cams going onto the Camalots are made from
USA-produced 7000 series aluminum, that are machined on our CNCs overseen
by our engineers; the anodizing is done by Easton Aluminum here in SLC
and then they are shipped to our Asian facility. Cable, springs, and
other parts still come from here or from the same suppliers that we were
using when we were assembling them here. The supply chain is not
changed.”

I don't know if it's intentional or not, but your posts have been coming off as pretty incendiary due to the racist over-tones.

Reading comprehension fail. Perhaps BD's facility is top notch, I don't know and I didn't condemn them specifically because I don't have firsthand knowledge of the operation. But I do know a couple things

Goods made in China have been rife with quality issues and...

Companies move there to save money, not to improve quality. Given the price of camalots I'd say they didn't pass the savings along. That perhaps tells me something about their priorities. MHO. You don't have to agree.

im sure that may be the case, but i also suspect there's a volume issue that you may not be considering. how many camalots do you think BD makes in a year? id bet its in the tens of thousands- 20, maybe 30? that means BD is making somewhere around 100 camalots a day.

all the issues you seem to hear about stuff produced in china comes from plants that are pumping out goods as fast as they can- which isnt the case for BD- in fact, if other climbing companies facilities are any indication, i suspect the BD China plant is TINY with only a handful of employees.

im not saying the BD China facility is perfect, but i suspect its much closer to US standard than you seem to think.

I'm more upset about BD being publicly traded than production in China (which appears to be limited to the CNC machining and assembly).

Completely agree. I feel sad because of it.

In the past I have disliked BD mostly because of the TopDog aura around it. But I own and love my Camalots. One of the best things about BD is its excellent communication with the climbing public. I love their blog posts.

I fear what is going to happen to BD.

TNF and MH are not owned by the same company and neither makes technical hardgoods. BD just got sold last summer because they were out of money. In cases like this, quality and brand mojo usually stay good for 2-3 years. Then the penny-pinchers start weaseling, combined with laxity on QC in china, and nasty things start to happen. BD currently has great marketing, some okay products, and a lot of mediocre products. Innovation left the company a while ago but they are great at borrowing ideas and making people think they created something. In a few years, BD will be a mere shadow of itself selling lots of high-magin items (clothing), hanging onto existing designs that sell well, cutting all the niche products, and pretending to still have decent quality on what they offer.

TNF and MH are not owned by the same company and neither makes technical hardgoods. BD just got sold last summer because they were out of money. In cases like this, quality and brand mojo usually stay good for 2-3 years. Then the penny-pinchers start weaseling, combined with laxity on QC in china, and nasty things start to happen. BD currently has great marketing, some okay products, and a lot of mediocre products. Innovation left the company a while ago but they are great at borrowing ideas and making people think they created something. In a few years, BD will be a mere shadow of itself selling lots of high-magin items (clothing), hanging onto existing designs that sell well, cutting all the niche products, and pretending to still have decent quality on what they offer.

China has proven not to be able to build safe childrens toys.
Do you want to trust china to build your lifesaving climbing pro?

TNF and MH are not owned by the same company and neither makes technical hardgoods. BD just got sold last summer because they were out of money. In cases like this, quality and brand mojo usually stay good for 2-3 years. Then the penny-pinchers start weaseling, combined with laxity on QC in china, and nasty things start to happen. BD currently has great marketing, some okay products, and a lot of mediocre products. Innovation left the company a while ago but they are great at borrowing ideas and making people think they created something. In a few years, BD will be a mere shadow of itself selling lots of high-magin items (clothing), hanging onto existing designs that sell well, cutting all the niche products, and pretending to still have decent quality on what they offer.

Google "VF corporation"

And unless TNF sold MH (possible as I don't pay all that much attention) MH has been part of TNF since 04.

That was a false rumor. Columbia bought MH in 03, not TNF or VF

How does volume play a part in it? It doesn't increase the labour cost per piece made so its not really relevant. Its not as though the US has a labour shortage.

The fact is that they moved to China for cost reasons. Consumers demand cheap gear so its good for consumers too. Unless of course quality drops then its very BAD.

To their credit China produces lots of high quality devices, just look at the build quality of many electronics these days. However personally I would prefer to pay 20% more for goods made in a country that I trust. DMM and Petzl for most of my stuff. Though I'll be keeping my BD Cams for the time being...

Am I the only one who thinks it's ironically fitting that The North Face is a subsidiary of Vanity Fair?

As long as you don't feel embarrassed wearing the same brand as an overweight 20 year old freshman whose jacket came from Walmart or Costco you'll be fine.