I don't see the strength rating on PMI 9/16 webbing http://shop.pmirope.com/...index.aspx?pageID=25, but the Bluewater 9/16 Climb spec rates to 2200 ft lbs brand new. http://www.mountaingear.com/...G/item/614001/N/1049. Assuming that the CMC Rope Rescue Manual which claims a 36% strength reduction for a water knot in webbing is accurate, you have a strength of 1408lbs when your tied webbing is brand new and dry. . . .

Maybe Jay can check my math up there.

That might work if you tied the knot right before starting up the climb and you took no falls on the previous pitches. Not something I would count on...

I am far from being an idiot.

Hahhahaha. Why do I feel like I have to read this in a pompous British voice?

Quoted for Jay's enjoyment.

Believe it or not, when it comes to buying equipment that your life depends on, there are actually factors to consider besides price.

Jay

That is certainly true.

But in this context mass produced slings like the Mammut Contact or quickdraw dogbones are usually less bulky, lighter and stronger so therefore the only major points in favour of hand tieing your own slings for your quick draws is that on average they will be cheaper and slightly more durable due to the added bulk.

Unless of course someone gets a kick out of making their own gear, which is fair enough.

Thanks.

"Far from being an idiot" in which direction, I wonder.

That is certainly true.

But in this context mass produced slings like the Mammut Contact or quickdraw dogbones are usually less bulky, lighter and stronger so therefore the only major points in favour of hand tieing your own slings for your quick draws is that on average they will be cheaper and slightly more durable due to the added bulk.

Unless of course someone gets a kick out of making their own gear, which is fair enough.

To clarify, in my comment above I was not criticizing tied slings, but cheap, bottom-of-the-line biners; in particular, because of their 7-kN open-gate strength.

Jay

I am far from being an idiot.

I’m pretty sure the good people at Black Diamond and Omega Pacific aren’t out to kill me, even though they sold me biners with a 7 or kN open gate. I’m pretty sure most of us have and use Black Diamond biners with 7 kN open gate strength. You know, your “cheap, bottom-of-the-line biners”. And I’m pretty sure we’ve climbed using them and are alive and well on account of their strength and reliability.

I have a list of all my climbing gear. The list includes the date of purchase as well as all the specs.

Since the subject was HOMEMADE QUICKDRAWS, I thought I could make a positive contribution…the good deal I found on biners/dogbones and throw in a couple of discount quick draws I found on EMS. I’m under the impression that an actual quickdraw is better than making one out of a knotted sling/webbing/cord or whatever. Do you and I’ll do me…and if you like how I did it, I’m glad to have helped.

But then the clouds got dark, the thunder roared, and all the little scared animals in the forest ran for cover…here comes Captain I Know Better Than You. The frickin’ Osama of rockclimbing.com looking to crash a plane into forum.

Anyway…

Up until purchasing the Omega biners, I only had BD biners. All my Black Diamond biners have an open gate around 7-8 kN…locking, wire, and bent gates. The average price is around $10 per biner. The Omega biner was originally $10.35, on sale for $3.99. Key word- “on sale”. I don’t know about you guys but I go shopping during sales, clip coupons, and pay for my gas with cash instead of debit to save the extra .10 a gallon.

I’m pretty sure the good people at Black Diamond and Omega Pacific aren’t out to kill me, even though they sold me biners with a 7 or kN open gate. I’m pretty sure most of us have and use Black Diamond biners with 7 kN open gate strength. You know, your “cheap, bottom-of-the-line biners”. And I’m pretty sure we’ve climbed using them and are alive and well on account of their strength and reliability.

Enjoy, climb safe…have a nice day. Be excellent to each other.

While we’re at it…who here is driving a Volvo XC60? I mean, driving is WAY more dangerous than climbing. You guys got the roll cage and helmet in that bad boy? It’s tit-for-tat all day with what is safe, safer, safest- functioning, functional, feng shui. A biner with a 7 kN open gate is like climbing with a paper clip? BD and Omega are actually out to kill you???

Looking at the fall force calculator on http://www.myoan.net/climbart/climbforcecal.html me falling 20 feet from last anchor would generate a little over 4 kN, Fall Factor 1.10. That’s still under 7 kN. And, that’s falling with the gate open. You got another calculator, put up the link and I’m more than happy to recalculate the numbers. And by the way…I have NO interest in climbing 20 feet over an anchor, thank you very much. So, how we doing? Am I okay? Did I still get the wrong one?

Yes, that’s real and true…gates can open, and falls can generate several kNs. I am in complete agreement with you. And, I am in complete agreement that I am responsible for my own safety. At the end of the day, I'm trying to go home in one peice.

Well first of all you are using an force calculator that is completely wrong. See this thread on the discussion http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ew+Flat+Mode#2324969 It is actually fairly easy to generate forces in excess of 7kn. If you instead use JT's force calculator(i know, heresy) http://jt512.dyndns.org/impactcalc.html a factor 1 fall with only a 160lb climber and a 9.1kn impact force(mammut infinity) you generate over 11kn on the top piece.

Wrong calculator? Ok, my mistake.

11 kN you say? is there a biner with an open-gate strenght of 11 kN?

That was for your factor 1 fall. No open gate biner is going to survive a factor 1 fall most likely. A factor 0.4 fall generates ~7-8kn and is a much more common fall. In that case a 7kn will likely fail if open. It is up to you if that is acceptable. In sport climbing I prefer to not have to worry about small falls and worry about my gear. 8-10kn open gate strength biners mitigate this risk somewhat. My only point is that it is a very real possibility that biners fail in common climbing scenarios. If you want to bury your head in the sand that is your prerogative.

I'm listening, and you're making sense...really, and it's appreciated.

For now, at my current level of climbing, I think I'm well protected. In the future, I can see why I would need stronger biners on my draws.

Do you generate harder falls when you climb harder?

climbing 20 feet above my last anchor, putting myself in high fall factor situations, etc.

I climb for fun. Putting myself in those situations isn't fun. I'm not at the point where I need to be climbing like that.