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deadlymarmot
Jun 13, 2011, 2:27 AM
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I'm a newb climber and my hands are very important to my livelihood. I'm currently working my way through college as a software developer and will soon be entering medical school with an eye on surgery. I need to keep my hands in decent working condition.
The more I read about preventing hand & finger injury the more common these injuries seem. How often are they sever enough to inhibit typing abilities? Should I expect a loss of sensitivity & dexterity from rock climbing?
I did a search. There was a very similar thread from 2006, but it was more concerned with dexterity immedietly after climbing. I'm more concerned with longterm results after years and years of climbing.
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caughtinside
Jun 13, 2011, 2:39 AM
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I've been climbing for 10 years and my fingers barely work. I am posting this using VRS.
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lena_chita
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Jun 13, 2011, 2:43 AM
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Typing ability -- I wouldn't worry too much. Surgery-- maybe.
I have a friend who is a really good climber and a neurosurgery resident. She has been climbing for many years, in college and through medical school, and so far seems to be able to combine the two activities as much as her busy schedule permits.
But there are no guarantees in life. No one will be able to give you a guarantee that a significant finger injury won't happen to you. If you are concerned about it -- don't climb, or climb very carefully and hope for the best. Of course, you could get your finger messed up playing beach volleyball, or falling off your bike, too -- so don't do that, either.
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deadlymarmot
Jun 13, 2011, 4:07 AM
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Cool. I'm okay with "may happen". I just want to avoid any "probably will happen". Climbing seems fairly safe. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into.
Thanks for your help. 
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TarHeelEMT
Jun 13, 2011, 5:32 AM
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deadlymarmot wrote: I'm a newb climber and my hands are very important to my livelihood. I'm currently working my way through college as a software developer and will soon be entering medical school with an eye on surgery. I need to keep my hands in decent working condition. The more I read about preventing hand & finger injury the more common these injuries seem. How often are they sever enough to inhibit typing abilities? Should I expect a loss of sensitivity & dexterity from rock climbing? I did a search. There was a very similar thread from 2006, but it was more concerned with dexterity immedietly after climbing. I'm more concerned with longterm results after years and years of climbing.
I don't plan to match into surgery, but I will be going into a heavily procedural field. I wouldn't worry. Climbing hasn't manked up my hands other than some scars on the back.
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jt512
Jun 13, 2011, 6:11 AM
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The most common climbing injury to the fingers is a partial tear of a tendon pulley in the middle or ring finger. These injuries are nearly ubiquitous among climbers. I can imagine that if you were doing a type of surgery requiring fine dexterity, that such an injury could interfere, but these injuries generally heal well within a couple of months, so I don't think that one would be career threatening.
Additionally, I have noticed a decrease in sensitivity in the tips of my fingers from climbing due to (I think) build up of calluses. I can imagine that this could be a problem for really delicate surgery, but calluses go away after a few weeks to months off of climbing, so again, I don't see a career threat here; more like the opposite: becoming a neurosurgeon might be an existential threat to a climbing career.
Jay
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spikeddem
Jun 13, 2011, 6:23 AM
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jt512 wrote: more like the opposite: becoming a neurosurgeon might be an existential threat to a climbing career. Jay
OTOH, ignoring any potential student loans, one could work for a year as a neurosurgeon and then take the next 10 years off for climbing.
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deadlymarmot
Jun 13, 2011, 7:40 AM
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It's good to know most of the more common stuff isn't a potential career ender.
spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: more like the opposite: becoming a neurosurgeon might be an existential threat to a climbing career. Jay OTOH, ignoring any potential student loans, one could work for a year as a neurosurgeon and then take the next 10 years off for climbing.
Maybe, but to work that one year you have a seven year residency. That doesn't include the four years of med school and four years of undergraduate. At some places that doesn't even include the surgical internship year.
If I get heavily into climbing I think I'll look into emergency medicine. Large paychecks and large amounts of time off. Plus a wilderness medicine fellowship might be useful to a rock climber.
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epoch
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Jun 13, 2011, 3:03 PM
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I sometimes dive into the realm of micro and miniature soldering. Regardless of whether or not I am a climber, and the explicit use of my hands, this does not affect my ability to hold and use the tools necessary to do precision soldering on a micro level. Like JT512 said, you may lose some sensitivity; however, unless you need to feel a hair follicle-sized object while wearing surgical gloves this shouldn't be an issue.
For now, I wouldn't think too much of it and just do what feels right. I wouldn't expect someone's profession keeping them from climbing.
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jacques
Jun 13, 2011, 4:04 PM
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deadlymarmot wrote: I'm a newb climber and my hands are very important to my livelihood. I'm currently working my way through college as a software developer and will soon be entering medical school with an eye on surgery. I need to keep my hands in decent working condition..
Acually, the use of the hand in multi direction and strenght is good for all the foreharm. Concentration to operate some one will be good too.
In insurance side, most company will not insure your hand if you are doing rock or ice climbing. As in all sport, there is always some accident an some climber could have money to hill there hand wild they climb a 8 000 meter mountain. So, you are not going to have insurance.
if yo still want to climb, never climb over your limit. Hand injury, as most injury, is cause by a bad movement or over loading. You dont want to fall and you put more strenght on your finger. In that way, it could be better to do sport climbing as, with bolt, you can fall more easily as with a fifteen foot run out.
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Mariofercol
Jun 13, 2011, 6:01 PM
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I suffer of chronic pain in my hands, arms and neck. This is mostly cause by typing and using a mouse (I work as a programmer), but climbing and playing guitar have not helped. While working, I have to stop and stretch frequently and hand writing for a long period of time is painful.
However, the problems didn't start over night and I cannot say it has affect my dexterity per se. Also, as I stated before, the main cause was sitting in front of a desk working on a laptop, not climbing.
(This post was edited by Mariofercol on Jun 13, 2011, 6:02 PM)
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marc801
Jun 13, 2011, 6:06 PM
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deadlymarmot wrote: spikeddem wrote: OTOH, ignoring any potential student loans, one could work for a year as a neurosurgeon and then take the next 10 years off for climbing. Maybe, but to work that one year you have a seven year residency. That doesn't include the four years of med school and four years of undergraduate. At some places that doesn't even include the surgical internship year.
Nor does it include the $500K premium for malpractice insurance you'll need to practice for that year.
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gunkiemike
Jun 13, 2011, 8:09 PM
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deadlymarmot wrote: Maybe, but to work that one year you have a seven year residency. That doesn't include the four years of med school and four years of undergraduate. At some places that doesn't even include the surgical internship year.
I was thinking pretty much along the same lines - he won't have any time to be climbing, so hand injuries are not an issue.
To the OP - learn to enjoy moderate, classic trad routes. Stay away from repeated crimpy boulder problems and at-your-limit cruxes and I suspect your hands will be just fine.
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dagibbs
Jun 13, 2011, 9:22 PM
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gunkiemike wrote: deadlymarmot wrote: Maybe, but to work that one year you have a seven year residency. That doesn't include the four years of med school and four years of undergraduate. At some places that doesn't even include the surgical internship year. I was thinking pretty much along the same lines - he won't have any time to be climbing, so hand injuries are not an issue. To the OP - learn to enjoy moderate, classic trad routes. Stay away from repeated crimpy boulder problems and at-your-limit cruxes and I suspect your hands will be just fine.
+1
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jt512
Jun 14, 2011, 3:55 AM
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spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: more like the opposite: becoming a neurosurgeon might be an existential threat to a climbing career. Jay OTOH, ignoring any potential student loans, one could work for a year as a neurosurgeon and then take the next 10 years off for climbing.
Why would he have to ignore his student loans?
Jay
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enigma
Jun 14, 2011, 7:13 AM
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jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: more like the opposite: becoming a neurosurgeon might be an existential threat to a climbing career. Jay OTOH, ignoring any potential student loans, one could work for a year as a neurosurgeon and then take the next 10 years off for climbing. Why would he have to ignore his student loans? Jay
OTOH he might be extra special, with a free ride AWA, matching in neuro cause now its all Obama's game. Climb on!
(This post was edited by enigma on Jun 14, 2011, 7:54 AM)
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altelis
Jun 14, 2011, 1:54 PM
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enigma wrote: jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: more like the opposite: becoming a neurosurgeon might be an existential threat to a climbing career. Jay OTOH, ignoring any potential student loans, one could work for a year as a neurosurgeon and then take the next 10 years off for climbing. Why would he have to ignore his student loans? Jay OTOH he might be extra special, with a free ride AWA, matching in neuro cause now its all Obama's game. Climb on!
If you're lucky, when I'm done with my decades of free training thanks to Obama and his socialist/communist agenda, I just might be willing to cut you a deal and remove that foot that's apparently pretty well stuck in your mouth. Maybe. But most likely only if I match in a surgical specialty, like neuro- but I guess that's pretty likely since when government takes over our health care they seem to ignore cost-saving things like promoting primary care training and put all their money into training neurosurgeons.
As to the OP- I would say its not clear. I'm a med student (taking Step 1 in a week), and right now I'm looking at Ortho or CT surgery. I'm not especially worried about my hands, in terms of climbing, in those fields. I will say, that I do have an aquantaince who was a fairly high-level rock and alpine climber, guiding on Denali and doing other rescue work before starting med school. He's a vascular surgery resident, looking to specialize in microvascular work, and he's pretty much given up on climbing. In his mind, the risk to his career isn't worth it. You never know, I guess
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squierbypetzl
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Jun 15, 2011, 8:00 AM
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I'll chip in for the surgery since there's obviously something really interesting going on in her Broca's area.
I was a damn fine pianist in my teens (if I do say so myself), but developed chronic tendinitis in most of my fingers. I was bouldering hard almost daily, with little sleep and improper nourishment (oh college days...), so it shouldn't have come as such a surprise when I got flaring hot pains that would keep me up at night. First 1 finger, then 2, then 3... I still remember the two handed crimp "pull up" what done it...
Had a bitch of a time curing it, docs thought I might have lupus or some other autoinmune disease, but frankly it was just youthful overexuberance and an obsession with getting one of Schubert's impromptus down perfectly.
So, wrapping up, yes you can injure your fingers climbing. Given the large amount of paperwork you'll be doing, the few hours you'll be sleeping, the less than optimum nourishment you'll get, and the likeliness that you'll want to climb hard on the limited time you'll get to do so, you'll be a pretty good candidate for injury, but you'll probably be fine if you don't push yourself to the max. I say try it out with your new schedule and then see if it works for you.
That and don't do anything stupid like campusing a crimp on your 9th straight day climbing...
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enigma
Jun 15, 2011, 9:39 AM
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altelis wrote: enigma wrote: jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: more like the opposite: becoming a neurosurgeon might be an existential threat to a climbing career. Jay OTOH, ignoring any potential student loans, one could work for a year as a neurosurgeon and then take the next 10 years off for climbing. Why would he have to ignore his student loans? Jay OTOH he might be extra special, with a free ride AWA, matching in neuro cause now its all Obama's game. Climb on! If you're lucky, when I'm done with my decades of free training thanks to Obama and his socialist/communist agenda, I just might be willing to cut you a deal and remove that foot that's apparently pretty well stuck in your mouth. Maybe. But most likely only if I match in a surgical specialty, like neuro- but I guess that's pretty likely since when government takes over our health care they seem to ignore cost-saving things like promoting primary care training and put all their money into training neurosurgeons. As to the OP- I would say its not clear. I'm a med student (taking Step 1 in a week), and right now I'm looking at Ortho or CT surgery. I'm not especially worried about my hands, in terms of climbing, in those fields. I will say, that I do have an aquantaince who was a fairly high-level rock and alpine climber, guiding on Denali and doing other rescue work before starting med school. He's a vascular surgery resident, looking to specialize in microvascular work, and he's pretty much given up on climbing. In his mind, the risk to his career isn't worth it. You never know, I guess
"Have you seen the movie 9 and a half pounds?"
Sounds like you could get extra for your inflated brain!
Will Smith character seems to have quite a altruistic attitude in regards to medicine. Might be something for you to consider, seriously.
More people would be helped versus being a neuro-surgeon.
( Better option than a botched surgery on some poor soul).
Personally I wouldn't choose you as a doctor.
I'm sure you don't have the goods now or ever will to back it up!
Standards for medical school should be the same for all, especially when you consider the life or demise of another human being.
As well as those doctors who come from other countries ,and forget about helping their own people .
India Africa, Central America and many parts of the U.S and Mexico need doctors and surgeons.
However the financial incentive in the U.S is so high, that they forget about the people who desperately need medical attention.
back on topic; Op don't worry about your fingers. Climb as much now. Sounds like a good field would be a wilderness fellowship in medicine. Good Luck!
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altelis
Jun 15, 2011, 1:13 PM
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Lets see if I can make this as simple as possible:
In reply to: But most likely only if I match in a surgical specialty, like neuro- but I guess that's pretty likely since when government takes over our health care they seem to ignore cost-saving things like promoting primary care training and put all their money into training neurosurgeons.
Me = sarcastic
In reply to: Standards for medical school should be the same for all, especially when you consider the life or demise of another human being.
You = ignorant
In reply to: As well as those doctors who come from other countries ,and forget about helping their own people . India Africa, Central America and many parts of the U.S and Mexico need doctors and surgeons. However the financial incentive in the U.S is so high, that they forget about the people who desperately need medical attention.
You = ignorant, bigot.
In reply to: Will Smith character seems to have quite a altruistic attitude in regards to medicine. Might be something for you to consider, seriously. More people would be helped versus being a neuro-surgeon. In reply to: Sounds like a good field would be a wilderness fellowship in medicine
You = ignorant, hypocritical.
In reply to: Personally I wouldn't choose you as a doctor. I'm sure you don't have the goods now or ever will to back it up!
You = spot on. That one hit close to home, and it hurt. I have a massive chip on my shoulder, since I actually hate people, only want to make tons of money, and actually got in to med school since I'm an Inuit-black African from Mongolia. One of these days somebody is going to figure out I actually have an IQ of 25 and can never remember the black pieces of the stethoscope go in my ears not my nostrils. But whatever, at least I'm getting a free ride (thanks for that, taxpayers) and once I graduate I'm just going to be a plastic surgeon and give everybody massive boobies instead of going back to my own country and helping the poor stupid bastards there. They should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, damnit!
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Overall, I'd say that Squier's advice is probably the best. There is a lot of time and a lot of changes that will happen between now and choosing a speciality. I wouldn't worry about the climbing + speciality thing until you cross that bridge. In the mean time, climb. But be smart and don't do stupid things that will make you prone to injury- I would say this would be good advice regardless of your future professional goals, be they neurosurgeon or line cook. Avoiding injury, in my eyes, has the primary gain of allowing more climbing!
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enigma
Jun 16, 2011, 9:52 AM
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In reply to: Standards for medical school should be the same for all, especially when you consider the life or demise of another human being may be compromised.
Here's a very simple analogy ; Do you think a 5.7 leader can lead a 5.11 just because he is from Guyana?
India, Africa, Central America and many parts of the U.S and Mexico need doctors and surgeons. They deserve medical care from their own people. Don't you think?
Consider this the U.S economy is suffering!
U.S citizens , should have the opportunities to realize their dream as doctors and surgeons
Do you realize its housing market is dropping below the great depression its at 33% versus 31%,
U.S needs to focus on our country and citizens.
Our unemployment is over 9.1% !
Our U.S doctors and surgeons need jobs , U.S citizens deserve the best match based objectively, not substandard care.
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Considering countries like India, Africa, Central America , Syria,Mexico, Haiti are in desperate need of quality doctors and surgeons.)
The only reason these foreign physicians are practicing here is for monetary reasons,
Polio, smallpox measles, and malaria, lack of basic medical care, clean water, lack of healthy food are literally killing children in large numbers.
Don't they deserve help?
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My solution to you is to go to the Island, since at least there you will serve a purpose. (Scarlett Jo is waiting)
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OP- Met an eye doctor today , he said go for being an eye surgeon, unless you fall climbing he didn't see any deterrent.
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altelis
Jun 16, 2011, 10:16 AM
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Those were all logically sound and coherent, non contradictory, well thought out and strong arguments. Gee, I'm so embarrassed that I hadn't thought of that before.
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TarHeelEMT
Jun 16, 2011, 12:19 PM
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In reply to: Our U.S doctors and surgeons need jobs
Will give physical for food.
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