|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Jun 11, 2012, 12:50 PM
Post #76 of 89
(5642 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
guangzhou wrote: I don't know who raps more in one month , but I do know that accidents happen even when precautions are taken. I guess that's why they are called accidents. (I bet my AMGA membership started long before yours did, so let's avoid the "I'm an AMGA Blah Blah Blah." ) Rappeling with clients, or how a guide raps with a clients really depends on the clients, the location, and other factors. If I were guiding an experienced client at a place like the sea cliffs of Arcadia in Maine, I would most likely not tie knots in the end of my ropes and would most likely give the client a fireman belay. The Same Client and I coming off something on White Horse in New Hampshire and there's a good chance I would tie knots. Rapping off some crack on Glacier Point and I'd make the judgement call on the spot. An inexperienced client, I would threat differently but most like still not ties knots in the end of my rope at Arcadia because on how much rope is piled in the base. Me, I avoid rappelling when I can but I still end up on rappel a lot. Sometime it's coming off multi-pitch routes, sometimes single pitch route, sometimes I might be rap-bolting a new route. Sometimes I descending into canyons to check out new climbing of canyoneering potential. (Hot summers in Asia) I decide whether or not I need a knot at that time. More often than not, I don't have a knot, but I still use them sometimes. "BARK" Buckle, Anchor, Rap Device, and Knot is what I was taught in the 80s, but I also learned that every situation dictates what you do. Paying attention is a good first rule to follow. Paying attention is what helps me decide whether or not I need to tie those knots. No matter how much I pay attention, an accident can happen, maybe someone or something above dislodges a rock that knocks me uncontentious and I slide down my ropes until the knots stop me or not. I agree that we hear about more and more accidents happening, but more and more people are climbing. Percentage wise, are accidents up, down, or the same? Are we hearing about more accidents because of the internet? Let's face it, the accident above would most likely have gone unnoticed outside of the local cliff 15 to 20 years ago. Internet forums sure spread news quickly. So yes, pay attention, that is the best tool on your rack to keep you safe. Every situation dictates what you should or shouldn't do.
Acadia (no "r," and that´s not just an accent thing)
Arcadia is somewhere in Canada.
|
|
|
|
|
JimTitt
Jun 12, 2012, 5:40 AM
Post #77 of 89
(5556 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 7, 2008
Posts: 1002
|
`Arcadia is somewhere in Canada.´
It is a region of Greece. All others are copies.
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Jun 12, 2012, 12:23 PM
Post #78 of 89
(5526 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
JimTitt wrote: `Arcadia is somewhere in Canada.´ It is a region of Greece. All others are copies.
I don't really care about the Arcadia as much as I do about the Acadia spelling, so I suppose the Greeks can have it if they want it.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Jun 12, 2012, 7:25 PM
Post #79 of 89
(5485 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
Gmburns2000 wrote: JimTitt wrote: `Arcadia is somewhere in Canada.´ It is a region of Greece. All others are copies. I don't really care about the Arcadia as much as I do about the Acadia spelling, so I suppose the Greeks can have it if they want it.
They can't afford it.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Jun 12, 2012, 7:25 PM
Post #80 of 89
(5484 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
 Sorry. I couldn't resist.
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Jun 12, 2012, 10:23 PM
Post #81 of 89
(5456 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
j_ung wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: JimTitt wrote: `Arcadia is somewhere in Canada.´ It is a region of Greece. All others are copies. I don't really care about the Arcadia as much as I do about the Acadia spelling, so I suppose the Greeks can have it if they want it. They can't afford it.
Despite the fact that I get along with my ex-wife, she's from Salonika and I laughed.
She didn't like my "turn the Parthenon into condos" joke a couple of years ago when this all began.
|
|
|
|
|
guangzhou
Jun 13, 2012, 3:21 AM
Post #82 of 89
(5420 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 3389
|
All the questions asked and all you can focus on is a typo.
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Jun 13, 2012, 12:11 PM
Post #83 of 89
(5387 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
guangzhou wrote: All the questions asked and all you can focus on is a typo.
it was an important one
|
|
|
|
|
blueeyedclimber
Jun 13, 2012, 4:50 PM
Post #84 of 89
(5361 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
|
guangzhou wrote: All the questions asked and all you can focus on is a typo.
*pssst......Greg grew up in Acadia....*
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
Jun 13, 2012, 8:43 PM
Post #85 of 89
(5334 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
To me it sounds like if you tie a knot you are saying “I better take the time to tie a knot now because I might forget or be too busy or unable to check for the end of the rope later”.
Anticipating making a mistake is fine if you attempt to make sure that mistake doesn’t actually happen. Thinking about making a mistake then making that mistake only to be rescued by a knot is not actually correcting the root of the issue.
Thinking about the fact that you might forget or be too busy to check for the end of the rope later and then making sure you do not forget to check for the end of the rope is fixing the root of the issue.
Whether the knot is at the end of the rope or not is largely irrelevant to whether you are climbing safely or not. If you reach the end of the rope without knowing it then you have made a serious mistake whether you live through it or not.
If the knot is there then you probably won’t die in that situation. However, it would definitely be a good indication that you are not capable of doing one of the most basic acts in climbing. That is being aware of your situation.
But what do I know? I have only repelled once and that was with a guide because I know that I don’t know enough about repelling to do it on my own. The guide tied a knot in the end of the rope but did not explain why he did that. He simply said always be aware of where the end of the rope is.
When I am ready to repel on my own I may or may not tie a knot. I won’t decide whether I am going to use a knot until I am in that situation to assess all of the variables that I can see. However, if I do tie a knot then I won’t go into the climb thinking that I am going to trust the knot as the only thing to let me know that I have reached the end of the rope.
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Jun 13, 2012, 9:00 PM
Post #86 of 89
(5330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
blueeyedclimber wrote: guangzhou wrote: All the questions asked and all you can focus on is a typo. *pssst......Greg grew up in Acadia....*
|
|
|
|
|
ObviousTroll
Jun 13, 2012, 10:28 PM
Post #87 of 89
(5315 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2012
Posts: 90
|
Gmburns2000 wrote: suprasoup wrote: An interesting question to consider is has ANYBODY ever been saved by knots in their abseil rope? Personally, I've reached my knots before. But I was watching them. It was a '40m' abseil with a doubled 60m rope. With stretch I was 3m off the ground. I just untied the knots and let the rope slip through and then down climbed the last 3m. Yeah. Friends of mine decided that on their wedding day they'd climb up a multi pitch route and get married on the top of said route. The conditions that day were crap. Super frigid and so much fog that you couldn't see more than a few feet in front of you. Anyway, I rapped a subsequent line so that I could take pics of them climbing. On the second rap I see these indistinct shapes fluttering into my view from beyond the fog. "What the hell is that?" I'm wondering to myself. Well I'll tell ya it was pterodactyls man. A whole flock of them. [image]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5NRRnAsk4ZY/SyfGWhNTZvI/AAAAAAAAAKk/vxNyDzZm_eE/s320/12.png[/image] So here I am hanging on a rope several hundred feet off the ground, blanketed in an impenetrable fog, and somehow a freakin flock of prehistoric flying reptiles found my a$$. So what did they do? I'll tell you what they did. They tore me a new one thats what. They swooped in and bit and pecked and gouged at my face and eyes. Needless to say I tried to fight them off. And like the retard that I am I lost control of the rap in my efforts to avoid being mauled to death by pterodactyls. (I didn't have a prussic back up. Idiotic, I know) [image]http://images.flabber.net/files/lees_verder/assholeoatmeal.jpg[/image] So did I plummeted quickly to my death? Nope. I was on the high friction side of my device and I descended at a snails pace. So much so that I didn't even realize what was happening until I jammed up against the knot I had tied at the end of the rope. Did I thank my lucky stars that I remembered to tie the knot? In hindsight you betcha. But not then when I was dangling at the end of the rope like a stuffed pinata getting murderplexed by a mob of angry avian predators. So after the pterodactyls finished kicking the crap outta me they flew off. I came to a little while later, extricated myself, and ascended back up the rope to the anchors I had rapped past. Got myself into position in time for the bride and groom to climb past. So in answer to your question I have had my a$$ saved by a knot at the end of the rope. Supra Turns out the pterodactyls were actually falcons. But I'm sticking to Pterodactyls. Those suckers were HUGE! Just to save anyone the trouble of doubting you and your story of being attacked by falcons, I'm going to go ahead and remind folks that you have pictures of when you were attacked by a cougar...and not the 50 something in a slinky black dress kind. edit: fixed cheesetits
|
|
|
|
|
sandstone
Jun 14, 2012, 9:56 PM
Post #88 of 89
(5245 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 21, 2004
Posts: 324
|
JasonsDrivingForce wrote: [..]If you reach the end of the rope without knowing it then you have made a serious mistake ... it would definitely be a good indication that you are not capable of doing one of the most basic acts in climbing. That is being aware of your situation.[..]
If humans were capable of full situational awareness, irregardless of distraction, fatigue, stress, etc, then accidents might be a truly rare occurrence.
The reality is that we are all susceptible to those things, even the very best. If you realize that, and act accordingly, then your chances of surviving your inevitable mishaps improve considerably.
|
|
|
|
|
JasonsDrivingForce
Jun 15, 2012, 1:45 PM
Post #89 of 89
(5191 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2009
Posts: 687
|
sandstone wrote: JasonsDrivingForce wrote: [..]If you reach the end of the rope without knowing it then you have made a serious mistake ... it would definitely be a good indication that you are not capable of doing one of the most basic acts in climbing. That is being aware of your situation.[..] If humans were capable of full situational awareness, irregardless of distraction, fatigue, stress, etc, then accidents might be a truly rare occurrence. The reality is that we are all susceptible to those things, even the very best. If you realize that, and act accordingly, then your chances of surviving your inevitable mishaps improve considerably.
You are right. I guess what I should have said was “That is being aware of what is most important in your current situation”. If you can’t be aware of everything you should at least be aware of what is critical at that moment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
