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seatoskyboy
Jul 26, 2003, 8:01 AM
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I just started building my rack and I want some advice as to what eveyone likes and dislikes about certain makes and sizes of cams and why. I carry #.25 through #5 Rock Empire Cams (doubles of #1 & #2) a #2.5 forged WC friend and #1 & #2 BD camalots. Thanks for the imput. :lol:
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ricardol
Jul 26, 2003, 2:14 PM
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aleins up to the red size
BD from there up to 4
thats what i carry
(doubles in all sizes up to #2)
-- ricardo
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camhead
Jul 26, 2003, 4:48 PM
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Metolius (is the plural metolei?) for small stuff, Black Diamonds down to the purple size and up to #5, with Hugh Banner and Clog throwwn in for quantity at Indian Creek. Those Aliens rule, though; I'd really like to get a few more of them in the future.
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stevematthys
Jul 26, 2003, 7:38 PM
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cch aliens for small cams
bd camalots for sizes .75 and up
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javaguy
Jul 26, 2003, 7:44 PM
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I carry DMM 4CU cams #1 -> #2 WC technical friends #0.5 #1.75 #3
I love my DMM cams..they absolutely rule. I'm going to get all the sizes below #1 soon...preferably as DMM cams :)
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reno
Jul 26, 2003, 10:11 PM
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Mostly WC Friends (Flexible) but I just bought a Trango Cam. Placed it on the First Flatiron recently, and I really liked the feel and security. I might buy more of these, once I get enough cash.
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mntnman1973
Jul 26, 2003, 11:29 PM
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I have a full set of Aliens, BD from #1 - #4.5, and the Trango flexi cams from (tcu) 1-4 and (fcu) 4-8. My rack is very well rounded. I like the Trango cams for their price and range. I have taken a few bombers on the #2 tcu and it held. You could have droped a truck on this placement and it would not have moved.
If you have the money get BDs, if you want more for your money, get Trango.
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brutusofwyde
Jul 27, 2003, 12:04 AM
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I have a full set of BDs from .5 up, full set of old rigid stem Friends, full set of DMM 4 cams, full set of Stregor Titanium cams, and doubles and triples of aliens including offsets up to red. Plus WC offset friends #1.5 to 2.5. And many doubles and triples of various bootied pieces.
Friends, Camalots, and Valley giants in the larger sizes (doubles and triples).
For lightweight backcountry, I use DMMs and titanium. Cragging, BDs. at least a single set of aliens in the sizes mentioned always goes along. My rigid stem friends are currently cached at the base of some secret backcountry wall. Lots of high quality cams on the market today. I don't take the offset friends except in places renowned for flared cracks, like Joshua Tree and Fisher Towers.
Brutus
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freudian
Jul 27, 2003, 12:47 AM
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My Cams:
CCH Aliens: Blue, Green, Yellow, Red
BD Camalots: 0.75 , 1.00, 2.00
WC F-Friends: 2.5 (same range of 1.00 camalot)
My TriCams:
0.5 (pink) Camp
1.0 (red) Camp
1.5 (brown) Camp
My Nuts:
Omega Pacific / Smiley
2 sets of 1-13, plus doubles of #3
<< FREUDIAN >>
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pinkamy
Jul 27, 2003, 2:06 AM
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What's the difference between a cam and a friend? Thanks.
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brutusofwyde
Jul 27, 2003, 2:20 AM
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In reply to: What's the difference between a cam and a friend? Thanks.
SLCD = Spring loaded camming device = "cam"
some brands of cams:
Trango
Metolius
BD Camalot
Wild Country Friend
CCH Alien
Splitter
Designs of cams:
3-lobe (TCU) and 4-lobe (FCU)
Rigid single stem FCUs (e.g. forged Friends)
Flexible single stem FCUs (e.g. Technical Friends, Trango, Aliens, new style Camalots)
U-shaped stem FCUs and TCUs (e.g. Metolius and DMM 4 cam units, old style Camalots)
Get thyself some gear catalogs. :wink:
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desertclimber
Jul 27, 2003, 3:06 AM
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I counted my cams the other day, as I just bought ANOTHER rack off a poor friend who just wasn't into it anymore. You know what I found? Too damn many, most of which stay tucked away nicely in a duffle bag and never see the light until I'm at Indian Creek or something... And what have I found? On my normal trad rack, I just like a simple mix of brands/styles and sizes. Some work better for this or that, and you'll find your own personal preference as you climb more. Some cams I like because the trigger you can pull with one finger, others I like cuz they are so smooth, and others were FREE booty pulled off routes! (Sometimes certain climbing areas take to different pieces of gear better than others, also!) Just climb, climb, climb... Your own personal style will come to you! Just keep a nice mix, and what works for you the best will eventually become your standard rack!
Cheers!
Ian.
Hey PinkAmy, a cam and a friend are the same... Wild Country's "name" for their cams are "friends"... That's it!
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dlintz
Jul 27, 2003, 3:07 AM
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Often people and guidebooks use the two terms interchangably. BTW, Friends rule.
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brutusofwyde
Jul 27, 2003, 4:38 AM
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In reply to: For the big stuff, #4 camalot, 4.5 camalot and #6 tech friend. The 6 friend is head and shoulders above the 5 camalot, for useful range, doesn't walk, and looks bad ass.
Naah, that's just for the medium stuff. For the big stuff, #4 and #5 big bros and #9 and #12 Valley Giants. :)
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apollodorus
Jul 27, 2003, 5:59 AM
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In reply to: What's the difference between a cam and a friend? Thanks.
"Friend" is a trademark of Wild Country, the first company to make and sell SLCDS. The term in now used generically to refer to any cam, any SLCD. This is like using the term "Kleenex" for snotwipe tissue paper, or "Thermos" for insulated beverage bottles, or "Gore-Tex" for breathable waterproof fabrics.
FWIW, the idea of the trademark is to differentiate the trademarked product/item from other, similar ones that are presumably inferior. If a company fails to protect its trademark from its being used to refer to all products of a type, it can be rendered invalid. A perfect example is the term "nylon", which at one time was a trademark of DuPont's. It's now a generic term for a type of plastic. DuPont's version of nylon is now trademarked as Zytel. Same thing with "Teflon", another DuPont trademark in danger of falling into the public domain (i.e., anybody can use it to label their non-stick plastics).
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bustinmins
Jul 27, 2003, 2:00 PM
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I, like you, am just building my rack.
My gear includes:
BD Camalots .5, .75, two 1's, two 2's, 3, 3.5
BD Hexentrics doubled 5-10 one set cable with another set cord
BD Nuts doubled 4-13
Tri-Cams .5 - 2
15 BD Hotwire quickdraws
20, 25, 30 foot slings
25' of 6mm Cordelette
9 BD Hotwire Biners
6 locking biners
BD ATC-XP
Petzl Grigri
4 - 48" spectra runners
Have fun,
JD
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nunyoboy
Jul 27, 2003, 6:19 PM
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:shock: Wow, you climb on Rock Empire cams. Do you have a death wish? I'm Friends with somebody at Black Diamond who is in charge of pull testing gear. I had heard that those things fly apart when you fall on them and he didn't belive me. When he tested one it exploded at around 1200 lbs. Thats not very strong. Thats about what a Metolius 0 and 00 will hold and they are meant for aid pieces only. Any cam made in the czech republic should not be bought, they are all made in the same factory. This includes, Rock Empire Robots, Ocun Metal Jacks and Clog. I work at a climbing shop and can tell you all the beta on every cam and I believe that if you value your life you would retire these cams. I also vouch for the Friends and DMM FCUs & TCUs. These are literally the same design and offer the best strength and holding power out of all cams and cost 20% less than Black Diamond and Metolius. Also if you are into aid climbing, you really cant beat the Aliens from CCH.
P.S. Now that you have been warned, I advise all owners of Czech cams to discontinue use of these cams before more deaths occur.
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javaguy
Jul 27, 2003, 8:30 PM
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I belive that Rock Empire Cams are CE and UIAA approved. So they should be safe to climb with. But rock empire cams are not as "smooth" as more expensive cams like WC-Friends or DMM TCUs. So they tend to get stuck. :?
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joshklingbeil
Jul 27, 2003, 9:03 PM
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I took a 15 footer on a Czech Cam.The same POS cam that loves to walk.I keep them at home except for the 3 smallest sizes.
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calpolyclimber
Jul 27, 2003, 9:24 PM
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Metolius TCU's (1,2,3, 4) and Wild Country Tech Friends sizes 1 and up.
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calpolyclimber
Jul 27, 2003, 9:27 PM
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No offense, but none of what you just said about Czech cams is true... They are plenty strong, and are therefore CE and UIAA certified...
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caughtinside
Jul 28, 2003, 9:17 PM
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I've got 3 DMM four cams in addition to BD and aliens. I really like the DMM cams because of their low weight, doubled sling, nice action and cheaper price. The colors are cool too.
Right now they just fill in sizes, serve as doubles. But, I find myself preferring to place them over BD cams, usually where the doubled sling will help out.
The smallest DMM i've got is their 1.25. I've read on this site someone who said smaller than 1.5, they don't work too well. My 1.25 works great, almost identical size to the BD #.5. I can't speak for smaller sizes.
For me, the only question is which cam holds up better. I don't mind replacing worn out gear, but I want to get some mileage out of these suckers.
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petsfed
Jul 28, 2003, 9:26 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: For the big stuff, #4 camalot, 4.5 camalot and #6 tech friend. The 6 friend is head and shoulders above the 5 camalot, for useful range, doesn't walk, and looks bad ass. Naah, that's just for the medium stuff. For the big stuff, #4 and #5 big bros and #9 and #12 Valley Giants. :)
Truly.
I like the #5 WC instead of the #4.5 camalot, but that might be because its lighter and cheaper and walks less.
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vegastradguy
Jul 28, 2003, 9:48 PM
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I run with Aliens from Blue to Yellow (Double on Yellow), then BD from #.5 through #3.5 for my standard rack.
specialty cams: BD #4.5 (nice if you need something a little bigger, but i wouldnt carry any BD cam bigger than that. too unstable. i'd go with the WC #6)
Trango Big Bros #3, 4, & 5 for nasty large off width cracks.
I also use my partners Clogs and Trango Flexcams, which are fine as well. I do like my BD's a little better, but if it saves my life, that's all that matters.
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orangekyak
Jul 28, 2003, 9:57 PM
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So many great cam opinions ... you can also check out http://www.rockclimbing.com/shopping/index.php?c=13 which is the link to the cam section of the gear review area of rockclimbing.com. there are some good reviews to read, and it's easy to make your own reviews.
But I too love to spray about my cams ... I am another DMM fan. I have a full set of 4cus, which I mix up with some WC flex friends, a clog cam and a camalot. The active portion of my "standard rack" is DMM 4cus .5, .75, 1.25, 1.75, clog 2, WC 2.5, 3, Camalot 3. This leaves half of my cams on the ground, but I like to mix it up depending on the route.
Regarding above remarks about cost-benefit, I think the ideal inexpensive cam rack is (depending where you climb, depending on the route, duh):
DMM 3cus .5, .75, 1.25, 1.75
WC rigid friends 2, 2.5, 3, 4
retail price: 300 american dollars (but who pays retail?)
The above remarks that warn against czech cams seem a little uninformed. certainly anyone who has all the beta on cams ought to know that clog cams are from the UK, like WC, and are quality pieces for anyone who knows how to use a cam. I have not climbed on czech-made cams, except for yesterday when I cleaned a couple of my friend's trango cams out of a crack he had just led. I have looked at some other cams made by Hudy and they appear to be well made, and are certified to keep you alive if you use them right.
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holmeslovesguinness
Jul 28, 2003, 10:28 PM
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mmmm... cams.... i've got:
#4 Forged Friend
#3, 2, 1 BD Camalots
#4, 3 Trango TCU's
orange, yellow, and green Aliens
people rag on 'cheap' foreign made cams - my trangos are about 10 years old, Korean made, and have held up just as well as my #1 Camalot and #4 Friend (bought at the same time). that being said, i sure do like my camalots - i'll definitely pick up a .75 and will probably double up on the #1 and 2.
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paganmonkeyboy
Jul 28, 2003, 10:37 PM
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another vote for aliens up to the red or orange, metolius tcus 0 and 00, and DMM cams. forged friends seem pretty cool too - very light, cheaper than many, and they have that killer old school feel when you place one...
i like the aliens for the flexible stems, the metolius tcus go in tiny places and hold bomber, and the DMMs are lighter than almost anything else out there. some say they might walk a bit - i use long runners or clip a quickdraw to the sling and minimize the rope action, and they seem to work pretty well.
find a few people with different styles at the crags and ask them what they like and don't, maybe try a few out before you buy any....
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joegoesup
Aug 6, 2003, 7:09 PM
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I can't believe what you said can be correct, rock empire robots have worked well for me and they are uiaa certified.
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fredo
Aug 28, 2003, 4:54 PM
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Blue and Yellow Metolius, Aliens- Blue to Red, Camalots #0.5-#3. For doubles I have #1-#2 Camalots, #1.5-#1.74 WC Friends. Trango TCU #3-#4
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jay_climbingchick
Aug 28, 2003, 7:36 PM
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My boyfriend and I like to use Black Diamond cams.
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gyngve
Aug 28, 2003, 8:44 PM
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In reply to: For the big stuff, #4 camalot, 4.5 camalot and #6 tech friend. The 6 friend is head and shoulders above the 5 camalot, for useful range, doesn't walk, and looks bad ass.
My biggest complaint about the #6 Friend is that you have to operate the trigger with just two fingers, which can be a little taxing. If you try to use more fingers, then the cams hit your fingers while retracting.
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tenn_dawg
Aug 28, 2003, 8:45 PM
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What is this nonsence about rock empire cams?
For god's sake, there are more BS rumors, and speculation out there floating around.
In reply to: Wow, you climb on Rock Empire cams. Do you have a death wish? I'm Friends with somebody at Black Diamond who is in charge of pull testing gear. I had heard that those things fly apart when you fall on them and he didn't belive me. When he tested one it exploded at around 1200 lbs. Thats not very strong.
So, you're friends with someone who works at Black Diamond, and heard about them pull testing a Rock Empire cam? I'm sorry, but until I hear some more details, I'm calling BS. Get the person in charge of the testing to come in here, and tell up what really happened. I'm not interested in heresay.
To me, this just sounds like a case of misinformation, and speculation being spoken as truth.
I have lead thousands of feet using Rock Empire, and Trango cams for protection. I completely stand behind their saftey. They are not quite as nice as the Metolious or BD cams, but they cost a significant ammount less, and as far as I know, there has NEVER been an accident where a Rock Empire, or Trango cam failed, as a result structural failure.
In reply to: P.S. Now that you have been warned, I advise all owners of Czech cams to discontinue use of these cams before more deaths occur.
Care to back up this spray with a single example?
Oh, wait, you work in a gear shop. That explains your attitude.
Travis
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andypro
Aug 28, 2003, 9:04 PM
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In reply to: people rag on 'cheap' foreign made cams - my trangos are about 10 years old, Korean made, and have held up just as well as my #1 Camalot and #4 Friend (bought at the same time). that being said, i sure do like my camalots - i'll definitely pick up a .75 and will probably double up on the #1 and 2.
I totally agree here. I love my Trango 3CU's. They're 8 or 9 years old and still as smooth as the day I got them (I keep then nice and clean and lubed etc.) My biggest gripe with them is the open part of the plastic on the bottom of the frame cables. When your hands are already sore from climbing hot sharp rock, and you go to shove one in with the base against your palm, it irritates the heck out of it, to say the least. Other than that, 5 thumbs up! Iv'e even taken a 20 footer on the red one (#2 I think) and the plastic didn't even deform, let alone break, and everyhting lived through rather well save a SMALL deformation on the center cam.
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phugganut
Aug 28, 2003, 9:27 PM
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In reply to: ...Any cam made in the czech republic should not be bought, they are all made in the same factory. This includes, Rock Empire Robots, Ocun Metal Jacks and Clog. I work at a climbing shop and can tell you all the beta on every cam...
If you work in a climbing shop and can give beta on any cam, then you should know that Clog Cams are made in England. Clog is a subsidiary of Wild Country, and WC makes high quality gear. They are just like the older tech friends that didn't have machined cam stops.
As for me, I love my WC tech friends. I have a full set from 00 thru 5 and they are awesome!!! They're cheaper than camalots, too.
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deafclimber
Aug 28, 2003, 11:01 PM
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i cant believe what u said, nunyoboy.
personally i have 2 sets of Rock Empire cams. they work just fine. my next cam set will be aliens.
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crimsontime
Sep 16, 2003, 7:36 PM
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Metolius TCU's for smallest sizes.
Aliens.
DMM\BD cams for larger sizes.
I'd avoid BD and get DMM as much as possible. BD's are too heavy, and DMM's are better than BD for aid climbing, if you ever get into that.
-That's my ideal, but actually I have a motley rack of Clogs, TCU's, BD's, Aliens, and DMM cams.
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phugganut
Sep 19, 2003, 7:42 PM
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Tech Friends. Definitely. 8)
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soccer_fan
Sep 19, 2003, 8:11 PM
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Camalots 1, 2, 3, 3.5, 4.5
WC Tech Friends 1.75, 2.5, 3.5, 4
Hex's for backups and for places that stuff that just takes a hex
Metolius curve nuts full set.
1 red tri-cam
Looking at getting either Aliens or Metolius TCU's for the smaller stuff, not sure which one yet.
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jacobs
Sep 20, 2003, 2:52 PM
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black alien,purple and blue tcu .5 friends to #4 friend.
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dlintz
Sep 23, 2003, 12:51 AM
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I'm a big fan of Tech Friends in any size and Metolius in the smaller sizes.
Aliens.....(sigh) someday.
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orangekyak
Sep 23, 2003, 1:04 AM
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oh goody, a chance to spray about my rack ...
DMM 4cus #.5 to #4
Clog cam #2
WC Friends #2.5 and #3
BD Camalot #3
I typically carry
DMM .5
DMM.75
DMM 1
DMM 2 or Clog 2 (sometimes both)
WC 2.5
WC 3
BD 3
It's nice to have doubles. I made a conscious decision to go with the DMMs and WCs over the BDs because I'd rather carry more units than have more range per unit. Personal preference, I'd say.
My wish list includes the bottom two Metolius TCUs.
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one900johnnyk
Sep 23, 2003, 10:37 AM
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trango flex... i don't know why....
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kyhangdog
Sep 23, 2003, 12:10 PM
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BD all the way... except for small sizes, then Metolius Power and TCUS. I also carry my old standard, Wired Bliss. Been placing the Bliss for ten years and they still rock.
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kirkbrode
Sep 24, 2003, 5:30 AM
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camalots are a dream to place. get all the sizes from 0.3 to 4.0. eventually get doubles in size 0.5 to 3. supplement with 00 through #2 TCU. consider doubles on #1 tcu. dont waist your time on small 4 cam units, get tcu in this range. dont get TCU bigger than #2; 0.5 camalot is best here. tied off medium-sized ridged-stem freinds are great for horizonals, especially if you fall on them a lot.
buy stoppers before you buy your first cam, no matter how cool the fancy cam gadgets seem. You are a tool bag if you spend $80 and end up with only two peices of pro.
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skiorclimb
Sep 29, 2003, 5:41 AM
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I have Trango flex cams(#s'1-8,2x#3), red + yellow Aliens, #1 camalot, red, gold, purple WC tech-friend.
The Trango flex cams work just fine up to #7(7+ 8 are to narrow for their size). However one draw back of these is that the cams aren't anodized. Picking out the right one from a crowded rack requires looking for the numbers on the stem. The color coding of the slings doesn't have enough contrast.
Aliens are expensive and look pretty fragile, however for small stuff they work like a charm. I am definitely picking up the green, blue, and another yellow when I can.
Camalots are heavy and expensive. They are smooth, have increased rang.
WC Tech-friends are the best value in my opinion. They are affordable, flexible, it is easy to pick out the right size with a quick glance. If I had it to do over I would get these instead of the Trango.
DMM makes a nice cam. I don't like the trigger set-up though. They are hard to retract when placed deep.
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