|
|
|
|
rockzen
Aug 10, 2003, 5:05 AM
Post #26 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 21, 2003
Posts: 236
|
A guy response here...
If you eat a couple large portions per day, try eating smaller portions more times per day. If you eat more than you need, your body will store excesses as fat. If you take large portions, trying taking smaller portions. If you make/order too much, don't feel bad if you don't eat it all. Leaving food on your plate is hard... believe me I know...!
Drink plenty of water. One of the first symptoms of dehydration is the feeling of hunger. Besides, drinking plenty of water has a lot of other benefits... like reduced incidence of colon and breast cancers...
If you eat a lot of junk... maybe look at cutting it out, or reducing it. I read a quote somewhere... 'Do you want muscles made of potatoe chips, ice cream, and chocolate?'. Not sure if it matters... muscle is muscle right?!? Nonetheless, they are empty calories... maybe check the nutrition info on these foods... they pack near no nutritional value and are loaded with calories. If you havent already, do some comparisons... you might be suprised/shocked at what you find. :shock:
Atkins... ah yes. I wounldn't be jumping totally on board with it either. It's worth doing some serious research on it - considering the glycemic index of foods is becoming more and more accepted in the scientific community. Might be worth looking at the glycemic load of some of the foods you eat.
Ya... don't be cutting out any food groups... except maybe the chocolate food group. My wife insists it is a food group... what can I say? :roll:
Watch your fat intake - especially saturated fats. 1 gram of fat has 9 calories, whereas 1 gram of carb or protein has 4 calories. Yikes!
If you think there are a lot of changes you need to make, it would be difficult to change a lot at once. If you aren't sure what to do, consult your doctor.
Just my 2 cents... good luck!
RockZen
|
|
|
|
|
rockzen
Aug 10, 2003, 5:34 AM
Post #27 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 21, 2003
Posts: 236
|
In reply to: Popcorn worked when I ate it for an afternoon snack. I just got sick of eating it. :( Besides rice cakes, popcorn, raw veggies, give me heartburn. I do drink a lot more water but, I can't shake the hunger. I end up eating more to fill up. I get a better feeling when I combine a lump of French bread and a glass of water. My problem is I love to put butter on it! Even then success is fleeting.
Mmmmm... fresh bread with butter!
Hate to say it, but if you are already getting your grains and breads throughout the day, it doesn't make a very nutritional snack. Popcorn too... might be temporary filler... but they are empty calories. French bread is high GI, which means it's carbs are broken down into sugars quickly, and will cause a spike in your insulin. Not suprising that you feel hungry soon after. :? I'm not saying don't eat these at all... just don't be expecting much from them as a healthy snack. The veggies are good though!
If you are always feeling hungry... even with enough water and carbs, it might be protein that your body is craving. Could be wrong though?!? Could also try something lower on the GI.
A snack that I love, especially in the morning is (fills me up till lunch): low fat yogurt, a couple spoons of low fat granola, and a half scoop of protein powder. It is close to a protein bar in terms of fat, carbs, and protein. And the best part is... it is yummy! :lol:
RockZen
|
|
|
|
|
mewalrus
Aug 10, 2003, 5:37 AM
Post #28 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 132
|
Try eating more nuts, sure they have quite a bit of calories, but they fill you up great. I can eat a little bit of nuts and not be hungry for quite awhile. They take time to move thru, unlike most other snack foods(fruit or carb stuff) which leave me hungry 30 mins later.
|
|
|
|
|
vivalargo
Aug 12, 2003, 7:01 PM
Post #29 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 1512
|
As I understand it, the reason most diets fail is that they reduce food intake so much that a person's metabolism slows down to the point that the body won't start feeding off the fat strores. That's why "diets" such as Inter-Fit and others are not so much routines that cut down on food intake as much as they are shifts in routine--such as changing what you eat (more protein and far less carbs) and putting in more time--at regular intervals--doing cardio (biking, et al). Again, working out and eating the right stuff at regular intervals seems to be key. Simply trying to cut down on how much you eat is almost certain to bring sketchy results. The idea is to rev the machine up, feed it high octane fule and run it hard and then let it totally cool down--and keep this cycle going forever.
|
|
|
|
|
cheshire
Aug 24, 2003, 3:53 AM
Post #30 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 15, 2002
Posts: 5
|
I would suggest research Atkins before you rule it out completely. I have been on many different diet without any success. When I started Atkin, I lost 15 pounds in first month and to date have lost 32 pounds. Right now I don't follow Atkin to the book, however I still do low carb and high protein. I have gained more energy and am able to exercise more. I make sure I exercise about 45 to 60 mins daily (with one day rest). That includes any cardio and strength training. It is very important to excercise regularly to prevent any muscle tissue loss while trying to lose weight. Every one of us have different bodies. While some diet work for others may not work for another group. Unfortunately, we have to do trial and error until we find the "right" formula for our body. I don't think there is such thing as perfect diet. Don't give up! :D
|
|
|
|
|
dervish
Aug 25, 2003, 12:15 AM
Post #31 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 10, 2003
Posts: 5
|
If you want to lose weight, skip the dieting & make healthy lifestyle changes. (give up dairy, no snacking after 8, more raw veggies/fruit)
It works wonders. (seen Demi's bod lately?)
raw raw raw,
derv
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 25, 2003, 5:01 PM
Post #32 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: If you want to lose weight, skip the dieting & make healthy lifestyle changes. (give up dairy, no snacking after 8, more raw veggies/fruit) It works wonders. (seen Demi's bod lately?) raw raw raw, derv
I have to strongly disagree on the adivce to give up dairy foods, which are the main source of calcium in Western diets. Regarding dairy and weight loss, much better advice is to switch to non-fat dairy.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
mreardon
Aug 25, 2003, 5:47 PM
Post #33 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 1337
|
In reply to: In reply to: If you want to lose weight, skip the dieting & make healthy lifestyle changes. (give up dairy, no snacking after 8, more raw veggies/fruit) It works wonders. (seen Demi's bod lately?) raw raw raw, derv I have to strongly disagree on the adivce to give up dairy foods, which are the main source of calcium in Western diets. Regarding dairy and weight loss, much better advice is to switch to non-fat dairy. -Jay
A "one-a-day" will replace whatever calcium you think a person is missing. Worked for me during the 8 years I went without.
Back to the original post - the best and easiest way to "diet" is not to. Very simply, you know what your body wants and needs and it should be satisfied. Don't listen to any diet books, gurus, etc. Listen to your own body. The best way to start is simple enough - write down what you eat all day long. This means EVERYTHING, including how much water you drink. You'll be amazed at how much you think you intake, compared to what you really do. Everyone thinks they drink enough water, but almost everyone still pees yellow - do the math.
The same goes for the food. A lot of people will try to maintain that you should go veggie, but that might not be healthy for you. Personally I tried being veggie and it became part of a recurring health problem for me that suppliments did not cure. Now that I have plenty of fish in the diet, no issues. So much for the diet gurus and doctors knowing my body better than me....
And yup, you can have the occasional snack every now and then. Eat ice cream, but also mix it in with plenty of fruit and veggies. If the jeans get too tight, change accordingly. Lastly, change exercises! You'd be amazed at how your body adapts if all you're doing is the same thing over and over. I watched someone work on the treadmill over and over and had some great results for the first few months. Then nothing. She started mixing in the treadmill with taking the dog for a run up the back hills, and all of a sudden, great gains again.
In the end, it's the same message over and over - listen to your body. You know what makes you feel like crap, and you know what makes you feel good. You know what makes you gain weight, and you know what helps you get lean. In the end, eat throughout the day to keep the metabolism up, exercise regularly, and pay attention. You'll do great by this.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 25, 2003, 6:44 PM
Post #34 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: If you want to lose weight, skip the dieting & make healthy lifestyle changes. (give up dairy, no snacking after 8, more raw veggies/fruit) It works wonders. (seen Demi's bod lately?) raw raw raw, derv I have to strongly disagree on the adivce to give up dairy foods, which are the main source of calcium in Western diets. Regarding dairy and weight loss, much better advice is to switch to non-fat dairy. -Jay A "one-a-day" will replace whatever calcium you think a person is missing.
No, it won't. Multivitamins contain relatively little calcium (Centrum, eg, contains only 20% of the RDI). Most Americans don't consume enough calcium even with dairy foods in their diet. Without dairy, you'd almost certainly have to take a specific calcium supplement to meet the RDI.
In reply to: Worked for me during the 8 years I went without.
First of all, you don't whether it "worked for you" unless you had a bone scan done. You're too young to get osteoporosis. Let us know how well it worked when you're 70.
Secondly, even if it did "work for you." I can show you 100 controlled studies that show that your calcium intake was probably dangerously low.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
mreardon
Aug 25, 2003, 9:50 PM
Post #35 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 1337
|
In reply to: In reply to: Worked for me during the 8 years I went without. First of all, you don't whether it "worked for you" unless you had a bone scan done. You're too young to get osteoporosis. Let us know how well it worked when you're 70. Secondly, even if it did "work for you." I can show you 100 controlled studies that show that your calcium intake was probably dangerously low. -Jay
I won't debate nutrition with you Jay, that's what you get paid for and you'd likely kick my tush. Except that whole statistics thing - I mean c'mon dawg, that's all you got? Statistics are always crap. I can show you statistics that prove everyone who ate carrots 200 years ago DIED - does it mean, don't eat carrots? But I still believe that only the individual knows what's best to intake. As for the bone scan, yup, had that and a few other pleasures not too long ago and everything was fine. Guess there must be more calcium in lemonade than I thought :wink: And if I make it 70, it won't be from diet, so we'll take it up again then. Until then, I'll enjoy my slurpees, sushi, and one-a-days until someone comes up with a consensus.
Now back to the original post....
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 25, 2003, 10:56 PM
Post #36 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: I won't debate nutrition with you Jay, that's what you get paid for and you'd likely kick my tush. Except that whole statistics thing - I mean c'mon dawg, that's all you got?
Actually, I get paid to do statistical analyses of of nutrition studies, so I would recommend that you avoid debating statistics with for similar reasons.
In reply to: I can show you statistics that prove everyone who ate carrots 200 years ago DIED - does it mean, don't eat carrots?
I can show you statistics that show that calcium intake is inversely related to the risk of developing osteoporosis in controlled prospective studies. Does that mean you should tell women that it is ok to replace dairy foods, the only concentrated source of calcium in their diet, with a multivitamin containing a fraction of the calcium?
In reply to: But I still believe that only the individual knows what's best to intake.
I disagree. Most of us are designed by eons of evolution to gain weight in the presence of food abundance. We are biologically programmed to prefer rich sources of calories, and to consume them in excess of our immediate energy needs. We tend to prefer fats and sweets (especially when combined, which is why Hagen Daz tastes better than Brussels sprouts). Historically, this was biologic protection against food scarcities, which were more the rule than the exception. However, in modern times, constantly surrounded by an excess of food, left to our own devices most of do what nature intended: gain weight. For this reason, most people need to consciously control their diet (and exercise) to maintain optimal body weight.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
debsanders
Aug 26, 2003, 6:17 PM
Post #37 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 4, 2003
Posts: 173
|
I've been doing Atkins (Mrs. Atkins - as I like to call it) for two years. This combined with climbing has put me back in size four pants. At 5.4 I weigh 125, so you can read I have some muscle mass.
Starchy carbs are poison for my body. The starch combined with fats are very addictive. I want more and more. It's like alcohol.
Do I crave the occasional bowl of ice cream, bread and butter, pizza, taco, or chocolate cake? You bet I do. Do I give in? Yes I do. I just don't make it part of my regular food intake. I love the way I eat!
Eating protein, fiberous carbs, and good fats workds for me and I would recommend it to many that have the same sugar/starch addiction that I do.
I have more energy eating the way I do and my muscle mass keeps me on the wall.
|
|
|
|
|
mreardon
Aug 26, 2003, 6:47 PM
Post #38 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 1337
|
Self-Edited because my prior answer sounded more suited for Community than this board. I'll argue with JT via PM if it's even worth it.
|
|
|
|
|
strongerthanyesterday
Aug 26, 2003, 7:09 PM
Post #39 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 213
|
Dairy products make me break out and give me a stomachache. I do my best to avoid them. I think they're disgusting and I especially avoid mass produced dairy. Organiz is ok once in awhile. I drink Edensoy with a low sugar content and fortified with calcium and extra b12.
|
|
|
|
|
gretchino
Aug 26, 2003, 8:18 PM
Post #40 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 393
|
In reply to: have to strongly disagree on the adivce to give up dairy foods, which are the main source of calcium in Western diets. Regarding dairy and weight loss, much better advice is to switch to non-fat dairy. -Jay
I have to disagree with you as well Jay...Most people are drawn to dairy because it is supposed to be a good source of calcium. What people (including many health practitioners) are not aware of is the fact that cow's milk is more likely a contributor to calcium deficiency. This is because cow's milk is very high in phosphorus and protein. Elevated phosphorus levels make calcium assimilation difficult. When excessive protein is ingested, the blood can become too acidic. To buffer this rise in acid the body draws on calcium stored in the bones, a process known as calcium leaching. The greater a person's protein intake, the higher their calcium losses will be, and regardless of how much calcium is consumed either in the diet or through supplements, this calcium leaching will continue unabated unless the protein consumption is reduced. . . .
Anyone who has studied the composition of foods knows that a variety of whole grains, vegetables, nuts and seeds--such as broccoli, turnip greens, carrots, spinach, cauliflower, kale, onions, almonds and filberts--are excellent sources of calcium. The fact is, more calcium will be absorbed by the body from a cup of broccoli than from a cup of milk! Yet little more than common sense is necessary to destroy the myth of dairy as the best source of calcium. Where do the mighty bovines get their calcium? Certainly not from the milk of another animal. They get it from eating greens. Does it make sense that in order to get the calcium we need, nature planned for humans to be nursing from another species? The image helps one see how preposterous the whole dairy mythology is.
|
|
|
|
|
rockwomyn
Aug 26, 2003, 8:22 PM
Post #41 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2001
Posts: 373
|
Bingo gretchino........ :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 26, 2003, 8:34 PM
Post #42 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: have to strongly disagree on the adivce to give up dairy foods, which are the main source of calcium in Western diets. Regarding dairy and weight loss, much better advice is to switch to non-fat dairy. -Jay I have to disagree with you as well Jay...Most people are drawn to dairy because it is supposed to be a good source of calcium. What people (including many health practitioners) are not aware of is the fact that cow's milk is more likely a contributor to calcium deficiency. This is because cow's milk is very high in phosphorus and protein. Elevated phosphorus levels make calcium assimilation difficult. When excessive protein is ingested, the blood can become too acidic. To buffer this rise in acid the body draws on calcium stored in the bones, a process known as calcium leaching. The greater a person's protein intake, the higher their calcium losses will be, and regardless of how much calcium is consumed either in the diet or through supplements, this calcium leaching will continue unabated unless the protein consumption is reduced. . . .
I don't have time to go into this in detail, but you've been taken in by vegan propaganda. Protein does increase calcium depletion in the urine, but it also increases intestinal absorption of calcium. This is an area of ongoing research, but the best evidence to date suggests that optimal bone health occurs when both calcium and protein intake are both at high levels.
The effect of phosphorus in calcium metabolism is poorly understood; regardless, there is abundant scientific evidence that dairy foods are good for bone health.
In reply to: Anyone who has studied the composition of foods knows that a variety of whole grains, vegetables, nuts and seeds--such as broccoli, turnip greens, carrots, spinach, cauliflower, kale, onions, almonds and filberts--are excellent sources of calcium.
Actually, grains tend to be marginal sources of calcium because they contain phytates that inhibit calcium absorption. Spinach is essentially worthless as a source of calcium because the oxalates it contains almost completely block absorption of its calcium. Kale and turnip are among the best sources of calcium on the planet, but you'd have to eat about 2 cups of them every day to get near the RDI for calcium. How many cups of kale have you had this week so far? That's the problem with not consuming dairy; we just don't eat enough of the few truly good plant sources of calcium. A lot of the other foods you mention are not particulary good sources of calcium. If you eliminate dairy from your diet and can't slug down two cups of kale, turnip, or mustard greens a day, you should take a calcium supplement.
In reply to: The fact is, more calcium will be absorbed by the body from a cup of broccoli than from a cup of milk!
I rather doubt that about broccoli, though if you said kale or turnip greens I would agree with you.
[vegan philosophy lecture snipped]
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
gretchino
Aug 26, 2003, 9:06 PM
Post #43 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 393
|
In reply to: I don't have time to go into this in detail, but you've been taken in by vegan propaganda. -Jay
Just as I have been "taken in by vegan propaganda" you have been fed into the "nutritional Education" of our county (funded in part by the dairy industry). I am not vegan, infact I am a meat eater...I just refuse to eat dairy. Since I have cut dairy from my diet, I haven't had the cronic bronchitus that I've been fighting my entire life (that doctors attributed to allergies and asthma...), I was diagnosed with Asthma at an early age and do not show any signs or suffer as I did in the past (yeah, no more inhaler!), and my gut has returned to a healthy state (I needn't describe exactly what I was experiencing, I think everyone get's the picture when the word 'gut' is involved). I could continue, but I think you get the drift.
There is overwhelming evidence that milk and milk products are harmful to people (adult and child alike) . Milk is a contributing factor in constipation, chronic fatigue, arthritis, headaches, muscle cramps, obesity, allergies, heart problems, etc etc.
Basically, diary is as American as Apple Pie but that's because apple pie doesn't have Congressional lobbyists and a multi-million dollar advertising budget...no other countries include dairy into their lifestyle as Amerians do. Thus, most parents wouldn't think of raising their children without the benefit of cow's milk to help their little bones to grow big and strong. Its silky, white texture is the very epitome of our concept of wholesome purity
You said there were studies on the goodness of milk, hell, there are studies showing anything you want! However, If you want some good books on the non-dairy (which I'm sure you do! :wink: ) check out Don't Drink Your Milk! by Frank Oski, M.D (Director of the Department of Pediatrics of Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and Physician-in-Chief of the Johns Hopkins Children's Center) as well as many papers written by retired osteopathic physican Dr. William Ellis, and pediatrician Dr. russel Bunai.
Basically we can go round and round on this issue and not get to an agreement :) ...
Thanks for participating...[Dairy philosophy lecture snipped] :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 26, 2003, 10:07 PM
Post #44 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: I don't have time to go into this in detail, but you've been taken in by vegan propaganda. -Jay There is overwhelming evidence that milk and milk products are harmful to people (adult and child alike).
False.
In reply to: Milk is a contributing factor in constipation, chronic fatigue, arthritis, headaches, muscle cramps, obesity, allergies, heart problems, etc etc...
There are people, like yourself, who are sensitive to dairy products. Likewise, there are people who are sensitive to other foods, such as nuts, but for some reason, they just avoid nuts, without ascribing the world's ills to them.
In reply to: Basically, diary is as American as Apple Pie but that's because apple pie doesn't have Congressional lobbyists and a multi-million dollar advertising budget...no other countries include dairy into their lifestyle as Amerians do.
You're making a straw man argument. None of that has any relevance to whether dairy foods are healthy or not. Yeah, industries lobby Congress. So what? If you want to find out whether dairy products are healthful or not, go read the multitude of studies on the subject.
In reply to: However, If you want some good books on the non-dairy (which I'm sure you do! :wink: ) check out Don't Drink Your Milk! by Frank Oski, M.D (Director of the Department of Pediatrics of Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and Physician-in-Chief of the Johns Hopkins Children's Center) as well as many papers written by retired osteopathic physican Dr. William Ellis, and pediatrician Dr. russel Bunai.
If I want to look for unbiased information on health effects of a particular food, I don't look at books written for the general public by doctors with virtually no nutritional training. I assure you that I have studied nutrition in greater depth than any of the authors you've listed. I go to the original source, the peer review literature on the subject.
In reply to: Basically we can go round and round on this issue and not get to an agreement :) ...
You're right, we'll never come to agreement because you have fanatical beliefs on the subject, which you feed by reading only one side of the issue. If you are interested in a more neutral treatment of the subject, go to the National Library of Medicine's website http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ and do a literature search.
There is no question that some people are sensitive to dairy foods. Most people aren't, and so dairy becomes a convenient source of calcium. Unfortunately, the Western diet is low in plant sources of calcium, so adequate calcium nutrition becomes a challenge for people like yourself. The safest approach, if you're not going to consume dairy foods, is take a calcium supplement.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
gretchino
Aug 26, 2003, 10:45 PM
Post #45 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 393
|
In reply to: You're right, we'll never come to agreement because you have fanatical beliefs on the subject, which you feed by reading only one side of the issue
I have yet to see the positive benefits of dairy, jay when there are so many other options out there. Options that are less detrimental to the body. That is not being fanatical. With respect to Dairy Products I can see many more negatives than positives. That is also, not being fanatical. It is from my own experience.
I have to add, since you're poking jabs, I am not the only one with such beliefs and would go so far as to include you in the categorization of being fanatical.
Again, thanks for playing and for putting in your two cents, it is appreciated. :D
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 27, 2003, 12:51 AM
Post #46 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: I have yet to see the positive benefits of dairy, jay when there are so many other options out there.
The benefits of dairy is that it is a rich source of calcium. An added benefit of non-fat dairy is that it is also a good source of lean protein.
As far as calcium goes, there really aren't a lot of other options out there. About the only foods that could be consumed in sufficient quantities to yield sufficient calcium are turnip greens, kale, and mustard greens. There are indeed better sources of calcium than milk, but you really would need to consume a couple cups of them each day to meet the RDI for calcium, and few people eat that much of those foods. The other foods you mentioned are either mediocre sources of calcium or are impractical to consume in large quantities (eg, sesame seeds).
Incidentally, as to your own diet, as far as calcium goes, you may well have the worst of both worlds: a high-protein intake coupled with a low-calcium intake. You were correct that protein causes loss of calcium from the bones; however, in the presence of high calcium intake, high-protein intake increases the absorption of dietary calcium from the intestine, and the best evidence indicates that the net effect on bone is positive. However, when calcium intake is low, high protein intake cannot further upregulate the absorption of calcium from the intestine, and the net effect on bone is negative.
In reply to: With respect to Dairy Products I can see many more negatives than positives. That is also, not being fanatical. It is from my own experience.
Indeed, but it is fallacious to project what is essentially a food allergy onto the rest of the public. If everybody who had a food allergy or sensitivity took the stand you do, none of us could eat anything.
In reply to: I have to add, since you're poking jabs, I am not the only one with such beliefs and would go so far as to include you in the categorization of being fanatical.
Since when is holding a generally accepted view fanatical?
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
gretchino
Aug 27, 2003, 2:21 PM
Post #47 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 393
|
In reply to: Incidentally, as to your own diet, as far as calcium goes, you may well have the worst of both worlds: a high-protein intake coupled with a low-calcium intake. You were correct that protein causes loss of calcium from the bones; however, in the presence of high calcium intake, high-protein intake increases the absorption of dietary calcium from the intestine, and the best evidence indicates that the net effect on bone is positive. However, when calcium intake is low, high protein intake cannot further upregulate the absorption of calcium from the intestine, and the net effect on bone is negative.-Jay
Thank you for your concern, however I did not ask your opinion on my own diet nor did I disclose enough of what I eat for you to make any observations on how I have the best or worst of both worlds. I merely stated that I eat meat and not dairy. Do you honestly think I sit down everyday with a rack of lamb and nothing else? That's ludicrous...
In reply to: Since when is holding a generally accepted view fanatical?
When it is shoved down everyone's throat as an absolute truth. Since when is a generally accepted view correct? This is not always the case. Anyway, you've already accepted part of what I said by saying
In reply to: There are indeed better sources of calcium than milk.
I'm through with this conversation...
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Aug 27, 2003, 2:50 PM
Post #48 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: Thank you for your concern...
You're welcome. Thank you for accepting it so graciously.
In reply to: Anyway, you've already accepted part of what I said by saying In reply to: There are indeed better sources of calcium than milk.
And to put that statement back into the context from which your removed it:
In reply to: About the only foods that could be consumed in sufficient quantities to yield sufficient calcium are turnip greens, kale, and mustard greens. There are indeed better sources of calcium than milk, but you really would need to consume a couple cups of them each day to meet the RDI for calcium, and few people eat that much of those foods. The other foods you mentioned are either mediocre sources of calcium or are impractical to consume in large quantities (eg, sesame seeds).
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
mreardon
Aug 27, 2003, 5:55 PM
Post #49 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 1337
|
In reply to: In reply to: You're right, we'll never come to agreement because you have fanatical beliefs on the subject, which you feed by reading only one side of the issue With respect to Dairy Products I can see many more negatives than positives. That is also, not being fanatical. It is from my own experience....Again, thanks for playing and for putting in your two cents, it is appreciated. :D
Gotta' go with G on this one. Amazing how if you disagree with JT you're fanatical. If you bring up a personal experience, you can't possibly be correct because statistics don't lie (I taught a class on statistics, but even I'm not allowed to debate JT on that one apparently), and in general if you don't drink milk you're screwed because the RDI (which has never been wrong) said so.. Well, California's potential new govornor, Arnold, doesn't drink milk and has a decent body, my wife doesn't drink milk and has a decent body, my climbing partner doesn't drink milk and has a decent body (won a bunch of wrestling titles while he was at it), but my daughter drinks a ton of it (I won't comment on her body - too creepy) but hey, personal experiences like these folks don't matter to JT, only his statistics, and of course the RDI (which is never wrong). And he's made such a great living at statistics, everyone in the world immediately refers to him whenever they have a concern because only his fair and objective statistical research is correct, and everyone else is wrong (ooo, sorry about the personal jab, it was the "fanatic" in me).
Here's some cool statistics:
1. The majority of people voted for Gore;
2. Test screening scores of E.T. guaranteed it would fail; and
3. Everyone who drank milk 200 years ago DIED!
Oh yeah, and this little tidbit: "The Harvard Nurses’ Health Study, which followed more than 75,000 women for 12 years, showed no protective effect of increased milk consumption on fracture risk. In fact, increased intake of calcium from dairy products was associated with a higher fracture risk. An Australian study showed the same results. Additionally, other studies have also found no protective effect of dairy calcium on bone. You can decrease your risk of osteoporosis by reducing sodium and animal protein intake in the diet, increasing intake of fruits and vegetables, exercising, and ensuring adequate calcium intake from plant foods such as leafy green vegetables and beans, as well as calcium-fortified products such as breakfast cereals and juices."
But hey, read all about it for yourself at http://www.petaindia.com/vdairy.html. Of course these people are using statistics that disagree with JT so I'm not sure how correct they are :wink:
Okay, I think this thread was hijacked far enough. Back to your regularly scheduled postings. Now where'd I put that calcium fortified slurpee?
|
|
|
|
|
gretchino
Aug 27, 2003, 8:48 PM
Post #50 of 72
(3050 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 393
|
In reply to: Gotta' go with G on this one. Amazing how if you disagree with JT you're fanatical. If you bring up a personal experience, you can't possibly be correct because statistics don't lie (I taught a class on statistics, but even I'm not allowed to debate JT on that one apparently), and in general if you don't drink milk you're screwed because the RDI (which has never been wrong) said so..
Thanks man...I was sick of slamming my head on my desk... :shock:
|
|
|
|
|
|
