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puppypower
Nov 20, 2003, 6:31 PM
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Alright, this MIGHT seem a little paranoid (I am new at this!) but wanted to get your input. So I've posted to look for new climbing partners and as a female, I was wondering if you guys feel safe to just meet whoever wherever (especially if you meet at a more public place but then end up in some remote area to climb), especially cuz they're mostly guys... Thanks!
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robmcc
Nov 20, 2003, 6:54 PM
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I'd encourage you to be careful. I don't know of any horror stories personally, but I always try to make it possible for a "safe" meeting beforehand (local gym) and outdoor trips are generally with a group. I was somewhat sensitized to this particular issue by a young woman I once climbed with who would never go climbing with me unless her 2 male partners were also going. I don't know if she felt it was a safety issue or they were just really good friends. Whatever. I didn't ask. Anyway, it's a reasonable concern.
Not too long a woman joined my partner and I for a day trip, which went fine, but on the subsequent trip my partner had to back out at the last minute. Rather than make her decide based on (imo) insufficient information whether I was "safe" or not, I just suggested she invite some other people along. She did, quite possibly never realizing why I made that suggestion. I guess she'll know when she reads this. :lol: I think I'm well into the "safe" camp now.
I'd say that most climbers (and most people) are decent and safe in such a situation, but you never really know. I'd be suspicious of anyone who resists you arranging a "safe" meeting beforehand, but then I'm paranoid, too.
Rob
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jt512
Nov 20, 2003, 7:11 PM
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In reply to: Alright, this MIGHT seem a little paranoid (I am new at this!) but wanted to get your input. So I've posted to look for new climbing partners and as a female, I was wondering if you guys feel safe to just meet whoever wherever (especially if you meet at a more public place but then end up in some remote area to climb), especially cuz they're mostly guys... Thanks!
You live in SoCal, right? It seems to me that the easiest and safest way to meet climbing partners is at one of our many local gyms. If you do hook up with a partner online, make your first climbing "trip" or 2 together to the gym. That way you can evaluate each other in a relatively safe environment before venturing outdoors together.
-Jay
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kimmyt
Nov 20, 2003, 7:32 PM
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In reply to: Alright, this MIGHT seem a little paranoid (I am new at this!) but wanted to get your input. So I've posted to look for new climbing partners and as a female, I was wondering if you guys feel safe to just meet whoever wherever (especially if you meet at a more public place but then end up in some remote area to climb), especially cuz they're mostly guys... Thanks!
There's nothing paranoid about taking responsibility for your own safety. I'm basically in the same situation as you. I just started climbing and wanted to find people to climb with. This website turned out to be a pretty good tool for finding those people. It just so happens that I'm a chick and practically everyone who I climb with is a guy. It's a ratio thing I guess.
My first 'date' with a partner from this website took place in the GUnks, not as crowded as a gym but at the time I went (weekend, early fall) crowded enough that there would be plenty of people around. While I felt sure nothing would happen after having several conversations via PM with this person, I still took several precautions. I brought my cell phone with me. I left my mother specific directions as to where I was going, and I gave her the guy's cell phone number I was climbing with. I also took time throughout the day to call her when I got in areas with service. I first called her directly after I'd met him at a busy area. Most people carry bad-guy vibes, and the minute I met the guy I was climbing with, I knew he was a good person. I called her to tell her that I was okay, and after that called her every two hours or so whenever I got to the ridge where I had signals.
Besides that, I've met several people from the website, mostly at gyms. I went to an RC.com gathering where I met a lot of people, a couple of whom I've climbed with. I'd recommend going to one of those if one happens to pop up in your neck of the woods. It's a great way to get to know people in a large group. Also, once you start to meet people, they can give you character references. For instance, if I knew some people from the website had climbed with an individual before, I'd feel more trusting towards that person.
So basically my advice is this: Don't just go off into the woods with some guy you haven't met before. Also, trust your instinct. If you get a bad vibe from someone, even if it's over PM or email, trust it. And there's no such thing as too much precaution. Meet in a public place, do the cell phone thing, climb at a gym before heading out into the back country.
And don't be afraid to ask a guy who wants to climb with you if they've ever climbed with anyone from the site before. If someone just shows up out of nowhere and says they want to climb with you, it's okay to be distrustful. Not only are you trusting that person to not physically harm you in any way, you're trusting that that person knows what he's doing climbing. I've heard some nasty stories about people saying they knew more than they did.
Overall, I've ahd nothing but good experiences with the people from thsi site. That's not to say nothing bad will ever happen. Good luck with your quest for partners, and note that all of the above is my opinion, and other people may have differing opinions.
K.
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gravitytheory
Nov 20, 2003, 7:44 PM
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In short, no. Never meet anyone in person that you meet on the internet.
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krestkid
Nov 20, 2003, 9:06 PM
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I went climbing with someone I met on rc.com...he was very cool. I did joke all the way to the rock that he had a good place to hide dead bodies. I agree it is a bit scary, before I left I made sure people knew where I was going and left my cell-phone number (even though I had no reception) and gave them the guys address and phone number. I was home later than I thought and my family did get worried and called his house. Make sure people know...Be smart...we met somewhere public and I told myself if he looked too scary (or I felt awkward) then I would just leave. Hope everything goes well...
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robmcc
Nov 20, 2003, 9:54 PM
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In reply to: So basically my advice is this: Don't just go off into the woods with some guy you haven't met before. Also, trust your instinct. If you get a bad vibe from someone, even if it's over PM or email, trust it.
Don't trust it TOO much. I hear Ted Bundy (serial killer) was a real charmer.
Then there's me, probably one of the safest people you could ever climb with (IMHO). I don't warm up to people terribly quickly, so your initial "vibe" might be rather different than it would later.
I think leaving the guys info with others and subtlely making sure he knows this is a good idea. Whether or not he looks scary isn't going to get you anything other than acccosted by only non-scary looking men.
The reference idea is good, too, but only really useful if you can trace back to a person you know in real life. For example, I could point you to a couple members on this site who know me, but if you don't know them, how do you know they aren't really me? You don't.
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krestkid
Nov 20, 2003, 10:47 PM
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I was just saying if for any reason you do feel comfortable then leave. I agree make sure there is some way for people to trace things back...it helped that he lived a few minutes from where I did...and the climbing place was not too far. Be careful!
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maculated
Nov 20, 2003, 11:10 PM
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In reply to: So basically my advice is this: Don't just go off into the woods with some guy you haven't met before. Also, trust your instinct. If you get a bad vibe from someone, even if it's over PM or email, trust it. And there's no such thing as too much precaution.
Good advice. My friends all know me as the Internet queen (haven't done that nasty Internet dating thing) and ALL of my climbing partners in the past year or so have come off of this site in one form or another.
I have bailed on a few people because I didn't think I liked their phone vibe, I have bailed after a few sessions because I didn't like their real vibe.
That said, if you're smart about it and fortunate to meet people who are well established in their community (or RC.com), then you have a decent bet you'll be okay. I've never had a bad experience with anyone I chose to climb with yet. But then again, I'm also a fairly trusting soul.
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iamthewallress
Nov 21, 2003, 12:16 AM
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Many of my friends and partners are folks for whom the initial connection was through the internet. On average, I'd say it's a great way to meet people. I've had some less than great experiences too. A few times otherwise great folks have misrepresented themselves. This is more of a problem of safety when you are just starting out. I'd advise paying for some instruction or at least reading everything that you can get your hands on, so that you'll have more of an idea if the person "taking" you climbing knows what's up. I've had a couple of experiences with weird guys looking for a bit more than a climb who didn't take the hint easily, but nothing that ever felt especially dangerous in that way though.
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puppypower
Nov 21, 2003, 12:19 AM
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Thanks for all the input. Wanted to see what other people's experience has been in meeting people through this.
I think I'm pretty trusting too (being Canadian and all :lol: ). But seriously though, I was thinking about that cuz you do end up in pretty remote areas and such with pretty much strangers.
Yeah, I think the best thing is to leave as much info with family/friends, and if there are others who know the person I'm planning to climb with (but difficult cuz I haven't met/climbed with anyone from here before, so who's word do you take?).
And the good/bad vibes thing (and yes, the great Bundy example, you never know... ). The whole gut instinct thing.
Thanks a bunch people!
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iamthewallress
Nov 21, 2003, 12:36 AM
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Once you're around for a while both climbing w/ real life folks and on the internet, you'll meet people w/ whom you share mutual friends. I've headed into the bc with these folks without worry more than once. I sort of figure that if they were psycho my other friends wouldn't climb with them. It's worked OK so far.
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moabbeth
Nov 21, 2003, 2:10 AM
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In reply to: Alright, this MIGHT seem a little paranoid (I am new at this!) but wanted to get your input. So I've posted to look for new climbing partners and as a female, I was wondering if you guys feel safe to just meet whoever wherever (especially if you meet at a more public place but then end up in some remote area to climb), especially cuz they're mostly guys... Thanks!
Yes, you're paranoid. I make it a point to climb only with strangers and people I cruise the net for. I also like to pick up hitchhikers on my many long road trips to keep me company. You meet the most interesting people that way. :P
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diana
Nov 21, 2003, 2:58 AM
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In reply to: Not too long a woman joined my partner and I for a day trip, which went fine, but on the subsequent trip my partner had to back out at the last minute. Rather than make her decide based on (imo) insufficient information whether I was "safe" or not, I just suggested she invite some other people along. She did, quite possibly never realizing why I made that suggestion. I guess she'll know when she reads this. :lol: I think I'm well into the "safe" camp now.
Nope, I had no idea that's why I was supposed to invite people. :lol: But in response to puppypower, tell people who you're climbing with. And I do recommend taking someone you know with you, if for no other reason than to make sure that the new guy really can belay! "No, no, please, you go first."
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robmcc
Nov 21, 2003, 3:52 AM
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In reply to: Nope, I had no idea that's why I was supposed to invite people.
It would hardly have been a good idea for me to plant the idea that I might a less than savory character, would it? I did, after all, want you to go, so I just provided a solution in case you perceived a problem. Sneaky, ain't I. :twisted:
A little word of warning to anyone similarly inclined. Make sure when you suggest inviting someone, you emphasize that someone and somefour are different things. :P Or at least be prepared to quote guide rates for small groups.
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alpinelynx
Nov 21, 2003, 4:54 AM
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In reply to: In short, no. Never meet anyone in person that you meet on the internet.
sorry, I totally disagree. I have had a lot of fun climbing with people I've met via the internet, men and women.
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roseraie
Nov 21, 2003, 6:05 AM
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When climbing with someone I don't know well, I usually take my own car, or at least make sure I drive. It can eliminate potential shitty situations (i.e., "put out or I'm leaving you here")... a situation I know women who have been in.
Good luck. In general, the people I have met off this site have been really cool and have taught me tons. Also, the whole "20something female" angle ISN'T going to get you the kind of partners you want. Even if you mean it sarcastically, you might want to watch that. Sarcasm and the internet don't mix well.
Meg
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maculated
Nov 21, 2003, 6:39 AM
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Agreed. Where's that post about the ideal climbing partner that guy was looking for? He actually PMd me after I made a sarcastic post.
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granite_grrl
Nov 21, 2003, 3:30 PM
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With the moving around that I've done over the past couple of years I've met a lot of people from the internet to go climbing with. Most have been really great people, some I didn't really get along with, and I haven't met any that I got that nasty vibe from (gotten a couple emails I didn't like, never replyed to those).
With that said I've also always left the name, phone number and email address of the person I'm going climbing with with someone I trust.
This winter I'll be travelling and I'm going to try to line up partners through this site. I've already been in email contact with a couple of people who seem pretty cool. But again I want to talk on the phone with them and meet them in a public place before I head back to the crags with them or give them a lift any where. I'm a little worried about meeting weirdos off the internet, but at the same time I've found this site a good way to find partners in a new place.
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puppypower
Nov 21, 2003, 7:26 PM
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In reply to: Also, the whole "20something female" angle ISN'T going to get you the kind of partners you want. Even if you mean it sarcastically, you might want to watch that. Sarcasm and the internet don't mix well. Meg
Just that seeing the posts here, people seem pretty sarcastic (jaded/bitter?) and can take a joke... (I'm hoping/assuming that people are kidding/joking :roll: ).
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hyhuu
Nov 21, 2003, 7:30 PM
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My 2 cents. This poses an interesting issue. Climbers are different breed and any climbers out there have hold his or her partner's life in their hands countless number of times and vice versa. So the question of personal safety in traditional sense (i.e. violent crimes) prob doesn't apply that well here. Question of safety would prob be more appropriate directting at the level of competency of the stranger as a belayer and perhaps self-rescue ability. Appearance wise, aren't most of us kinda weird anyway? Climb on.
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kimmyt
Nov 21, 2003, 7:49 PM
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Speak for yourself. I'm perfectly normal. At least that's what my mom always told me when I asked her why all the kids on the playground looked at me funny......
:?
K.
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roseraie
Nov 21, 2003, 8:03 PM
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In reply to: Just that seeing the posts here, people seem pretty sarcastic (jaded/bitter?) and can take a joke... (I'm hoping/assuming that people are kidding/joking :roll: ).
Yeah, the people who post regularly probably "get" your sarcasm, but there are thousands of users here, and, as maculated's example proves, there will definitely be guys who think you're calling out to them to teach you to climb and, ahem, other things. I've gotten those messages too.
Just be picky who you meet off the internet, and be careful. I e-mailed with a guy I climbed with off this site for upwards of two months, and it turned out very well. BE PICKY, AND CAREFUL! Good luck.
Meg
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the_pirate
Nov 21, 2003, 8:07 PM
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The internet is great.
I meet all my victims, err.....um, partners here..... :lol:
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robmcc
Nov 21, 2003, 8:45 PM
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In reply to: Yeah, the people who post regularly probably "get" your sarcasm, but there are thousands of users here, and, as maculated's example proves, there will definitely be guys who think you're calling out to them to teach you to climb and, ahem, other things. I've gotten those messages too.
Why do I never get those messages?!?
Anybody out there want to teach me to climb and, ahem, other things? Guys need not apply.
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climbinggirl33
Nov 21, 2003, 9:02 PM
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I moved to Seattle last spring and have met a lot of climbers via this site and others. I always try to meet people first in a gym . . . which I've found limits who's willing to meet/climb with me (I mean, everyone would rather be outside right). Hoping I have better luck in the winter . . .
Now that I know my way around the area a bit more, I've met people out at local crags - because I know the area and feel safe. I always bring my own car . . .just use common sense and listen to your gut!
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puppypower
Nov 21, 2003, 10:04 PM
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[quote="roseraie]Yeah, the people who post regularly probably "get" your sarcasm, but there are thousands of users here, and, as maculated's example proves, there will definitely be guys who think you're calling out to them to teach you to climb and, ahem, other things. I've gotten those messages too.
Just be picky who you meet off the internet, and be careful. I e-mailed with a guy I climbed with off this site for upwards of two months, and it turned out very well. BE PICKY, AND CAREFUL! Good luck.
Meg
Thanks. Ummm... Would you have any suggestions about how to "pick"???
It's like all I have to go on is what they've said and maybe check out some of their postings. And actually (gawd, hope this doesn't jinx me now) haven't gotten any of "those messages". I mean the best I can probably do is talk to them on the phone, meet them in a public place, and leave info with friends.
.
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moabbeth
Nov 22, 2003, 12:55 AM
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In reply to: [Thanks. Ummm... Would you have any suggestions about how to "pick"??? .
It's pretty easy. Ask them about their history, how long they've been climbing, what grade they are confortable leading at, what their level is in trad/sport, throw in a couple safety questions for good measure. Arrange to meet them at a crag so if they turn out to be b*llshitting you once you get there and don't know how to tie a figure 8 then you're free to bail. Chances are 90 pct they'll be able to back up their words with their skills on the rock. Not that many people would spray overrated abilities to a newbie cause a newbie wouldn't know how to get them out of a bad situation should it arise.
And don't fret so much about partners. Climbers are good people. People on the site are good people. Just get out on the rock and climb.
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robmcc
Nov 22, 2003, 4:06 PM
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In reply to: And don't fret so much about partners. Climbers are good people. People on the site are good people. Just get out on the rock and climb.
I was gonna let that slide, but then I finally broke down and read the "Why is PTPP still here" thread that I'd been ignoring.
Climbers are not, a priori, good people. Nor are people on this site good people just because they're on the site. Climbers are people, and people come in all flavors. I don't buy that there's anything in climbing that would deter bad people from participating. I think it's just common sense and realism to assume that if there are people in the general population who you couldn't trust yourself to, there are certainly people in the climbing population you can't trust yourself to. Odds are good you'll never meet one, climbing or otherwise, but that's no reason not to stay safe.
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timstich
Nov 23, 2003, 12:16 AM
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A few weeks back I drove up to Ft. Collins to have drinks with another climber that I knew from the internet. Sitting there at the bar of the Rio Grande, I started to get bored waiting for the guy to show up. This young woman was also sitting at the bar waiting for her friends and we began to talk. I mentioned I was waiting for a guy.
"Is it for business?"
"No. We are both climbers."
"Did you bring any flowers?"
"Ah, no."
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enigma
Nov 23, 2003, 5:56 AM
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In reply to: [quote="roseraie]Yeah, the people who post regularly probably "get" your sarcasm, but there are thousands of users here, and, as maculated's example proves, there will definitely be guys who think you're calling out to them to teach you to climb and, ahem, other things. I've gotten those messages too. Just be picky who you meet off the internet, and be careful. I e-mailed with a guy I climbed with off this site for upwards of two months, and it turned out very well. BE PICKY, AND CAREFUL! Good luck. Meg
Thanks. Ummm... Would you have any suggestions about how to "pick"???
It's like all I have to go on is what they've said and maybe check out some of their postings. And actually (gawd, hope this doesn't jinx me now) haven't gotten any of "those messages". I mean the best I can probably do is talk to them on the phone, meet them in a public place, and leave info with friends.
.
Well I would try these ideas first, take your own car, try to meet first at a public place ex.Starbucks, talk to the potential partner for a while, and try not to plan on climbing in a remote area initially where it will take some time to leave if you want to, if you get a creepy feeling at any time, leave the situation.
Also I would recommend to try to climb in a group setting if possible as well.
Do Not rely on the fact that someone is on rc.com or any other climbing group as automatically safe either.
Try to climb in some areas which are more crowded with climbs nearby , a top rope wall or a sport areas.
If you are planning on a weekend of climbing try to find camping areas where there are other climbers, or campers are around close by.
Keep your wits about, try not to put yourself in a situation where you will become more vunerable. :idea:
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moabbeth
Nov 25, 2003, 1:58 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: And don't fret so much about partners. Climbers are good people. People on the site are good people. Just get out on the rock and climb. I was gonna let that slide, but then I finally broke down and read the "Why is PTPP still here" thread that I'd been ignoring. Climbers are not, a priori, good people. Nor are people on this site good people just because they're on the site. Climbers are people, and people come in all flavors. I don't buy that there's anything in climbing that would deter bad people from participating. I think it's just common sense and realism to assume that if there are people in the general population who you couldn't trust yourself to, there are certainly people in the climbing population you can't trust yourself to. Odds are good you'll never meet one, climbing or otherwise, but that's no reason not to stay safe.
I meant it in a lighthearted kind of way since she seemed to be kinda stressing a lot over the topic. Of course not all climbers are good, but in my experience a solid 97 percent of all climbers I've met are. As far as PTPP goes, I stay out of that fray. In the 13 months I've been on this site I've never had a lewd, scary or perverted PM from someone I didn't know (once I know them well, then it can be another story :wink: :lol: ). Overall, it tends to be really positive, good people.
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fyreflii
Dec 4, 2003, 2:32 AM
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Just to add my personal experience, I've met some awesome people from this site. I could be taken advantage of so easily as an 18 year old girl in SoCal, but I've never once felt threatened or uneasy around anyone I've met through rc.com. Last guy I met from came and picked me up every weekend from school to climb with his friends at JTree and stay at his house, and then drove me back so school on Sunday night. Now he and his wife are letting my boyfriend live in their guesthouse rent free because money got tight. I'm there every weekend hanging out with them, we've become part of the family.
I'm not saying everyone is totally trustworthy, but I've had nothing but great experiences and made nothing but good friends from this site.
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curt
Dec 4, 2003, 3:16 AM
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In reply to: And don't be afraid to ask a guy who wants to climb with you if they've ever climbed with anyone from the site before. If someone just shows up out of nowhere and says they want to climb with you, it's okay to be distrustful. Not only are you trusting that person to not physically harm you in any way, you're trusting that that person knows what he's doing climbing. I've heard some nasty stories about people saying they knew more than they did.
Curt
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missedyno
Dec 5, 2003, 2:14 PM
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it's okay to tell someone you don't want to climb with them.
trust me, it's very awkward, and you may feel "bad" about it... but feeling sorry for someone (someone without a partner) is not a good enough reason to put your life in their hands.
i've met and climbed with a few people from this site.... PM'd a lot first, some i never ended up meeting - didn't feel right. follow your instinct.
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spider_woman
Dec 16, 2003, 2:33 PM
Post #36 of 41
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For the most part I think it is relatively safe, I have yet to hear anything about it being unsafe. If you're going to meet someone from the site, check out their profile, and their posts. Ask probing questions (not an interrogation) using your pm's and meet in a public place like a gym or busy crag. Most of the time I think climbers are cool, hopefully you and no one else will not have any problems finding a partner. Good luck!
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calamity_chk
Dec 16, 2003, 6:08 PM
Post #37 of 41
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Registered: Apr 23, 2002
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i've probably met close to 100 users from this site and have never felt threatened/scared. one user made me feel slightly uncomfortable, but it was at a gathering so i just rounded up another partner for the next day.
as always, though - keep your wits about you and go with your gut feeling. if something doesnt feel right, dont question the feeling. it also helps to pm users who've climbed with him/her. i would tend to do that on longer trips just because i didnt want to waste my time/money to spend the weekend with a total jerk.
they used to have a rating thingie so that you could rate people that you've met. this was helpful because you could look at a user's profile and pm anyone who'd rated the person with a low score to get the skinny. generally, people were rated low because they slammed somebody in community or something retarded.
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jumpingrock
Jan 5, 2004, 5:10 AM
Post #38 of 41
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Something I don't think anybody has mentioned yet is start climbing below your limit to start. Maybe a couple easier climbs so that you feel comfortable with the person belaying you b4 you start taking massive whippers. Or are starting a massive multi-pitch.
Just my 2 cents. I have only met one person so far who I climbed with from the internet and it went really well.
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monkeygirl
Jan 7, 2004, 6:29 PM
Post #39 of 41
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Registered: Oct 22, 2003
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There are some really great suggestions here, some of which I will take on practicing (meeting at a gym or for coffee). I've trusted my gut thus far and haven't been disappointed and met my regular partner through a site (who is absolutely great).
I follow these general guidelines: Google them. Talk by phone. Leave info with family. Definitely take your own car no matter if carpooling makes sense. Know the location that you'll be climbing. Start on easy climbs.
Thanks for bringing the subject up!
Happy Climbing!
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robmcc
Jan 7, 2004, 6:49 PM
Post #40 of 41
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Registered: Apr 1, 2003
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In reply to: T've trusted my gut thus far and haven't been disappointed and met my regular partner through a site (who is absolutely great).
A roll of the dice. I invited someone from this site not too long ago. Talked on the phone and I just got a feeling she wasn't going to show. She didn't. I can only assume she "went with her gut", which happened to be dead wrong, but hey, I'll take it as a learning experience. Never again will I use my serial killer voice and suggest she bring a big tarp and lots of duct tape.
I think the simple fact is that MOST people are good people, so you can have a bad selection algorithm and not get bitten.
I think if you _really_ want to avoid the 1 in 10,000 or so (guessing) bad climbers out there, you start slow and build trust. Go to the gym. Climb with the new person in a group setting, etc. Foolproof? Course not, but it's kind of like putting the club on your car. Pretty easy to defeat, but you're no longer the easy target.
That's where I am with my current partners. We climbed in the gym, then outside, etc, etc, and I would trust them with anything...for that matter, I already have... and without presuming to speak for them, I'm pretty sure that's reciprocated.
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lehrski
Jan 17, 2004, 4:02 AM
Post #41 of 41
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Registered: Aug 29, 2003
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Along the same line, I met a guy this summer while I was cragging. I climbed with him several times and we both have a common interest in mountaineering, so he asked if I'd like to go on a longer alpine trip with him. I agreed initially, but kept getting a really bad feeling about him even though he seems like a nice guy so I bailed on him. He's asked several times since about other trips. How do I explain to him that even though I've been on trips with other people (he knows some of my friends) that I don't feel comfortable in the backcountry with him?
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