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roclymber
Apr 7, 2002, 10:34 PM
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For about 2 weeks now, I've been a veget. and have consciously made the decision for dietary reasons. I do know that I have to eat nuts, and fish, eggs, and take some protein supplements, but is there anything else that I would be missing. Also too, is there a downside about being a veget. So far, everyone has said that it has been good idea, as long as I take care of the protein aspect of it.
Im not a complete vegian. I still eat eggs, and fish - just as an fyi.
matt
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pianomahnn
Apr 7, 2002, 10:57 PM
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I gathererd from what you wrote that you're only vegetarian (not really) for health reasons, which leads me to believe you would'nt have any moral problems with eating some good red meat.
Don't cancel this out of your diet. If things are eaten in moderation, it will be allright for you. There is a reason why humans are naturally omnivourous and not born as herbivores or carnivores.
If you're eating fish you're not a vegetarian. Vegetarians eat nothing but plant matter.
A few years back my girlfriend tried the whole vegetarian thing, and it screwed with her system; it just isn't healthy, especially not for athletes, where proteins and amino acids essential in rebuilding tissues are found in meats.
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pushfurther
Apr 7, 2002, 11:22 PM
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congrats on making your decision.
that said, i didn't let my ancestors climb to the top of the food chain so i could eat like a rabbit. give me a steak. a thick, juicy one, served medium rare..mmmmm.
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maculated
Apr 8, 2002, 12:18 AM
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Having been an animal science major and also having lived with a strict vegetarian (as in NO meat, fish, chicken, or otherwise), there is something to be said for vegetarianism.
I live a pseudo-vegetarian lifestyle because I live with my roommate who would rather not have meat in the house, and when I go out with her, I order meat-free dishes so that she can share them. I'm in the best shape of my life, I'm not prone to ills, and it really forces you to be health conscious: have you eaten enough protein? Getting those veggies and fruits? Enough water?
It is also MUCH better for the environment. Grazing animals wreak havoc and are the main reason the rainforests and other wilderness areas are being destroyed. Watershed issues, waste issues, erosion, etc, would be lessened a great deal if everyone restricted their meat consumption.
One thing to be very careful of, however, is to not restrict your dairy and carb consumption. My roommate is a little . . . heavy because she doesn't like vegetables or fruits. That really limits your dietary choices and can pack on the pounds (same thing happened to my sister and to me when I first started the psuedo-veggie lifestyle).
That said, a nice, THICK, juicy steak once in a while is a great thing.
And I say this with a clear conscience, because as an animal science major, I got to slaughter first-hand every kind of livestock and process it. I know where those animals come from, I know what happens when they kill them, and I know how they get to the store. *I* personally have no problem with that.
[ This Message was edited by: maculated on 2002-04-07 17:26 ]
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saxonz
Apr 8, 2002, 1:16 AM
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I've noticed that in my yoga students the ones who are complete vegans develope long, soft strong muscles with a very smmoth tone, Yet the meat and dairy crew are generally stiffer in the joints, more prone to injury and can develope "knotty" muscle fibre. They also are less happy when they arive.
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miagi
Apr 8, 2002, 1:21 AM
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I find people who are vegetarians seem to be a little bit on the skinny side. I personally wouldnt be one. Its sorta like a twisted cycle of life. Instead of hunting our food, we breed and butcher them. The same thing is common though. In nature, its inevitable to not kill and eat another animal. Like I said, its a process of life. But for us, a somewhat "twisted" one.
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roclymber
Apr 8, 2002, 1:28 AM
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Alright, lemme get a couple of things straight here.
I love meat, i mean, im firm believer in veal, (please dont hate me for this, or post negative responses, but hey, veal is yummy in my tummy - and so is a baby back BBQ RIBS!!!! )
And second, I am a vegetarian. There are many types of vegetarians... a Vegian is someone who eatens nothing evenly remotely close to meat. no milk, no cheese, no eggs, etc.
I drink milk - lots of it. i love eggs, and fish. I just exlcuded all red meat from my body, and pork to.
There isnt anything in these meats that i cant get out of fish, and from plants that have protein along with supplements that also need the proteins I need.
I've weigheed both the pros and cons to not eating meat, and seriously the pros seriously out-number the cons. I havent had meat for two weeks (three actually, but i had mcdonalds on the way back from a climb, cuz i was really hungry. that tasted nasty for some reason, but it was the only meat, if you want to call it meat....that i had eaten all week)
I do plan in the future to return to eating meat again. But for now, and maybe for a couple of years, Ill see how this vegetarian thing works out.
I forgot one thing too. Mac pointed this out, but I really want to emphasize this. Being a veget. really forces you to become orginial when it comes time to eat. In general, vegets. tend to be healthier, but someone dun like vegetables, or fruits, so they remain thick. Ive been on a strict If-I-Cant-Pronounce-It-I-Dont-Eat-It diet. For example, pepsi one - contains phenyphanline or something like that.. That will rack your body up.
IT IS VERY POSSIBLE TO ATTAIN ALL NECESSARY PROTEINS FROM NON_MEAT PRODUCTS. you just have to vary them, because there are different types of proteins. all are found in the foods im eating now. there really is nothing that im missing out on - 'sides the taste on my tongue
err...yeah, I dont eat poultry either
[ This Message was edited by: roclymber on 2002-04-07 18:35 ]
[ This Message was edited by: roclymber on 2002-04-07 19:56 ]
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wallhammer
Apr 8, 2002, 2:23 AM
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hey, if we are not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat! i could never give it up. i take eating way more serious than climbing, hence my small spare tire. i know little about the health aspect (always get conflicting reports) but i sure know about the taste aspect. give me that new york cut please! i have no problem with vegetarians if they dont cop an "im better than you for doing this attitude" or try and make me feel guilty for my eating preferences
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gooch
Apr 8, 2002, 2:32 AM
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I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to become a vegatarian!
Sorry but I couldn't resist.
Thouh as Jules says in Pulp Fiction " My girlfriend is a vegetarian, which pretty much makes me a vegatraian; but I do enjoy a good burger now and then"
and hey SUSHI Rocks
Namaste!
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maculated
Apr 8, 2002, 2:47 AM
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Okay, let's get this straight:
No vegetarian eats meat.
If you eat eggs, you're an ovo-
If you drink milk or eat dairy, you're a lacto -
I think there's probably a fish term.
Most veggies are ovo-lacto
VEGANs (spelled that way) avoid any animal matter.
Fruitarians eat only things that have fallen from a tree or bush. (Notting Hill ref)
If you eat chicken, then JUST SAY you don't eat red meat! AHHHHHHHH!
Also, Pork IS a red meat.
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roclymber
Apr 8, 2002, 3:00 AM
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alright, so if i dun eat poultry, and all red meat, but still eggs, etc. what does that make me?
and, are you sure its VegAn. i read somewhere its vegian, but im prolly wrong.
thx
matt
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maculated
Apr 8, 2002, 3:39 AM
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roc - I'm sure it's vegan
And if you only eat red meat - raw, it makes you a wild carnivore!
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daisuke
Apr 8, 2002, 4:29 AM
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the only problem with being a veg can be anemia, nothing like blood as the source of iron, ppl say spinach is the way to go but there's nothing like good ol red meat to satisfy your iron needs.
show me the beef!!!! and pork... and chicken...
mmmm
D
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bodhi
Apr 8, 2002, 6:45 AM
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I am a vegetarian for quite a while now and I can't say I've found any negative aspects of it. I still eat a lot of fish though...Just watch out for the Ca your bones need.
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bulldog
Apr 8, 2002, 12:10 PM
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I'm an omnivore.
If I had the disclipline and didn't love the yummy carcasses, I'd go veggie.
But, I work with a couple of very strict vegans. No meat, no dairy, nothing that has any animal by-products (ie, no gelatin, lecithin, etc...). Their diet is very heavy in soy with fruits, veggies, and nuts/grains thrown in. I admire their disclipline in maintaining this diet, but, I'll have to admit, none of them seem very healthy. They are vegans for moral reasons much more than health reasons, and you find a lot of that in my line of work.
What always makes me laugh (at least in their cases - not in all cases), it that they are always eating stuff that is specifically made to mimic meat. Things like fake peperonni made out of soy, fake turkey (tofurkey), fake bacon bits, etc... Just seems a little ironic to me.
I will not buy into the argument that vegetarianism is better for the environment. Anyone who has done any amount of work in agriculture knows how hard farming is on the soil. Responsible farming is the key - whether you are farming plants or animals. Third world examples of clear-cutting does not present a valid argument against raising livestock; the argument speaks to economic and social conditions, as well as geographical limitations, within said region.
Bulldog
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gilthanass
Apr 8, 2002, 3:19 PM
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I am an Ictho-Avia-Mammalia-crustacea-lacto-ovo vegetarian, and DAMN proud of it
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quart
Apr 8, 2002, 3:40 PM
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Vegetarianism is a great way to show you care about the planet, as well as a way of being more conscious about what you put in your body(avoiding the fast food trap). The only real negative is making sure you ARE more conscious, otherwise it's easy to become deficient in things like iron, B-vitamins and others. It's also easy to gain weight. I've been a complete vegetarian and mostly vegan for a couple of years(no meat, fish, poultry, eggs, etc...) and have been strong and athletic that whole time. I haven't suffered in any sports and it's made me feel better about my place in life. That said, it's a totally personal decision and probably isn't right for everyone.
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dupree
Apr 8, 2002, 3:47 PM
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SALAD is what food eats.
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lostangel
Apr 8, 2002, 3:54 PM
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You can still be a veritarian if you eat fish because it is not a red meat, what you will be lacking is vitamin K, you can goto a health food store and purchase a suppliment for this.. Being a vegitarian is a good diet to lose weight on because you are minus a good bit of carbs, which will add tone to your body.
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jt512
Apr 8, 2002, 3:55 PM
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Roclymer, you don't "have to" eat fish, eggs, or protein supplements. A vegetarian diet without those foods would still be protein sufficient.
Note to xgretax and other vegetarians: If you don't eat dairy, you should take a daily calcium supplement. It is theoretically possible to get sufficient calcium from a non-dairy diet, but few vegans do in practice.
Note to xgretax and other vegans: You have no natural source of vitamin B12 in your diet, so you must obtain this essential nutrient from non-natural sources, which basically means supplements. Fermented foods, blue-green algae, and other non-animal foods rumored to naturally contain B12, don't. PM me if you have any questions.
Note to everybody: a daily multivitamin is a good idea, too.
-Jay, a nutrition research scientist
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lostangel
Apr 8, 2002, 4:04 PM
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Does anyone else have any good clothing links?? I have gone though thelinks on RC.com but NO OFFENCE to the Coders cause yall do a Great job! but its like finding a needle in a haystack because no one really put a description down, and everyother link doesnt work.. So does anyone have any other good links?
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camhead
Apr 8, 2002, 6:55 PM
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Maculated said:
"Grazing animals wreak havoc and are the main reason the rainforests and other wilderness areas are being destroyed. Watershed issues, waste issues, erosion, etc, would be lessened a great deal if everyone restricted their meat consumption."
Livestock is NOT the primary cause of environmental destruction. As a professional wilderness guide, horseback rider, and occassional tag-a-long on Southern Utah cattle drives, I have a serious problem with this mentallity.
First of all, most meat that we eat comes from urban stockyards, pumped full of hormones and cheap feed for our eating pleasure. Very few cattle, and certainly NO pigs, chickens, or turkeys that we eat have been tearing up riparia in our national forests.
Furthermore, I fail to see logic in a boycott of the cattle industry for this purpose. Mining and logging cause infinitely more drastic and permanent damage to the land, but are we boycotting these industries??? As far as damage by livestock goes, our forests are in better shape than they were in the first half of this century. The most dangerous and permanent scars are results of mines (such as the cyanide filled lake outside Butte Montana).
There are many reasons to avoid meat. It is bad for you; it is inefficient to produce; it is possible and healthy to live without; its industries are inhumane. Wilderness destruction, however, is not one of them.
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camhead
Apr 8, 2002, 9:25 PM
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Hey Greta,
Don't forget the best example of responsible range management: Heidi Redd's Dugout Ranch, smack dab in the middle of some place called Indian Creek.
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cedk
Apr 8, 2002, 10:27 PM
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Give up that unhealthy hormone and antibiotic infested meat and get yourself a nice healthy pesticide and herbicide laden genetically engineered salad.
Do it. You'll live longer and climb stronger.
Yeah, maybe not.
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vaness
Apr 8, 2002, 10:32 PM
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Is this suposed to be in the technique and traning forum? Or is it just me?
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squirrelgirl
Apr 8, 2002, 10:55 PM
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A friend of mine is a vegetarian. She still eats dairy products, but I'm not sure about eggs. I don't think she eats fish though. At this point she's kinda pale and skinny. However, she's still got some growing to do. So, this may just be temporary.
Me? I'm not a vegetarian myself. I like eating meat. Besides, we're omnivores by nature, and suddenly turning into an herbavore doesn't sit well with me personally and my several million years of evolution.
But, as long as you make sure you're getting enough of the proper nutrients, you should be just fine.
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maculated
Apr 9, 2002, 12:00 AM
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I actually agree with Camhead. Management is a huge concern in most livestock setups. My point was more about how much it destroys the land in terms of space and vegetation. All those cows on all those hills here in California, acres and acres and acres are - at the very least - eroding the soil. That's the kind of thing I'm thinking about.
Oh yeah, one more thing: cows aren't actually RAISED in stockyards. They are brought there for the final stage of feeding and slaughter. It's called 'finishing.'
And you know, all this knowledge still doesn't bother me that much, I'm still a meat-eater, so I can't be TOTALLY sold on everything I'm saying.
[ This Message was edited by: maculated on 2002-04-08 17:06 ]
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roclymber
Apr 9, 2002, 6:52 AM
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Alright, has the head honcho of this post (it being my idea.) I personally dun care about the environmental aspect of being a vegetarian. I'm still a firm believer in eating red meat, just now, I dun eat it.
Jay, i think you said this, but I know that I can get all the protein out of normal vegetables people eat everyday. I dun think the rest of the world knows this. By eating a nice variety of plants, a person will consume the proportional amount of protein that they need. As I said, there isnt anything that red meat has someone cant eat a plant and get the same thing.
But I still have to eat fish. Not so much of a have to eat scenario, but I love fish. Plus too, it is VERY good for you. A lot of fish are lean (They dun stand still for 20 hours a day like cattle, and pigs ) and they taste yummy in my tummy.
So while im prolly not an official vegetarian, im pretty close. And if people could start answering this question. Are they any downsides to this if someone eats a variety of stuff. Some of you have mentioned weight gain becuz lack of eating good foods, but is there anything else?
thx
matt
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mountainrat
Apr 9, 2002, 11:28 AM
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Just the protien and calcium are concerns for me- but I'm not a very good vegan, either. Sesame seeds and tofu are great sources of the above mentioned concerns. My personal experience is that red meat makes me feel sluggish and slow, and dairy DOES stiffen my joints. Kudos to Maculated for several very well informed and adroitly explained posts.
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rockwomyn
Apr 9, 2002, 1:19 PM
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You CAN have a completely, healthy meat free or even dairy free diet. If you are really serious about it do some research don't just eat carrots and apples and wonder why you look and feel like crap. There are tons are veggies alternative these days to go veg and feel good. Check out your local co-op for meat alternatives and buy lots of fresh veggies & fruits. I was a vegetarian for about 5 years and now will eat fish, some poultry and cheese once in a while. There are numerous protein powders made from soy or even just veggies that you can toss in a blender with a soy milk and frozen banana (my fave)and get carbs, protein and a smigde of fat for a fast meal. Just open your eyes, be creative and watch out for too much fat, a vegatarian downfall.....Cheese! So to all you negative people who have been programmed into thinking you have to eat meat, you are sadly mistaken. I also am athletic aside from climbing....I lift weights 5 days a week along with running and cycling 5+ plus times a week. I feel great and I am mostly meat free. We all have the ability to choice....just choice wisely!!!!
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tavs
Apr 9, 2002, 7:50 PM
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Vegan for just over five years, veggie for six months before that (and, for the record, vegetarian does indeed mean no fish): I've found no downsides and many upsides. But as others have noted, you need to really think about your diet (then again, so should all people). As a fish, dairy and egg eater, you should have very few problem or concerns really. Many of the things vegetarians or vegans have to be concerned with (calcium, iron, B12), you are still getting from your regular diet, though I agree with Jay that a multi-vitamin is a good idea for everyone. I lost some weight in the first year (it was there to be lost, and most of it came from cutting out fatty meat, dairy/ice cream, cakes/cookies/etc), but otherwise my weight's been stable since then at what I consider to be pretty close to my ideal. I climb hard, I've lifted/run/played sports, backpacked a lot--all as a vegan, all without being limited by being vegan. So I can't see any reason why you cutting out red meat and poultry would be much of an issue.
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toprope_media
Apr 20, 2002, 4:11 AM
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I have been a vegan for 12 years and highly recommend it if you feel it is right for you. Some people can't pull it off. There are so many foods out there without animal content, there is sooooo much variety. 12 years ago, it sucked. Couldn't find food anywhere. I remember going to Cape Cod and being forced to eat cold beans from the can. Now, with the help of the internet, you can reduce the problems with travel.
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tyger
May 3, 2002, 1:42 PM
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Just wishing to clarify:
Vegan: No animal flesh, or any product gain from an animal, regardless of how.
Vegetarian: No animal flesh. Many argue as to whether fish is breaking the "rules" or not.
I am a lifelong vege (parents were hippies). Apart from the decent bit of tuna I am 100% vegetarian (sod the rules!).
I suffer no mineral or vitamin deficiencies and am in a very high... no wait, decent state of fitness. I fully recommend it as a way of living. Make sure it is vege - tarian ie: you have to eat those vegetables.
For any endurance activity a vegetarian lifestyle is a good one. A bit of yoga and lots of water too and you'll feel a million bucks.
Tyger.
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hunter
May 6, 2002, 10:26 PM
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I'm a Proud member of PETA.
That's People Eating Tasty Animals.
Seriously though, I have no problems with folks who don't care for meat as long as they don't have a problem with me eating it. As far as the health issues go I think it's been pretty well shown that Veggie's can be perfectly healthy as long as they are super concious of their diet.
When I get hungry I go out and get my supper from the woods... and it ain't gonna be mushrooms
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jt512
May 7, 2002, 2:15 AM
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If anything, Hunter, vegetarians are healthier, and they don't have to be "super careful" about their diet.
-Jay (a nutrition research scientist)
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-05-06 19:16 ]
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jt512
May 7, 2002, 3:06 AM
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Actually, a "vegan" + fish diet might be the best of both worlds.
-Jay
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hunter
May 7, 2002, 3:07 PM
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JT512,
Ok, I'll take your word for it seeing as how it's in your area of expertise.
Still, I'll let the deer & rabbits eat the veggies, then I'll eat them. Same thing, no?
Hunter
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iclimbtoo
May 7, 2002, 3:13 PM
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I say to have any vegitarian try a filet mignon. if that doesn't switch them to normal, then I don't know what will!
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sharmagod
May 7, 2002, 3:16 PM
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I cant go into the specifics of why but it is definetly a good thing.
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boretribe
May 7, 2002, 3:39 PM
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I've been a vegetarian for 2.5 years (no mammals for 17+) and feel great. I quit eating meat for ethical reasons and don't miss it at all (except maybe fish).
Good, healthy and tasty vegetarian protein sources are becoming easier easier to get each year so I don't find getting a well balanced diet to be difficult at all. It's also cheaper than a meat based diet.
If it's for health reasons only, I don't really see a reason to quit eating meat outright. As JT512 said fish + vegan is probably best.
The main dietary problem I see a lot of vegetarians get into is too much cheese and butter. This kind of defeats the purpose of not eating meat for health reasons.
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jt512
May 7, 2002, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Still, I'll let the deer & rabbits eat the veggies, then I'll eat them. Same thing, no?
No. Fruits and vegetables are rich in antioxidants that are protective against heart disease and cancer. Animal foods are not.
Mom was right. Eat your veggies.
-Jay
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mikedano
May 7, 2002, 5:26 PM
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I once met a woman who was a vegan and had never seen Star Wars.
What kind of a life is that?
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hunter
May 7, 2002, 5:46 PM
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JT512,
Mom used to say "You are what you eat." At which time I was known to have said "Well I sure don't want to be a dang fruit or vegitable!"
Kidding aside, a well balanced diet consisting of natural foods works for me. I prefer to know where my food came from and what it ate or was fertilized with. I remain very suspicious of most commercial products. Take commercially raised chickens for example: I've seen a lot of natually raised chickens in my day and not one of them had yellow skin, was fat, or was "Fryer size" in 6 weeks. Makes one wonder just what they feed them things.
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clanalbania
May 7, 2002, 6:49 PM
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I have been a lacto-ove vegetarian since birth. At age 15 I became a vegan (It means nothing that comes from animals, only plants, as noted by a couple of people above). I am not strict vegan though. When I am not at home, or am in the mountains I do eat cheese or yogurt periodically. But for the most part I am vegan.
I have never noticed any lack of strength and I am active, climbing, mountaineering, cycling and back-country skiing. I ate this diet as a teenager and was cycling 100 to 200 miles a week.
The benefits. Ex-meat eaters tell me they have never felt so good after switching. There is a huge decline in the typical American disease processes, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc.
Finally there is no real concern for proteins as long as one is eating a diet that doesnt' boor you for its lack of variety. Lentils and rice cooked together make a complete protein for example, satisfying all the bodies needs for that day. The only issue that has been raised periodically is the B12 issue. Eat a yogurt once in awhile though and it is no problem.
You got to do this though only if you want to, otherwise it won't stick.
ClanAlbania
[ This Message was edited by: clanalbania on 2002-05-07 11:52 ]
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sugarbaby
May 7, 2002, 6:57 PM
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i've been a vegetarian for almost 8 years. "ovo-lacto" as they say. i eat eggs and dairy, and no meat at all.
if you know what you're doing, you won't be sickly, or thinner because of it, i'm healthier now than i was when i ate meat.
but if you're smart about it, it's pretty easy, and a very healthy lifestyle
it's great for some people, some hate it
its up to you
jenna
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iclimbtoo
May 7, 2002, 7:29 PM
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No, Star Wars!!!??? Deprived I tell you, deprived...
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sugarbaby
May 7, 2002, 8:08 PM
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say WHAT??
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jt512
May 17, 2002, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
i've found that the amount of protein or the protein sources used to compensate for the complex proteins you get from meats, are
much higher in carbs...
That much is true.
Quote:...which conflicts with your body's ability to breakdown/absorb the types of protiens you actually need.
That is false.
Quote:
you can eat a brick of tofu or you can have a an 8 oz piece of red meat. your body will
have an easier time extracting the proteins from the meat without all the carbs getting in the way. you'll stay trimmer too.
And that is just bullshit.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-05-17 09:32 ]
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fiend
May 17, 2002, 4:51 PM
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I had a friend who was vegan for several years.
He got into mountaineering.
He eats meat now.
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talons05
May 17, 2002, 5:07 PM
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Humans are not genetically disposed to subsist purely on vegetable and other "non-meat" matter. Just look at your teeth - that is, if they haven't rotted out yet... Also, why is it "morally wrong" to eat meat? Because it was once a living thing? How is that different from eating vegetables? Weren't they once alive as well?
A.W.
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fiend
May 17, 2002, 5:25 PM
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I believe in vegetarianism (is that a word?) on the standpoint that humans tend to over-consume everything they use. Because some people feel it is necessary to eat meat at every meal every day. If there are those who are willing to go without to compensate what little they can then I applaud their efforts 100%
Personally I don't really like meat all that much and only eat it once or twice a week these days.
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c_plante
May 17, 2002, 9:13 PM
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The way I see it, if we were meant to eat only plant matter, our entire tooth structure would be molars, and we wouldn't need those nice and sharp front teeth right? So if we've got those nice and sharp teeth, that means that they're for tearing and rendering and cutting of flesh. Hmmm, meat.
Christian
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jt512
May 17, 2002, 9:24 PM
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The way I see it, what we were "meant" to eat, might not be the healthiest diet.
-Jay
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climberstephen
May 17, 2002, 9:55 PM
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A short lesson in Anthropology:
Humans have clearly evolved to be Omnivorous, meaning we eat "all," both meat and plant. The two facts clearly supporting this are:
1) Our teeth. Herbivores (cows, deer and other animal vegetarians) have all flat teeth, sort of like all molars, which are used to grind the fiberousness of plant matter. Carnivores (cats, dogs, t-rex) have long K9s for griping food, sharp incisors to cut flesh, and the "molars" are sharp, again to grip and tear flesh. Omnivorous, such as us humans and pigs, have both K9s and incisors for meat consumption, but we also have flat back teeth to grind up plant fibers. Thus we have a clear mix of meat and plant eating teeth, which are clearly differently evolved from herbivores and carnivores.
2) Our digestion track. Herbivores have long, involved digestion tracks (cows have 7 stomachs) to be able to digest the long fibrous plants they eat. Carnivores have very short tracks and extremely short intestines so they don't have meat matter rotting inside them. If you've ever seen wild cat poop, it's easy to see how fast the food went through them since it's one package of bones, hair, and some flesh. Again, us humans, being omnivorous, have a track somewhere in between. It gives the length we need to digest some plant matter, but is short to digest meat without it "going bad" while inside us.
Thus, we humans are evolved to be both plant and meat eaters. Of course, this has no bearing on what one thinks is right or wrong. That's for you to decide.
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sharmagod
May 18, 2002, 12:29 AM
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There is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian.I say "go for it" if thats the way you want to eat.Nothing wrong with it whats so ever!!!
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bulldog
May 21, 2002, 7:38 AM
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Wow, long thread.
First, dogs are not strict carnivores - tooth structure or not (this is directed toward the arthropology lesson a few posts up from this one). Cats, however, are. This is my area of expertise.
And when the heck did cows evolve to having 7 stomachs??? Unless things have changed dramatically since I was in Vet School, cows have 4 - rumen, reticulum, omasum, abomasum.
Second, I feel key to this discussion is the degree of attention most Vegetarians and Vegans pay to their diet and lifestyle. I'm not convinced that strict avoidance of meat products is the specific key to a healthy body, Instead, I would argue that most people who are dedicated enough to become vegans or veggies pay more time and attention to not only what they ingest but also to their overall health (exercise, lifestyle, etc...).
I really don't think I'm unhealthy because of the carcasses I ingest. I'm unhealthy because I work crazy hours, sleep very little, and ingest whatever passes my way whenever I possibly can. This coupled with a steady diet of caffeine and simple sugars to keep me awake and working. Perhaps if I ate only a vegan diet under these same circumstances I'd be better off. But when I compare myself to the 2 vegans I work with - who essentially work the same hours that I do and have the same eating habits (ie, stuff your face when you've got 2 seconds to do it), I'd say I'm vastly healthier. Definitely not pure research going on there, but a neat anecdotal observation.
Maybe, someday, if I get a regular job and change my whole lifestyle, I'll have enough sense and dedication to make the big change to vegetarianism and make it count - somehow, I doubt I'll live that long.
Bulldog
[ This Message was edited by: bulldog on 2002-05-21 00:44 ]
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