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dairyfarmer
Jun 19, 2004, 12:25 PM
Post #26 of 35
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Registered: May 11, 2003
Posts: 51
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[quote="paulraphael"]Sure, going with a guide is a way to make it relatively safe. But it's not remotely the same thing as climbing it by yourself. Having someone else do all the decision making, all the routefinding, and of course, all the leading are just some of the things that make being a client different from being an alpinist.
Paul,
I disagree. It oftem makes finiancial sence when time is limited. More summits for your time and money, particuarly if you don't live in a alpine region and are a stranger to the area. Also great way to learn. But yes, not the same as doing it yourself. However any alpine climb I have done, usually the most experienced member was assumed to be the leader and was expected to make the same decisions a guide would make, so I guess there's not that much difference, IMO Thanks, Dick]
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drake
Jun 19, 2004, 1:34 PM
Post #27 of 35
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Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 136
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Notice that the guided trip for a "winter ascent" in the middle of March. Probably not just chosen at random but maybe because of better conditions and a higher chance of sucess.
The guys are not beating up up for fun. I don't think anyone hear wants you to get hurt and would rather read about your sucuessful trip climbing a peak that is better suited for a "1st alpine climb". Maybe look at the warnings and stack the odds of climbing something in your favor as not to waste a trip out west only to sight see, for the most part.
If someone posted "After climbing the West Butt on Denali with guide service, thinking of leading trip to climb K2" would have been met with same banter. You did not mention whether you have had any avalanche training/experience. That is a severe threat in that area in winter.
Fella's maybe he knows that his chances of summiting are very small and has chosen this mountain as his training ground. Knows very well that it might take several annual trips to climb it. He might have a great deal of experience on skis and skins in deep powder. He has just chosen not to list all his climbing, skiing, weather forcasting & backcountry experience. We just don't know.
You did ask for information and you are getting it in a round about way. The Grand in the winter is considered a pretty big objective for an experience mountaineer let alone, someone possible just starting the learning curve.
I got started by flying out to Rainier and doing the 5 day seminar. Glacier travel, practicing cravasse rescue, letting you "ice climb" on a tame serac. Then a hike to summit. Use the basics to build on. Then combining that with ice climbing, aid climbing and rock climbing, the choices become.......well....more than you can do in your lifetime. But you didn't ask for that so I'll shut up.
But the other hand, the bold ascents are the ones you have a tendancy to cherish.
Good luck and have fun
Cheers!
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theclimber
Jun 19, 2004, 8:15 PM
Post #28 of 35
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Registered: Sep 22, 2002
Posts: 59
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Drake,
Perfect response. I liked it because you were constructive and stayed away from the demoralising banter unlike what a lot of people do on this site. I agree with you 100%.
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pebbleman
Jul 8, 2004, 11:30 PM
Post #29 of 35
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Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 80
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The Tetons in winter? I like it… Since it is still a free country (until Bush/Cheney get back in) by all means go right ahead, the winter mountains are truly amazing, you’ll have a great trip.
Suggestions? Here’s my suggestion… Train, Brother, TRAIN!!! You need to be doing your roadwork, 3-4X a week, with a pack with two 8mm ropes on board, mass pull-ups, bouldering in boots (yes, with the pack) dry-tooling on plastic or choss with your boots on, cool? You should be training every day, a couple evenings at the gym spotting the tail in their yoga kit ain’t gonna do it, the altitude will eat you alive, especially if you are from near sea level (i.e., the east coast).
Keep in mind Xmas is the shortest daylight spell of the year (it’s a pagan holiday to mark the return of the Sun, right?), Autumn before the heavy snow comes (you can boot up, you won’t need skis) or later in the Winter (longer days heavier snow/ice buildup on the peak) might be better picks, but if you want to go, then go!
And for Chrissakes go light! Read that Marc Twight book “Extreme Alpinism”, a bit of a rant and somewhat dated, but it has some useful information.
Let me know how you make out. Now go train!
Who knows, you might see me up there.
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sandbag
Jul 8, 2004, 11:39 PM
Post #30 of 35
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Registered: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 1443
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here:
http://www.exumguides.com/winter/wclimbs.shtml
Jack Tackle's outfit. read the requirements before they will even drag you up. Its not impossible, just not a walk int he park, so train, learn your schitt and maybe youll make it out and back and not on the SAR news.
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johnhemlock
Jul 8, 2004, 11:48 PM
Post #31 of 35
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Registered: Apr 10, 2004
Posts: 311
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I tried it in late October about 8 years ago and it may as well have been winter. Icy, blowing snow, all the good stuff. Threw in the towel and helped rescue some gaper who got cliffed while hiking, spent the night out, and lost a toe or two.
Ignore those who want to shake a Darwinian fist at you and have a good time. I would say that avalanches are going to be your #1 enemy.
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ullr
Jul 8, 2004, 11:54 PM
Post #32 of 35
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Registered: Jan 29, 2004
Posts: 338
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Sensible winter ascent beta for the Tetons from someone who has climbed it four times in the winter (Owen-Spalding-Upper Exum) and a failed attempt on the N. Ridge.
The road closes waaayyyy before Lupine Meadows. The gate is back by the climbers cabins. This makes the slog in quite a bit longer. Bring skis if you have them, snow shoes are slow and inefficient. It is 5,000 vertical feet to the Lower Saddle, then another 2k to the summit.
The most important safety aspect of a mid winter ascent is avalanche awareness and safety. You must be good at route finding, avy danger assessment, have a transceiver (and know how to use it), probe, shovel, and an Avalung wouldn't hurt. For a route like the Owen Spalding, travelling safely in avy terrain is the crux.
The headwall above the 'meadows' can have some nasty avy prone slopes. As well as the headwall to the Lower Saddle. Often times the Owen Spalding itself can be a bit free of deep snow. Especially the terrain above the Upper Saddle.
Day One: If you are acclimated and fit you can get to the base of the headwall just below the Lower Saddle in one long day. Beware of your bivi location. Lots of avy paths can rifle down on you. The safest spot is on the lower saddle, but it's windy and much colder.
Day Two: Posthole, slog, or whatever to the Upper Saddle and the start of the technical climbing. Beware of the last 300 or so feet to the Upper Saddle, it can be avy prone. Usually the technical climbing goes well. The route is often free of snow enough to get around easy.
Weather: Sometimes Jackson and the valley will be in an inversion. You will wake up freezing your ass off and find that the following nights are warmer up higher. Seems strange, but it happens. I woke up in the parking lot in -30F one morning, the next morning around 11k it was much warmer.
Climbing: The technical part of the route above the Upper Saddle is easy. Climbing it in plastics and crampons is no big deal. There are actually several variations on the upper sections. Just pick one that suits you. Some route finding is necessary.
Good luck. Once again, avy savy is your MOST important asset to staying alive.
Dream big. :D
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ullr
Jul 9, 2004, 3:07 AM
Post #33 of 35
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Registered: Jan 29, 2004
Posts: 338
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I can relate to your enthusiasm for the unknown.
When I was a climbing noob with a bit of alpine experience, I was all gung-ho to take a whack at the following that would have killed me at the time:
Infinite Spur on Foraker (had only been done twice at the time)
N. Face of Alberta (hey, it's only 5.9 A3 right?) Ha!!!!!!
Emperor Face on Robson (there's a reason why it had not been repeated)
Good thing the Darwin Fist didn't take hold.
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trx
Jul 13, 2004, 1:03 AM
Post #34 of 35
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Registered: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 20
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Can I come, Thinking of snowlerblading black ice couloir?
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drake
Jul 20, 2004, 12:42 PM
Post #35 of 35
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Registered: May 24, 2004
Posts: 136
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UllR:
What's wrong with the Infinite Spur? Looks like fun to me. :wink:
Actually hoping to scratch up a partner to take a shot at it in the next couple years? I think finding a partner is going to be harder than climbing it. :shock:
Hey, the good news is that, the rock is better on the Spur than it is on Alberta or Robson!
Drake
Dare to fail!
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