Primrose Dihedral has had two bolts added above the "aid pin". I guess all the guide books need to be rewritten now to say "just bring draws for the fourth pitch"

Are you referring to the ear pitch? I don't recall there being an "aid pin" on the 4th pitch, which as I recall, is a handcrack in a corner (just after the downward traversing pitch). Could you be a little more specific?

Are you referring to the ear pitch? I don't recall there being an "aid pin" on the 4th pitch, which as I recall, is a handcrack in a corner (just after the downward traversing pitch). Could you be a little more specific?

Yes, the Ear pitch (sorry). Apparently, the last pin with a ring in it was used to stand on on the first ascent. There are now TWO BOLTS on the face ABOVE what used to be this last fixed piece. This really bums me out as I have not gotten to do this route yet and was looking forward to the adventure. It has now been tainted. Apparently someone added rap anchors all the way down the route as well meaning you can bail without leaving anything which changes the committment level of the climb also.

Oh My God! 2 Bolts?? Instead of a pin? Oh No! Sacrilege! You're not risking your life anymore...you're not a real maaaaaaaaannnnn!

(runs away screaming and disappearing ionto the mist)

Just climb.

why don't you do the climb and see for yourself what the situation up there is before you cry woulf on hearsay??

why don't you do the climb and see for yourself what the situation up there is before you cry woulf on hearsay??

I suspect the ASCA was responsible? Perhaps Greg could give us a little more background info (specifically if Ed was contacted)?

Why not take it up directly with Greg (aka Boltdude on this site) instead of
propagating potentially damaging, unfounded rumors?

Hardman Knott

And I'm saying that you should take it up directly with Greg, instead of
posting your "suspicions" to a website that gets 50,000 hits a day.

Quite simple. No offense intended.

Hardman Knott

I suspect the ASCA was responsible? Perhaps Greg could give us a little more background info (specifically if Ed was contacted)?

I stand by my comment, once again,

Yes, the Ear pitch (sorry). Apparently, the last pin with a ring in it was used to stand on on the first ascent. There are now TWO BOLTS on the face ABOVE what used to be this last fixed piece. This really bums me out as I have not gotten to do this route yet and was looking forward to the adventure. It has now been tainted. Apparently someone added rap anchors all the way down the route as well meaning you can bail without leaving anything which changes the committment level of the climb also.

Do you know that you CAN climb a route and NOT clip every bolt you come across don't you.

That is a specious argument. Having a bail-out option on a scary section of free climbing changes the experience and reduces the commitment level.

That is a specious argument. Having a bail-out option on a scary section of free climbing changes the experience and reduces the commitment level.

Just because it is there does not mean you have to use it. Heck way climb ElCap when you can just walk up the backside?

I think you've been successfully trolled.

(at least I hope it was a troll--you never know around here)

Hardman Knott

The ASCA has
never retro-bolted anything

asca hangers have found their way onto a retro job on a boulder problem(!) in lumpy ridge. i think they've since been removed, but the asca gives away bolts and hangers to just too many people to have a firm grasp of where every one of them goes. i am grateful for the asca's work and donate to them every year, but not everyone with asca bolts and hangers is infallible.

Remember, though, that the unnamed guides from a certain front range guiding operation are only using the ASCA hangers on retro-bolts and projects, "temporarily".

I guess I really don't know that it's been retro-bolted from the FA because 1) I don't know exactly how many bolts Ed Webster put on it, and 2) I haven't climbed it. What I do know is that as of Mar 1999 when the route was entered into climbingmoab.com, and I suspect for a lot longer, the last piece of fixed pro was a pin with a ring which people stood on, and then there were some spicey moves with possibly a .75 piece somewhere inside the crack.

It's interesting to look at Ed's original topo for the route (posted on climbingmoab.com). It sure looks like the bolts go all the way to the top of the Ear. Of course, for an old-school climber like Ed, that short squeeze (and hence the gap in the bolts) would probably be so minor that he'd hardly even remember it, so it wouldn't show up that way on the topo.

Whatever the story regarding aid/protection bolts, the new anchor bolts seem to be a great change. On ClimbingMoab.com, Mike Munger describes how the new anchors as well as the new climbing bolts bring down one of the desert's great climbs:
http://www.climbingmoab.com/...mrose_dihedrals.html
For those who don't know Mike, I'll just add that his observations should carry some weight; he's been a hard-core desert (and alpine, and wall) climber for more than three decades.

The rap off the tower used to go down the north face and wasn't that big of a deal. Thanks to who ever took the time to upgrade the protection.

As state before, Ed aid the ear pitch on the FA and there was at 5 fixed peices on that pitch in 1983.

There are 5 bolts and two drilled pins now. With the last two bolts above where the old ring pin was the run out has been eliminated.

wow,

thanks bob. finally someone who has an opinion based on something more than blind faith.

wow,

thanks bob. finally someone who has an opinion based on something more than blind faith.

Thanks to who ever took the time to upgrade the protection.

the point isn't who has done the route most recently....rather who has done the route most historically. i think those opinions matter.

the bravado and machismo associated with doing "scary" climbs by limiting safe adn reliable protection amazes me. If people feel so strongly about it, skip it! why doesn't someone ask soony trotter if he felt like he had an easy way out when he skipped bolts on monkey face recently. skipping bolts is a personal statement just like free soloing.

the point isn't who has done the route most recently....rather who has done the route most historically. i think those opinions matter.

the bravado and machismo associated with doing "scary" climbs by limiting safe adn reliable protection amazes me. If people feel so strongly about it, skip it! why doesn't someone ask soony trotter if he felt like he had an easy way out when he skipped bolts on monkey face recently. skipping bolts is a personal statement just like free soloing.

That's an interesting stance to take, Bob. So if the reports are true (and it seems Mike is a credible source), and someone has retrobolted the chimney, then that is something you support? Its great that someone has upgraded the bolt ladder, but adding bolts to a heady section of 5.9 free climbing... a section that hundreds (or more) of mortal climbers have safely navigated? I find your support surprising coming from someone who has argued against such actions in the past.

-Joe

the bravado and machismo associated with doing "scary" climbs by limiting safe adn reliable protection amazes me. If people feel so strongly about it, skip it!

Joe-Look when I first did the route! I done three times total. I enjoyed each ascent. I am glad that someone took time and made the effort to upgraded the original fixed protection.

That should clear things up.

When I climbed Jules Verne, I made sure my gear before the long run out was as bomber as it could be, then I climbed it. I knew that what I did was similar to the experience that Wunsch must have had years ago.

Well you should wear old PA's, a two-inch swami and leave all your trick gear behind (rp's, friends, alien etc) and leave behind the knowledge that the route already has been climbed a thousand times. Then you just might feel the same experience Steve did!

Well you should wear old PA's, a two-inch swami and leave all your trick gear behind (rp's, friends, alien etc) and leave behind the knowledge that the route already has been climbed a thousand times. Then you just might feel the same experience Steve did!

Joe- no I don't agree with adding extra bolts.

Thanks to who ever took the time to upgrade the protection.

Maybe YOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUU should climb it in PA's and leave behind your trick gear bobo.

I did the route in 1983 for the first time and thought the pins/bolts on the Ear pitch were ok. The pins and bolts were used for aid on the FA. Ed later came back with Steve Hong and freed the route. The route sees a lot traffic and upgrading the fixed protection doesn't bother me in the least. The rap off the tower used to go down the north face and wasn't that big of a deal. Thanks to who ever took the time to upgrade the protection.

As state before, Ed aid the ear pitch on the FA and there was at 5 fixed peices on that pitch in 1983.

Just re-read this message. Did you mean to say, "at least 5 fixed pieces",

Well you should wear old PA's, a two-inch swami and leave all your trick gear behind (rp's, friends, alien etc) and leave behind the knowledge that the route already has been climbed a thousand times. Then you just might feel the same experience Steve did!

Joe- no I don't agree with adding extra bolts.

Going back in a week to do it again, will see what is up.

incidentally, if i was trolling...i would have said something like:

"who cares if you did the runout....none of the mags care!"

so as i said earlier. lay off the ego.

incidentally, if i was trolling...i would have said something like:

"who cares if you did the runout....none of the mags care!"

so as i said earlier. lay off the ego.

That will be cool. Have fun and report back.

The ASCA has never retro-bolted anything, and as Greg has pointed out many times, he has declined to add retro-bolts at the request of FA-ists--specifically to avoid controversy such as this--which could be potentially cast the ASCA in a negative light.