The question I've been asking myself throughout this thread (I may have missed some finer points cause english isn't my native language):

So, I'm not "allowed" to feel proud for being hetero.
What is the alternative(s)?
Is it OK to be indifferent (is that the right word?)?
Or do I have to feel ashamed?

You state that it is acceptable for gay people to have pride in their sexual preference - gay pride - ...

but that for straight people to claim exactly the same right - straight pride - is "an offense".

The problem with your argument is very straightforward: it's discriminatory.

You state that it is acceptable for gay people to have pride in their sexual preference - gay pride - but that for straight people to claim exactly the same right - straight pride - is "an offense".

Is that your position or would you like to restate it?

Oh, I see.

Well, I'll leave it at that. I've already deconstructed both the arguments you've just re-presented, and I'm not inclined to go through it all again.

Thanks though.

Pride

In Christian dogma, pride (or vanity) is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is listed as one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

In English, the term "pride" also has a more positive sense referring to self-respect, a refusal to be humiliated (such as in Lesbian and Gay pride) as well as joy in one's accomplishments. In this sense, "pride" is among the most-quoted themes of political and societal discourse of English-speaking nations, especially of the USA. This stands in some contrast to that nation's general image of itself as a mostly Christian society.

Some languages distinguish between the two senses of pride; in French, self-respect is fierté and vanity is orgueuil.

Arrogance is the act of obtaining rights or advantages, including merely rhetorical advantages, through violence or threats of violence, or through verbal violence. Arrogance is as much an aspect of aggression as it is of pretension, which is unwarranted pride. An arrogant person is not merely unjustifiably confident in their own ability and value, but one actively seeking to cow or belittle other "lesser" people, in order to achieve their ends.

you may get a fuller understanding of the situation if you can honestly understand why people take offense at gay pride symbols.

The right word would have been 'tolerant'. And yes - it's okay and truly something you are allowed to be proud of. :wink:

- Daniel

I guess it's some kind of joke, and I don't get it.

I guess you are talking about my attitude towards others, that should be "tolerant"?
But I thought we were discussing attitudes towards ourselves. And being "tolerant" towards myself, well, I just don't get it? I can be proud that I tolerate myself, but I can't be proud of myself?

Fenix, great job of interpreting the hundreds of posts.

So, based on the fact that being a homosexual in and of itself has no merit;
And it is the living of a gay lifestyle;
And challenges posed by it may become a point of pride:

Gay pride is okay.

Now:

Being heterosexual in and of itself has no merit;
And it is the living of a traditional, dominant culture's lifestyle;
The challenges posed by it are not a point of pride.

Straight pride, not okay.

That's my argument.

I think we're mostly at one. What makes me believe that "Straight Pride" is offensive are two points. First of all I agree that it is silly. But people not tend to carry silly statements into public without a cause. So if it's on purpose, what is the point?

This brings in the second point. From what I wittnessed in the past years (I know many gay people, including my adopted elder brother) the struggle of the coming out and the constant hostilities lead to the subjective perception that sexuality is in fact the most defining character trait. At least for young gays who are on the active pursuit of their own position in life.

People know that and wearing a "Straight Pride" shirt therfore is at least an unsensitive joke, if not a pure despite. If I wore a shirt "Tall Pride" I'd know exactly that small people would be offended by it. So I don't - even if I'm glad (not proud) to be 6ft23.
- Daniel

There seems to be a perception, on this thread, and in society as a whole, that being part of the majority is somehow "bad" or reprhensible. This seems to be the only reason you have an issue with straight pride, which is at the very least hypocritical, if not altogether oppresive.

What happened here? A great thread just kinda died down?

-F

Excellent point, fenix. The crux of the issue.

Being part of the majority isn't neccesarily "bad," it just has a tendency to limit valid viewpoints. If you're a white man, you do not know the plight of the black woman, even if you spend your life studying it.

You can dissect and/or rationalize this any way you want, but in the end it's quite simply a double standard.

All I'm saying is take into account other people's reactions to your behavior and you'll see that "Straight Pride" jokes too much from a non-sympathetic angle.

If you laugh because you agree with how they are portrayed, then you need to get a little sensitivity training.

So much for freedom of thought.

oppression sucks. If you aren't sympathetic to that, then you are proving my argument.

If you want gender equality, sexual equality, or any other equality, you must dispense with preferential treatment of any side. That means all groups get the same rights, regardless of history, origin or size.