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24 HOUR ALERT!!! Boulder Area Climbers Do Something!
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sharpie


Dec 14, 2004, 2:09 AM
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     24 HOUR ALERT!!! Boulder Area Climbers Do Something!
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If you live in the greater Boulder area take the time tomorrow to call or email the Boulder City Council members (go here for their names and contact info: http://www.ci.boulder.co.us/...council/leaders.html) and voice your opinion about access to Boulder area climbing areas before tomorrow evening's "Study Session". Better yet attend the session:
Boulder City Council Study Session
December 14th
6:00 pm - 8:30 pm
Council Chambers
Municipal Building @ Broadway and Canyon


Many areas are in serious danger of permanent closure including Mickey Mouse Wall, Continental Crag, Upper Peanuts Wall and The Sacred Cliffs. As with many locally decided issues only local residents have a voice. YOU ARE THE VOICE FOR ALL CLIMBERS AT THIS CRITICAL TIME, MAKE OUR VOICE COUNT! Pass this on to your climbing friends, encourage other Boulder areas residents to do their part.

Go here to learn more: http://www.keep-open-space-open.org


sharpie


Dec 14, 2004, 1:57 PM
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If you read this and don't live in Boulder you can at least provide a bump in support so that we can keep this on the front page today.


rmiller


Dec 14, 2004, 2:03 PM
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Is their agenda to close these areas? What are the issues for these areas?


climbia


Dec 14, 2004, 2:07 PM
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bump, good luck with this.


michelleh


Dec 14, 2004, 2:36 PM
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Bump.

Hope this helps keep it upfront


roambb1


Dec 14, 2004, 2:43 PM
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Bump:
Best of Luck


Partner mahlon


Dec 14, 2004, 2:43 PM
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Good work Sharpie, I offer you in compensation a pat on the back.......................................And a shameless bump.

Bumpity bump bump!

Lets keep these areas open for all our Coloradians!


scubanclimb


Dec 14, 2004, 2:44 PM
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Bump. Let us know how it goes! Best of luck.


dpurf


Dec 14, 2004, 2:55 PM
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bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


mother_sheep


Dec 14, 2004, 3:09 PM
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More info:

http://www.keep-open-space-open.org/

and

The people who decide on the issue:

http://www.ci.boulder.co.us/...council/leaders.html

and

Bump


cologman


Dec 14, 2004, 3:56 PM
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It seems the good people of the "Republic of Boulder" have a hard time keeping track of what it is that drives their Eutopian State.


Bump


maww


Dec 14, 2004, 4:17 PM
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Thank you so much Sharpie. I will pass this along to my fellow climbers & friends in the area..along with an email to the board members.


areuinclimber


Dec 14, 2004, 5:07 PM
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bump! get er done!


Partner nextascent


Dec 14, 2004, 5:15 PM
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Don't live there but climb there often enough....

Thx for posting!


bdawg


Dec 14, 2004, 5:36 PM
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bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbump


md3


Dec 14, 2004, 5:48 PM
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Locals taking action is key, but more effective representation and action on these issues by the Access Fund would have been helpful. The people involved with the Fund need to accept their weaknesses in PR with anyone outside the climbing community and let more competent people take over.


Partner robdotcalm


Dec 14, 2004, 5:51 PM
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Message sent to city council


chanceboarder


Dec 14, 2004, 6:34 PM
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bump!

good luck you guys!


crankcase


Dec 14, 2004, 6:41 PM
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bumpits


blainemwalker


Dec 14, 2004, 6:57 PM
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(((((BUMP)))))


Partner gamehendge


Dec 14, 2004, 7:26 PM
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bump. Good Luck.


flanner


Dec 14, 2004, 7:34 PM
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Though not a local, I'm an avid Boulder-area climber and would hate to see some of these areas in jeopardy. Props to the thread,

Bump Bump


petsfed


Dec 14, 2004, 7:37 PM
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The affected areas:
Mickey Mouse Wall
Peanuts Wall
Continental Crag
The Sacred Cliffs

Keep these open! Mickey Mouse Wall is home to one of the most famous routes in the Boulder area, Perilous Journey. I used to be a Boulder climber, so help us psuedo expatriates out.


cavitycrew


Dec 14, 2004, 8:21 PM
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.:bump:.


takeme


Dec 14, 2004, 8:21 PM
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For those who've climbed in Eldo but not on Mickey Mouse, know that it would be a huge loss. It's almost as big and as stacked as the Redgarden Wall. There are many incredible multi-pitch trad and mixed lines, plus some of the best hard sport climbing in the Front Range (so I'm told) on the Industrial Wall which is part of Mickey Mouse.

The City Council discusses this tonight...do they also vote tonight, or does that take place at a later date?

And...bump.


jeffstephan


Dec 14, 2004, 8:40 PM
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Good luck!

bump.


tomclimbs


Dec 14, 2004, 8:52 PM
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Hi all,

I sent an email to our councilmen and got this response. Sounds resonable to me but I am not all that informed.
--->

As a rock climber myself, I share these concerns. However, I do not
believe that the proposal would close access to either Mickey Mouse Wall
or the Sacred Cliffs. Here is the answer i got from open staff staff on
the impacts of the proposed VMP on climbing access:


Question: How would climbers access areas that have had historic
climbing access, if off trail use is forbidden in HCAs?

Answer:
* Climbing requires a trail to the climbing base area, but it is
essentially off-trail in nature.
* OSMP intends to preserve virtually all existing rock climbing
opportunities. Most climbing areas, by design, were included in the
Natural Area designation where off-trail travel is allowed.
* The major climbing destinations in HCAs are The Sacred Cliffs
and the Mickey Mouse Wall. For the Sacred Cliffs, access will be
preserved by designating a climbing access trail and climbing use area.
* For the Mickey Mouse Wall, access will be preserved by
continuing the informal access options but seeking a more long-term
solution by working with the private landowner and the climbing
community to provide a sustainable designated trail.


wetyeti


Dec 14, 2004, 8:55 PM
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don´t you bouldarians have enough rock already??? that last post looks promising, i think. bump up the jam


balbus


Dec 14, 2004, 9:02 PM
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bump, good luck


jcinco


Dec 14, 2004, 9:07 PM
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In reply to:
I sent an email to our councilmen and got this response. Sounds resonable to me but I am not all that informed.

The problem is that provisions guaranteeing access to these areas are not explicitly stated in the plan. If OSMP really intends on preserving access to climbers, then why not write that into the plan? In its current form, the most obvious interpretation of the VMP is that climbing in these areas would be prohibited. Its all fine and good to promise access in the future, but they could just as easily renig on this promise.

In any case, bouldering would clearly be prohibited since the great bouldering near the Sacred Cliffs is scattered about the hillside.

For those who asked previously, the city council will not vote tonight. They are just in the process of refining the plan. I wrote the city council several weeks ago. I got short responses from several, but Shaun McGrath wrote a very detailed letter (presumably the same one he sent to everyone). I highlighted the details below:

In reply to:
Thank you for your email regarding the proposed Open Space and Mountain
Parks Visitor Master Plan (VMP).

City Council members have received numerous emails and letters on the
various issues surrounding the VMP, and there has been a very lively
public debate through op-eds, letters to the editor, newspaper articles,
and in public forums. Clearly there is tremendous interest in the final
outcome of the VMP.

In this message, I would like to state my strong support for the process
that has taken place to date and my optimism for how this plan will be
finalized. Notwithstanding the rhetoric and posturing that is currently
going on from people on all sides of the issue, the proposed plan has
been developed with extensive and thoughtful input from the Community.
The Open Space Board has contributed greatly; the OSMP Department staff
has contributed greatly; the Visitor Plan Advisory Committees have
contributed greatly; and the Community Group Forum has contributed
greatly.

At issue now is not whether City Council should choose the Board's
proposal over the Community Group Forum's proposal over the staff
proposal, but for the City Council to draw on all of the expertise and
information from all of these groups, and make informed decisions on
those areas in the VMP for which there currently is not agreement, i.e.
nighttime curfews, competitive events, off-trail access in the Habitat
Conservation Areas (HCAs), dogs, and the so-called "precautionary
principle" or "dealing with uncertainty."

Council will formally begin our consideration of the Plan this Tuesday,
December 14 from 6:00 - 9:00 p.m. The Study Session will take place in
the Council Chambers and will be televised on Channel 8. During this
Study Session, Council will have the opportunity to ask the Board, the
OSMP staff, Community Group Forum representatives, and VPAC
representatives questions about the Plan and the various alternatives
that have been proposed. We will then give staff direction on how to
further draft the Plan on these outstanding issues.

A revised draft Plan will be available early next year, which will
commence a public review. It will next go to the Planning Board and Open
Space Board for their review and recommendations, and in the spring will
come to Council for our final consideration.


I remain very confident that this process will allow City Council to draw
upon the tremendous wealth of expertise that we have in our community-our
OSMP staff, Open Space Board of Trustees, the member groups of the
Community Group Forum, the Visitor Plan Advisory Committee members, and
the many concerned and well-informed community members-to make informed
decisions resulting in a Visitor Master Plan that allows public access
where it is appropriate while ensuring the long-term health of the lands.

Again, thank you for your email.

Shaun McGrath
Boulder City Council


pv_climber


Dec 14, 2004, 9:10 PM
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bump


theturtle


Dec 14, 2004, 9:41 PM
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Good work sharpie! Stay on 'em, don't let them close our crags!


sonus


Dec 14, 2004, 10:19 PM
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As a climber who has made the trip from Chicago to Boulder last summer, I would hate to see ANY crag in this beautiful area closed. I want to experience as much as I can of the place, and plan on making my visit an annual affair.

Bumpity bump bump...

What's the status?


foeslts16


Dec 14, 2004, 10:22 PM
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bump


cacti-tro
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Dec 14, 2004, 10:37 PM
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bump

tro


punkclimber52


Dec 14, 2004, 11:05 PM
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dump........i mean bump. bump dang it, bump...doh!


ikefromla


Dec 14, 2004, 11:15 PM
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word.


jon06


Dec 14, 2004, 11:40 PM
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Leave it to "The Man" to f--- things up!
Bump


mab


Dec 14, 2004, 11:43 PM
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bimp


mab


Dec 14, 2004, 11:44 PM
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crap


sandbag


Dec 15, 2004, 1:05 AM
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bump so i can figure out whats going on here


juststrange


Dec 15, 2004, 1:21 AM
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I SAY
BUMP


danrauscher


Dec 15, 2004, 2:10 AM
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looks like its about to go off the front, so...
BUMP


juststrange


Dec 15, 2004, 6:14 AM
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crap it fell off but im here to save it



BUMP


joshklingbeil


Dec 15, 2004, 7:58 AM
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BUMP


phxtradrock


Dec 15, 2004, 8:01 AM
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badabadabump keep it open


sharpie


Dec 15, 2004, 3:05 PM
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This report was given by a climber in attendance last night:


Regarding the access issue previously posted on
climbingboulder.com for the Mickey Mouse, Peanuts,
Continental Crag, Sacred Cliffs, and Upper Peanuts as
addressed by the proposed OSMP (Open Space & Mountain
Parks).

Agenda addressed:

Commercial Use of Lands - It seemed this topic was
discussed as to definition. It seemed that area impact
by group size/frequency would be more appropriate to
discuss for future management plan than analyzing
visitor's profit/non-profit motives for being in the
open space areas.

Competitive Events - conflicting ideas within the
Council and staff; this idea would be discussed
further. The possibility of having one event and up to
four events as a pilot program was discussed.
Spectator management seemed to be at issue.

Night-time Curfew - Not addressed while I was there.
Reallocation & Acquisition Funding - Not Addressed.

Dog Management - dealt with non-leash vs leashing of
dogs in various classifications of land use. The
council indicated that Boulder was indeed one of the
few open space areas where dogs can be off leash in
certain areas. Various committees had contributed to
management plan of this topic and the council seemed
favorable to the plan recommendations.

Trail Planning & Projects -
Off-trail use in Habitat Conservation Areas -
These two topics concerned the climbing community.
Council members were open to comments in a favorable
manner and some had already agreed to work with the
Access Fund regarding the problem with the
aforementioned crags. The access problem deals with
the main trail heading to these crags dead ending into
private property; then back to open space land to
where the crags are located. Boulder will not promote
a trespass into this land; but they did seem to
indicate they were willing to work out the access in
some way. Whether that means gaining an easement right
from the landowner or development of a better managed
trail system is planned to be discussed with the
Access Fund and Council. So it appears that while
access is in danger, the access is being worked on.
The Council was very much willing to try and work with
the climbing community.

However - still an unclear issue was the
classifications of open space lands and how these
classifications would affect climbing areas. The
Council was at odds regarding classifications and will
work on this plan further. It seemed the issue was
preservationist versus recreational visitor use.


I would say that being at the Boulder Council meeting
was like a night and day situation when compared to
the Denver Mountain Parks' policies with regard to
recognizing the contribution of climbers to the
Colorado and American heritage and the importance of
promoting the recreational use of the public mountain
areas in Colorado. Having Council members hold up
climbing books and state the importance of such was
very encouraging (hopefully it won't turn out to be a
dog and pony show)

I hope climbers find this information useful and
continue to follow up with the proposed management
plan and policies of all public agencies.


Yours Truly,

Mark Nelson


juststrange


Dec 15, 2004, 3:52 PM
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Back to the top with you


peggy


Dec 15, 2004, 4:25 PM
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bump
Never want to see an area closed


sharpie


Dec 15, 2004, 5:50 PM
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Thanks to everyone who has posted and helped keep this topic in front of our community leading up to yesterday's meeting. No doubt the debate will continue, and I will try to keep you all informed of any developments.


maww


Dec 15, 2004, 6:02 PM
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Thanks for the update Mark. I received two emails in the last two days from the council. Here is the 1st:

Lara--
Thank you for your email regarding the proposed Open Space and Mountain Parks Visitor Master Plan (VMP).

City Council members have received numerous emails and letters on the various issues surrounding the VMP, and there has been a very lively public debate through op-eds, letters to the editor, newspaper articles, and in public forums. Clearly there is tremendous interest in the final outcome of the VMP.

In this message, I would like to state my strong support for the process that has taken place to date and my optimism for how this plan will be finalized. Notwithstanding the rhetoric and posturing that is currently going on from people on all sides of the issue, the proposed plan has been developed with extensive and thoughtful input from the Community. The Open Space Board has contributed greatly; the OSMP Department staff has contributed greatly; the Visitor Plan Advisory Committees have contributed greatly; and the Community Group Forum has contributed greatly.

At issue now is not whether City Council should choose the Board's proposal over the Community Group Forum's proposal over the staff proposal, but for the City Council to draw on all of the expertise and information from all of these groups, and make informed decisions on those areas in the VMP for which there currently is not agreement, i.e. nighttime curfews, competitive events, off-trail access in the Habitat Conservation Areas (HCAs), dogs, and the so-called "precautionary principle" or "dealing with uncertainty."

Council will formally begin our consideration of the Plan this Tuesday, December 14 from 6:00 - 9:00 p.m. The Study Session will take place in the Council Chambers and will be televised on Channel 8. During this Study Session, Council will have the opportunity to ask the Board, the OSMP staff, Community Group Forum representatives, and VPAC representatives questions about the Plan and the various alternatives that have been proposed. We will then give staff direction on how to further draft the Plan on these outstanding issues.

A revised draft Plan will be available early next year, which will commence a public review. It will next go to the Planning Board and Open Space Board for their review and recommendations, and in the spring will come to Council for our final consideration.

I remain very confident that this process will allow City Council to draw upon the tremendous wealth of expertise that we have in our community-our OSMP staff, Open Space Board of Trustees, the member groups of the Community Group Forum, the Visitor Plan Advisory Committee members, and the many concerned and well-informed community members-to make informed decisions resulting in a Visitor Master Plan that allows public access where it is appropriate while ensuring the long-term health of the lands.

Again, thank you for your email.

Shaun McGrath
Boulder City Council

The 2nd letter was a brief note of thanks; the author also said I may receive future updates from the council regarding this matter. I do hope they consider our input in future decisions.

Again, thanks for this info and the updates.

Cheers,


hippie_dreams


Dec 15, 2004, 6:29 PM
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mmmmmBUMP!


takeme


Dec 15, 2004, 8:27 PM
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In reply to:
This report was given by a climber in attendance last night:



Trail Planning & Projects -
Off-trail use in Habitat Conservation Areas -
These two topics concerned the climbing community.
Council members were open to comments in a favorable
manner and some had already agreed to work with the
Access Fund regarding the problem with the
aforementioned crags. The access problem deals with
the main trail heading to these crags dead ending into
private property; then back to open space land to
where the crags are located. Boulder will not promote
a trespass into this land; but they did seem to
indicate they were willing to work out the access in
some way. Whether that means gaining an easement right
from the landowner or development of a better managed
trail system is planned to be discussed with the
Access Fund and Council. So it appears that while
access is in danger, the access is being worked on.
The Council was very much willing to try and work with
the climbing community.

However - still an unclear issue was the
classifications of open space lands and how these
classifications would affect climbing areas. The
Council was at odds regarding classifications and will
work on this plan further. It seemed the issue was
preservationist versus recreational visitor use.


I was at the meeting last night. The private property concern mentioned above deals only with the Mickey Mouse Wall; however, there is also the issue that Mickey Mouse was originally included in one of the Habitat Conservation Areas proposed in Visitor Master Plan. This was perhaps the greatest source of concern for climbers, as the HCAs were meant to be closed to all off-trail access (meaning that social trails, such as the one providing access to Mickey Mouse Wall, would be closed). My impression from the meeting was that the Council members have taken public comment to heart and intend to see to it that significant climbing areas, particularly Mickey Mouse Wall, will continue to be accessible by whatever means necessary under the finalized VMP. Several council members, notably Will Toor and Crystal Gray, spoke very strongly in our favor, and noone spoke in opposition although the Open Space Mountain Parks manager's response (he was the one who presented the proposed VMP) was more beaureacratically worded than I would have liked. Also, I'm not sure if I heard correctly, but I thought someone mentioned at one point that part of the HCA meant to include Mickey Mouse Wall has already been recently redrawn in the proposal so that the wall will specifically not be included.

Danger still lurks in arbitrary decisions that the OSMP board may be able to make in the future. It was clear at various points throughout the meeting, especially in the final half hour, that a number of folks with what seem to be anti-recreational views remain. It isn't clear what kind of factual basis or deliberation will be required in the future for any drastic actions that OSMP may try to take (e.g., in 5 years suddenly deciding that Mickey Mouse Wall is in grave ecological danger, and summarily closing it without any real evidence or debate).

Still, my ultimate impression is that the immanent threat to access is not as bad as I had feared. But we climbers need to stay on top of this issue, that's for sure!

Charles


Forums : Climbing Information : Access Issues & Closures

 


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