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sidepull
Nov 15, 2004, 3:51 PM
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hey,
I was just checking madrock's site and they have some killer updates to their line of shoes. I think the new sharks are about the coolest looking thing on the planet.
Anyone bought any of the new models?
I think it's awesome how progressive madrock has been and how they're changing the industry and forcing other companies to re-think their pricing and quality.
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e_wire
Nov 15, 2004, 4:25 PM
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The only reason why madrock shoes are cheaper, is because the founder (of Madrock) left Five-Ten ripping off Five-Ten technology and patents. He then turned around and got his shoes made in sweat-shops of China. Compare - Five-Ten are made in Redlands CA, LaSportiva in Italy, etc... Countries where workers have rights.
e_wire
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curt
Nov 15, 2004, 4:28 PM
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In reply to: The only reason why madrock shoes are cheaper, is because the founder (of Madrock) left Five-Ten ripping off Five-Ten technology and patents. He then turned around and got his shoes made in sweat-shops of China. Compare - Five-Ten are made in Redlands CA, LaSportiva in Italy, etc... Countries where workers have rights. e_wire
Perhaps, since you have no idea what you are talking about, you should not comment.
Curt
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colkurtz
Nov 15, 2004, 4:34 PM
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In reply to: The only reason why madrock shoes are cheaper, is because the founder (of Madrock) left Five-Ten ripping off Five-Ten technology and patents. He then turned around and got his shoes made in sweat-shops of China. Compare - Five-Ten are made in Redlands CA, LaSportiva in Italy, etc... Countries where workers have rights. e_wire
ridiculous statement of the day.
nurse had had to break out the sphygmomanometer
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overlord
Nov 15, 2004, 4:44 PM
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well, you know, its the climbing urban legend.
yes, flash do LOOK like 5.10 anasazi velcors, but if you look closely youll see the difference. not to mention flash are leather and anasazis are not.
as for ripping patents, dont you think that 5.10 would sue him??? i sure as hell would.
and 5.10 arent made in the USA anymore, theyre just "assembled" there. at least the uppers are made in taiwan (or is it china, i forgot because i dont really care).
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e_wire
Nov 15, 2004, 4:59 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The only reason why madrock shoes are cheaper, is because the founder (of Madrock) left Five-Ten ripping off Five-Ten technology and patents. He then turned around and got his shoes made in sweat-shops of China. Compare - Five-Ten are made in Redlands CA, LaSportiva in Italy, etc... Countries where workers have rights. e_wire Laughably inaccurate. You should try reading more & writing less.
Well, read the latest Climbing magazine then... You'll learn a thing or two...
As for country of origin, read follow the link:
http://www.mec.ca/...&bmUID=1100537916431
Under the images, you'll see a MADE IN:...
e_wire
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e_wire
Nov 15, 2004, 5:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The only reason why madrock shoes are cheaper, is because the founder (of Madrock) left Five-Ten ripping off Five-Ten technology and patents. He then turned around and got his shoes made in sweat-shops of China. Compare - Five-Ten are made in Redlands CA, LaSportiva in Italy, etc... Countries where workers have rights. e_wire Laughably inaccurate. You should try reading more & writing less.
Well, read the latest Climbing magazine then... You'll learn a thing or two...
As for country of origin, read follow the link:
http://www.mec.ca/...&bmUID=1100537916431
Under the images, you'll see a MADE IN:...
e_wire
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colkurtz
Nov 15, 2004, 5:06 PM
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just to be very clear. regardless of any possible patent issues, your comment about buying from countries where workers have rights is uninformed, and sad--i'm sure your heart is in the right place but in this area you have no idea how to use your money to help people
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e_wire
Nov 15, 2004, 6:11 PM
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In reply to: just to be very clear. regardless of any possible patent issues, your comment about buying from countries where workers have rights is uninformed, and sad--i'm sure your heart is in the right place but in this area you have no idea how to use your money to help people
Well, if I'm wrong, explain it to me... It's a known fact that workers in China have close to no rights. You can't compare rights of workers in the US and Italy to the ones in China...
This link might give more info... If not, again, explain and I'll listen!
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/...r_china/wr_china.htm
As for the patent stuff... I didn't invent anything. There's a long and very interesting article on the founder of FiveTen that overlooks the issue with Madrock. All in the november issue.
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crazyfingers
Nov 15, 2004, 6:36 PM
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Sweet, a shoe thread that turned into an international labor relations debate.
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e_wire
Nov 15, 2004, 6:40 PM
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In reply to: Sweet, a shoe thread that turned into an international labor relations debate.
Huh... guess you're right... Ok, they do have nice designs and all. Also very cheap. But I will not buy them anymore due to personal beliefs! :?
e_wire
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colkurtz
Nov 15, 2004, 7:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: just to be very clear. regardless of any possible patent issues, your comment about buying from countries where workers have rights is uninformed, and sad--i'm sure your heart is in the right place but in this area you have no idea how to use your money to help people Well, if I'm wrong, explain it to me... It's a known fact that workers in China have close to no rights. You can't compare rights of workers in the US and Italy to the ones in China... This link might give more info... If not, again, explain and I'll listen! http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/...r_china/wr_china.htm .
here is what i think: the lack of unions is not a human rights issue. unions are an expedient tool for dealing with working conditions etc, because labor laws in many countries allow for a monopolistic practices by the unions. this solves the problem in the short term not in the long term where unions are detrimental to economic growth as in any monopoly.
reading the human rights website the only thing i find completely objectionable is forced labor. safe working conditions should be enforced but it is not a right. there used to be a law in new york around the turn of the century that prevented people from working long workweeks for their own health. well my view is that if my family was going through hard times i would work in a dangerous conditions (we do it all the time in the usa or western workers in iraq) you just get paid well. having the choice to work is something that can be taken for granted. maybe they have rights that are not enforced, but then there is forced labor of illegal chinese workers in the united states too (on the news last week). what do the people who make the shoes have to say? cheap labor and other factors ( i.e. environment) allow for cheaper goods from china. but you can really hurt the people you want to help by boycotting products from their country.
what does boycotting do? well it can change a companies practices, but you have no issue with the company (nelson sports) that makes madrock shoes. do you? i don't know about the right of the workers in their factories. if i knew that they were an abuser i wouldn't buy their products. but you only seem to have an issue with the fact that they are made in china. i bought a pair of chaco's in asia and they said 'made in china.' well that is probably b/c the webbing or something was made there. you don't see that on products 'assembled' in the usa and bought in the usa.
does boycotting china made products help chinese workers. i don't think so, it slows down the economic progress that’s for sure. the economy getting worse certainly can not help workers. what if madrock was a shinning light is a horror show of sweat shops? who knows--i don't (though i have a memory of a picture of their factory which didn’t look bad from the outside)
social progress often goes hand in hand with economic progress (chile is a nice example). of course, it is not solely based on money as freedom and capitalism are interdependent. (as a side note people confuse freedom with democracy--they are not the same)
so if the reason to boycott madrock is to boycott china then maybe you should boycott five ten because their tax dollars have funded the usa systematic human rights abuses of indigenous people in central america. or maybe if you don't like the war in iraq, boycott the usa and italy.
my point is this. i don’t think boycotting madrock because of china’s problems will do anything good for the people of china and could hurt the people you want to help. if madrock were indeed a nefarious company then i would agree with you, but i have to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
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karmaklimber
Nov 15, 2004, 7:46 PM
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They actually do look pretty sweet, but they don't fit my foot, so....
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erbolache
Nov 15, 2004, 9:06 PM
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my anasazi velcro (almost 3 years old now) says "Product of Korea".
about madrock, I'm very glad they appear, I think more (and different) competition in the market will turn into better quality, innovations, and more effort from all shoe companies in the next years.
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sidepull
Nov 15, 2004, 9:07 PM
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just curious, where is the article concerning stealing of patents from 5.10? climbing? rock and ice?
Madrock has always maintained that they made shoes for someone else, but I think their radically different designs prove that they weren't just stealing from someone, at worst they took good ideas and improved them and at best their innovators. In either case the climbing community profits - new technology, better prices, more variety, etc.
This is not meant to ignore the discussion above regarding workers' rights or glorify capitalism.
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bandidopeco
Nov 15, 2004, 9:20 PM
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as to the patent issue, I'm friends with Bridwell who works for madrock, and he said that Young Chou (SP) designed the shoes for 5.10 off his own foot. So when he split off to start his own company he continued that practice. Is this wrong? Do you think that 5.10 should have the patent to his foot?
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dynoguy
Nov 15, 2004, 9:28 PM
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In reply to: well, you know, its the climbing urban legend. yes, flash do LOOK like 5.10 anasazi velcors, but if you look closely youll see the difference. not to mention flash are leather and anasazis are not. as for ripping patents, dont you think that 5.10 would sue him??? i sure as hell would. and 5.10 arent made in the USA anymore, theyre just "assembled" there. at least the uppers are made in taiwan (or is it china, i forgot because i dont really care).
I laughed so hard when someone said the flashes are exactly like the anasazis, except that they cost $70 less.
The only thing they have in common is color :lol:
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e_wire
Nov 15, 2004, 10:00 PM
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In reply to: just curious, where is the article concerning stealing of patents from 5.10? climbing? rock and ice?
In the November issue of Climbing, there's a long article on the founder of Five Ten and a quick mention of patent infrations in court right now.
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phetus
Nov 15, 2004, 10:21 PM
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Sweat-shops are hot!!!
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phetus
Nov 15, 2004, 10:24 PM
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Sweat-shops are hot!!!
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sidepull
Mar 2, 2005, 5:10 PM
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thought I might resurrect this thread and wash away the past debate regarding workers rights and just ask: has anyone tried the new maniacs or sharks? I haven't seen them in any stores and I'm wondering what people think, if you've seen them, etc.
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pushsendnorcal
Mar 2, 2005, 5:33 PM
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Manics-
Well designed training/warm-up slipper. This shoe is simple and it works as an all around design but doesn't specialize in anything which works well if your gym climbing or warming up at the crag. Again pretty simple
Sharks-
Same last/sole design as the previous with the following improvements/changes. The sole depth is increases which means it won't wear down as quickly. The toe hook rubber is now more pronunced with three large ridges, along with the heel cup change with four large ridges. Personally these are my favorite mad-rock shoes. Very good at grabbing small dimple footholds, but still way flexible for sloper smears.
Hooker Velcro/Lace-
Same thing as the sharks, the sole and last design are very close to the original and the heel and toe rubber changes.
Unsure of when these shoes come out.
Hope that helps
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quickclips
Mar 2, 2005, 5:53 PM
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Well the reason I don't wear madrocks is because I know plenty of people who jumped on that band wagon and had their shoes fall apart/ wear out to fast on them.
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