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kalcario
Feb 19, 2005, 4:33 AM
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*But It's good form to leave draws on every bolt at a sport crag?*
Leaving slings or links on bolts is bad form because it makes it difficult/impossible for the next guy to get a draw on that bolt. Fixed draws or bail biners are the accepted method; please behave accordingly thank you.
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wlderdude
Feb 19, 2005, 5:38 AM
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I made a big, beefy steel hook just for this purpuse. Strong enough for any rappel and tough enough to survive being pulled off the bolt by a recovery string (it would only come off the bolt after the rope is pulled).
Then I thought about how much it would hurt to pull the thing down on my head, so I never actually used it. It would have been kind of killy.
I can use made up words like killy since this is the begginers forum, right? It seems like a question better suited for the Sport Climbing Forum, but hey, you are already on the second page!
Good luck and safe climbing.
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crag_shwagger
Feb 19, 2005, 6:09 AM
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Bail biners, cheap and alll around fun to use :P
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kpj240789
Feb 20, 2005, 4:05 PM
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You've down climbed 3 bolts not down climbied.
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kpj240789
Feb 28, 2005, 11:00 PM
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i'd probably buy a parachute and jump off, besides it would be hella cool even if you were only 40ft off the ground.
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ceramiclover
Feb 28, 2005, 11:16 PM
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you don't need to be less than 1/3 ropelength off ground if you do the set up more than once. the sling might get messed up, though.
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bmxer
Mar 4, 2005, 8:53 AM
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couldn't you just fall and unclip, then fall and unclip until you get down?
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jorian_nl
Mar 4, 2005, 9:40 AM
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In reply to: couldn't you just fall and unclip, then fall and unclip until you get down?
I think the bail biner is the best and safest option. I spend rather $5 on a bail biner than falling your way down and messing up my ankles.
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markc
Mar 4, 2005, 3:18 PM
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In reply to: couldn't you just fall and unclip, then fall and unclip until you get down?
You wouldn't just be falling, unclipping, and repeating. Consider that every time you fall, you're falling twice the distance from your last clip. Now you have to get back up to the last clip, clean it, and fall again. That's a lot of unnecessary catches on your rope, unneeded falls, and reclimbing of a route you couldn't complete to start with. That's a lot of exerted energy people may rather save up. As jorian_nl mentioned, there's always some risk when falling.
I have downclimbed sport routes that weren't at my limit. It's good practice for downclimbing, but quite a different strategy from intentionally taking falls to back off. Also consider that people may decide to bail after tiring themselves out on a route. They may rather just get down than screw around with it. A $5 oval does the trick in a flash.
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glyrocks
Mar 4, 2005, 3:39 PM
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Yea, a bail biner/quick-link is the quickest and safest way to get down. The sling/rope trick works well and is quick once you get it dialed, but if you screw it up, you could deck. Unclipping and falling repeateadly is a stupid idea.
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jw11733
Mar 4, 2005, 4:02 PM
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For the bail biner, do you use lockers?
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markc
Mar 4, 2005, 4:11 PM
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In reply to: For the bail biner, do you use lockers?
Personally, no. I count on the constant weight on the biner keeping it in place. However, I'd never criticize anyone for choosing to use a locker. It's all about doing what you're comfortable with.
Once again, please do not use quicklinks for bailing. I understand they're cheap, but they're also a pain to clean.
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olipab
Mar 4, 2005, 4:46 PM
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Ive never done this, but ive heard you can use a FiFi hook, and just flick it back out when your at the base of the route.
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taraus_de_bull
Mar 4, 2005, 5:18 PM
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In reply to: couldn't you just fall and unclip, then fall and unclip until you get down?
use that method on a slab with bolts that are 10 ft apart. you'll quickly realize sliding 20ft on slab HURTS. plus all the other stated reasons of why not too.
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bg
Mar 4, 2005, 5:18 PM
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Check out the tech tips on climbing.com they demonstrate how to do the whole sling through the bolt thing really well. I have done it and it works fine. But remember that you can only do this when you are 1/3 of the way up the rope. Otherwise you will run short.
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chanceboarder
Mar 4, 2005, 5:52 PM
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here's a method i've only used once but seemed to work well for me to back off a sport route and not leave anythign behind. on a route my partner and i couldn't finish we've taken a cordelette (7mm and 20' in length). at the last bolt that we couldn't get pass we've threaded the cordelette through the bolt hanger to the mid point of the cordelette (please note that if you're bolts are more then 10' feet apart you're gonna need a longer cordelette). after you've threaded the cordelette you put yourself on rappel with your atc and then remove your quickdraw from the bolt. then while still on beley from your main rope (in case something goes wrong your belayer will catch your fall just like a lead fall) you do a double rope rap from that bolt to the next one down having your belayer take in slack as you go. then have your belayer take and hold you at the next bolt then pull your cordelette from the bolt above and repeat the whole processe over again until you've made it to the ground. yeah i know this can take a long time if you're several bolts up but its an alternative to leaving a bail biner or when the rope trick is not an option for some reason.
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aikibujin
Mar 4, 2005, 6:47 PM
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In reply to: ... on a route my partner and i couldn't finish we've taken a cordelette (7mm and 20' in length). at the last bolt that we couldn't get pass we've threaded the cordelette through the bolt hanger to the mid point of the cordelette (please note that if you're bolts are more then 10' feet apart you're gonna need a longer cordelette)...
I think you're talking about just a length of accessory cord. A cordelette is specifically a length of accessory cord tied into a loop.
Wondering how much wear you had on the cord after you finished with all the rappels through the hanger.
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bustloose
Mar 4, 2005, 7:03 PM
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i think it's funny that so many people are happy to claim 'booty' from bail biners, (and even fixed sport routes, but i won't go there) and in the same breath they say there is no way in hell that they will climb on someone else's draws on a route if they don't know the history...
as for this issue, read before you post people, is it that hard??
the slippery sling is the best way down from a route if you have enough rope do do it. NO, you don't lower off it. NO, it doesn't stay behind.
there is enough room on 90% of hangers for a quicklink AND a draw, you're not bothering anyone by leaving a quicklink...
READ, think, then post.
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campo
Mar 4, 2005, 7:08 PM
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In reply to: Ive never done this, but ive heard you can use a FiFi hook, and just flick it back out when your at the base of the route. |
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chanceboarder
Mar 4, 2005, 7:30 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: ... on a route my partner and i couldn't finish we've taken a cordelette (7mm and 20' in length). at the last bolt that we couldn't get pass we've threaded the cordelette through the bolt hanger to the mid point of the cordelette (please note that if you're bolts are more then 10' feet apart you're gonna need a longer cordelette)... I think you're talking about just a length of accessory cord. A cordelette is specifically a length of accessory cord tied into a loop. Wondering how much wear you had on the cord after you finished with all the rappels through the hanger.
i didn't find any wear on the cord because it wasn't actually running through the hanger other then being threaded and pulled after the rap, at which time there was no weight on it. the only time there was any friction on the cord was during the rap. your belay device doesn't put any more wear on it then a normal rope and the pressure of the cord sitting on the hanger during the rap which didn't show any wear on it either. keep in mind i've only used this method once and i'm sure that long term use of this will wear your accessory cord down in the spot where it rests on the hanger much fast then normal.
but whats 7mm or 8mm cord going for these days? gearexpress has 7mm cord for $0.37 a foot, that's like $11 to get 30' which will get you down 15' from that bolt (that should be good enough for most sport areas) to the next. then lets say the cord wears out after maybe 20 uses or so (just a guess). that's still cheaper then spending $5 on a bail biner every time.
lets face it, there are several different ways to get yourself off a sport route in the event that you can't finish it. if you have bail biners use them. if you have enough rope and sling use the rope trick. if you have accessory cord you can lower from bolt to bolt and clean. but don't leave quick links. yes i know that most hangers are big enough to clip a draw and a quicklink in them at the same time but on harder routes you don't want to have to deal with something else being in the hanger to clip the bolt. quicklinks that are left for periods of time are just like other gear and will become rusted and can become very hard to get off unlike a regular biner. i've had friends have to carry up wrenches and WD40 to loosen old quicklinks up to get them off.
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aikibujin
Mar 4, 2005, 8:00 PM
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In reply to: but whats 7mm or 8mm cord going for these days? |
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indamtnsbj
Mar 4, 2005, 8:12 PM
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I used to use a small, prussik cord to run through the remaining space in the bolt, then hook my daisy to the prussik. Hang off the prussik cord, take off you quickdraw, then untie and run the rope through the bolt. Pull the rope and rap off.
Has anyone ever done this?
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chanceboarder
Mar 4, 2005, 8:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: but whats 7mm or 8mm cord going for these days? I wasn't really concerned about the cost of the cord, I was genuinely interested in learning about how the cord held up. Say someone bails like this 10 bolts up, then they have to do 10 short rappels. Even though the cord wouldn't be running over the hangers at the exact same spot on every rappel, it will be in the same general vicinity - the middle of the cord. Is there any danger of the accessory cord worn through in the middle with 10 rappels? I don't know, I've never tried it myself. That's why I was wondering.
In reply to: I used to use a small, prussik cord to run through the remaining space in the bolt, then hook my daisy to the prussik. Hang off the prussik cord, take off you quickdraw, then untie and run the rope through the bolt. Pull the rope and rap off. Has anyone ever done this? |
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topher
Mar 4, 2005, 8:38 PM
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bail binners are great but on most sport climbs one can usaly french aid there way up it..it can be tuff but it usaly works...
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crimpandgo
Mar 4, 2005, 9:15 PM
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In reply to: bail binners are great but on most sport climbs one can usaly french aid there way up it..it can be tuff but it usaly works...
So, what do you do if cant reach the next bolt?
Use a bail biner on the previously reached bolt
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