|
camsticker
Jul 2, 2002, 4:47 PM
Post #26 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 10, 2002
Posts: 138
|
I am with you Woodse! Humans try to put themselves too high above other species:roll2: ...when in fact maybe it is US (Humans) that are the ones that cause the most anoyance...not the 4-legged pooch wondering around the crag. I have seen the same thing time and time again at crags all over the west...cigarette butts, soda cans, water bottles, just plain crap! All left by HUMANS not DOGS. AND as far as the noisy dog barking...someone should record the sounds of "Anywhere USA" crag, I bet you would find that the loudest noise would be from HUMANS not Canines. As long as the pets that are at the crag are social...they should be free to hangout!!!
|
|
|
|
|
howitzer
Jul 2, 2002, 4:53 PM
Post #27 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2002
Posts: 2511
|
I know Doosh! I wouldn't want to clog up the VO's you're still working on there, bro! I never said that my dog is not a problem for others, I said my dog is well behaved - so what is the problem exactly? I don't always bring her, I'm just saying it shouldn't be an issue because the land is there for everyone to use and that includes folks with dogs.
I think people like you are much more of a nuisance, but unfortunately you're still allowed at the crags...
[ This Message was edited by: howitzer on 2002-07-02 09:54 ]
|
|
|
|
|
climbsomething
Jul 2, 2002, 4:55 PM
Post #28 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 30, 2002
Posts: 8588
|
I usually bring my dog with me when I climb. She is also a husky and loves the outdoors. I don't follow her around with a pooper scooper because, frankly, we are in nature, and what is more natural than poo?! Since she does not evacuate anywhere near the climbs or trails (my pup knows there are some things we just keep private) I don't worry about it. It's out there where it belongs, in the yonder with the squirrel turds, which I am certainly not concerned with either...
and as to her being a nuisance, I see this kinda like I do smoking at the crags. If people speak up at the time, then I will observe their request and keep my dog from annoying them. But if they don't, then I am going to assume they don't mind, and also assume they aren't going to go whine about it later. Because she is MY puppy, I am biased and assume she is a joy to all, so you're just going to have to tell me straight-up if you don't agree. And that's ok, I understand my dawg is not for everybody so I will accomodate. Communication makes us civilized
AZ is a pretty friendly place for crag dogs. I have seen all varities of crag dog here, from mutt to pit bull to great dane to lap dog. they all get along, and so do their people. I'm kinda surprised by the reaction elsewhere!
|
|
|
|
|
doosh
Jul 2, 2002, 4:57 PM
Post #29 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
|
The problem is that well bahaved dogs shit, too.
Actually, people like me ARE more of a nuisance than dogs. Dogs don't tell you exactly what you are doing wrong and why...
It's kinda like the old chicken and the egg scenario, or the whole "which is more important the engaging grip or the executing grip" thing...
|
|
|
|
|
camsticker
Jul 2, 2002, 5:14 PM
Post #30 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 10, 2002
Posts: 138
|
Doosh--humans crap too! In fact, this past weekend at Malibu Creek RRRadam had to deal with some human crap before he could ascend a route.
|
|
|
|
|
howitzer
Jul 2, 2002, 5:21 PM
Post #31 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2002
Posts: 2511
|
so the problem is feces doosh? that's it?
|
|
|
|
|
doosh
Jul 2, 2002, 5:40 PM
Post #32 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
|
No, that's not it... but feces are a good starting point.
Yeah, humans crap too, but generally, a good climber knows to bury his dumps in the woods.
Personally, I am not against dogs at the crag. I love dogs. However, I understand the position of those who are FULLY anti-dog. So, I will go into it a bit further.
First, dogshit is nasty. When out "in nature," especially when climbing or belaying, the dog owner doesn't know when or where the dog has shit, and so it doesn't get cleaned up.
Secondly, YOUR dog might be cool, but I don't know that. When a strange dog runs up to you or is on a leash as you walk past, you never are 100% sure how that dog is going to act towards you. Generally, I am too trusting of dogs, but it has led to me being snapped at one more than one occasion.
Thirdly, this is a safety oriented sport. If you are attached to the rope in any way and your dog is free, you cannot give them the supervision they deserve. Even the best behaved dogs get underfoot, stand their ground against more agressive dogs and beg for food. Some even eat food right out of people's pack.
While boldering, falling onto a dog is unsafe for both the climber and the dog.
Lastly, not all dogs are well-behaved. Sure, YOURS is. But, the majority of dog owners think that their dog is well-behaved and if people would just train their dogs better, this wouldn't be an issue.
I love it how dog owners continue to assert that THEIR dog is a goodboy but OTHER dogs are the problem.
ATTENTION: IF YOU ARE A DOG OWNER WHO TAKES A DOG TO THE CRAG, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM, NOT THE SOLUTION.
It doesn't matter if your dog is motherf---ing DEAD. It is still a dog at that crag and promotes the idea that dogs at the crag are ok.
I have nothing against dogs, at the crag or otherwise... I just can't stand the way that dog owners pretend that they aren't part of what everyone is bitching (pun?) about. You are. Your dog is.
Take responsibility for that much, at least.
|
|
|
|
|
howitzer
Jul 2, 2002, 7:10 PM
Post #33 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2002
Posts: 2511
|
Thanks for finally coming up with some substance doosh... And since I am a bitch (so you say) and so is my dog (proud of it), I will be sure to assert myself accordingly: 1. Doosh: "Personally I am not against dogs at the crag"
2. Doosh: "I have nothing against dogs at the crag or otherwise"
3. Doosh: "Even if your dog is dead it promotes the idea that dogs at the crag are OK"
So which is it doosh? OK or not OK, your contradictions are showing. I've met my share of bad dogs, too - that's why you don't go right up to them without talking to the owner first. If a person doesn't like dogs, than stay away it's as simple as that. I do the same thing with people smoking at the crag which smells ten times worse that dog poo if you ask me, but I don't ask them to leave and not bring their butts next time. And as far as I'm concerned no dog should be running free at the crag for many reasons like you mentioned... It should be attached to the ground, rock whatever. See we actually agree on some things doosh! Wow!
I said it before, I will say it again - I did NOT say that my dog is NOT a problem for other people, I said she is well trained. And I said other DOG OWNERS are the problem - so if you are going to make a point at least get what I wrote straight before you try to tell me I'm wrong! Stu asked for our opinions and I gave mine, as a dog owner. I certainly see why others would not want my dog or any dog at the crag - but 1/3 of the people are going to be against everything you do all the time, so it's really a no win situation no matter what.
|
|
|
|
|
danwilli
Jul 2, 2002, 8:21 PM
Post #34 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 15, 2002
Posts: 220
|
It seems as though we've deviated slightly from the original posting, so I'm going to start a new posting entiled....
"I'm a whiner, and like to bitch and complain, and tell other people they're stupid, and that they're opinions are wrong and stupid, and if you feel the same way, come post your opinions so I can tell you you're stupid!"
Please move all non-related postings there.
|
|
|
|
|
bolder
Jul 2, 2002, 8:30 PM
Post #35 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 28, 2002
Posts: 203
|
As a dog owner, I never leave my dog indoors for the day when I am going to enjoy the mountains. There is nothing my dog enjoys more than going exploring with me at climbing areas. I think there is some common sense though. I never bring my dog when doing multi-pitch climbs or when the approach is too difficult. Dogs should be able to go to the cliffs and enjoy the day with their owner. The owner just needs to be responsible and clean up after them and keep them under control. Then there is no problem.
|
|
|
|
|
doosh
Jul 2, 2002, 8:40 PM
Post #36 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
|
How-
Obviously the dead dog/coma dog comment was sarcasm...
Yeah, we agree on certain things... like how dog owners are the problem and how your dog, if it is controlled at the crag, is prolly ok in my book.
It's just a long and boring day and I have to play the devils advocate to get work people up...
|
|
|
|
|
danwilli
Jul 2, 2002, 8:47 PM
Post #37 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 15, 2002
Posts: 220
|
I might get kicked off the sight for saying this, but...
I like doosh. I think he's funny, and often very well spoken, and brings up realy good arrguments. The other half of the time, he provokes and prods at people. But I think that's funny. I also find it funny how some people take his provoking and prodding so seriously. Ha!
Keep up the good work doosh!
[ This Message was edited by: danwilli on 2002-07-02 13:48 ]
|
|
|
|
|
newtocalgary
Jul 2, 2002, 8:52 PM
Post #38 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 16, 2002
Posts: 97
|
The dog is only as good as the owner My bull terrier all 80 lbs of him has been to 38 countires with me Sat on the plane seat beside me throughout europe, sat in a 500$ a plate restaurant with me in Paris and has been on hundreds of cliffs with me. I have never once had an incident (exept to warn me of a few snakes a coyote, and bear) People like him he could care less about most people and IS ALWAYS ON LEASH
|
|
|
|
|
climbinganne
Jul 2, 2002, 8:57 PM
Post #39 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 15, 2002
Posts: 11679
|
My name is Anne....and I too like Doosh...I find many great qualities in doosh...he really does make you think, and I get a jolly out of how he mixes things up!!!! He makes me think and smile most days when I need one. I fear though...he may be winning friends and influencing ppl...and thus his Q-rating is being affected....ummmmmm....you just may need some of that medication after all doosh....STOP IT!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
doosh
Jul 2, 2002, 9:36 PM
Post #40 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
|
I was going for a 420 q-rating... EVERYONE GIVE ME 4s and 5s !!!!!!111
OMG!
I am glad that my presence here does not go unnoticed.
|
|
|
|
|
espinosa
Jul 2, 2002, 9:37 PM
Post #41 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 140
|
aww great...
why don't you all just blow him.
until the recent hip problems my pooch went with me to the crags. she would simply bite any dog that got in her face till people stopped bringing their dogs. now there are no dog issues as mine is the only one there.
problem solved.
|
|
|
|
|
doosh
Jul 2, 2002, 9:38 PM
Post #42 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
|
I like that whole "blowing me" idea.
Watch the open sores!
|
|
|
|
|
espinosa
Jul 2, 2002, 9:39 PM
Post #43 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 140
|
thats lube dude
this thread will now be moved or deleted
|
|
|
|
|
climbjs
Jul 2, 2002, 10:06 PM
Post #44 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2002
Posts: 379
|
I like dogs, but I don't like them at crags. Perhaps it is the owners that I don't like. First of all, most owners unleash them and, while the dogs are running all over the place, the owners are saying "Don't run over there", but not doing a thing about it. I hate dog fights, ass-sniffing, dogs barking while I'm on a crux, my belayer paying more attention to the dog than me, etc. For those who say "Don't climb next to me if you don't like my dog", I say go climb somewhere with bears. Ignorant and disrespectful owners whose animals tread on those of us who don't CHOOSE to bring pets to crags desreve to have their dogs eaten by bears.
|
|
|
|
|
dustinap
Deleted
Jul 2, 2002, 10:11 PM
Post #45 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
For one, I strongly dislike dogs.
For two, I'm scared of dogs.
I'm not happy, and will voice this to the owners if their dogs act up.
I have been to Lover's Leap multiple times when I've been charged by dogs. They were FRIENDLY dogs, but still made me mad, and scared. Once a toulumne there were not so friendly dogs, that barked practically non-stop.
|
|
|
|
|
samshafer
Jul 3, 2002, 9:58 AM
Post #46 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 27, 2000
Posts: 127
|
I'm actually glad that the Park Service has banned dogs from the path around DT. Used to allow them if on a leash. Leashed or not they're a pain when they start barking.
My former partner used to take his little kick-puppy along for years & the dog was actually a pretty good scrambler. I remember once we had climbed a long steep approach & rather than back climb the whole thing, he made a harness for the dog & rappelled down with him. That was cool.
|
|
|
|
|
theamish
Jul 3, 2002, 12:22 PM
Post #47 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 19, 2002
Posts: 144
|
Did you ever stop to wonder why dogs are banned from so many places ? Do you think it's a plot against the dog lovers of the world ? Actually it's because, other than yourselves, most people don't enjoy your pet. The attitude you display "if you don't like my dog, go somewhere else to climb" just reinforces the ever growing lack of tolerance people have for your pets.
|
|
|
|
|
howitzer
Jul 3, 2002, 1:03 PM
Post #48 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2002
Posts: 2511
|
Doosh is the greatest! I love reading what he has to say, and I love pitting myself against him in many instances, especially when he likes to imply that I smell bad, my dog and I are bitches, and I am a lesbian! It's great! He's made this site much more exciting for me - I actually don't even go to forums anymore I look at his profile and go wherever he's gone. Keeps the workday healthy and interesting if you ask me, and I don't take him seriously people! I just like to push things a bit with him, that's all. But anyone who actually likes this guy has serious issues, looking at some of the things he has said to others. And just to answer a few points - Photon: I totally agree with you, a good dog owner gets its dog exercise and plays with it which I do every day since she is a sled dog, but a good dog owner spends time with their dog as well since dogs like to be with their owners more than being left alone and that's why I bring her sometimes. Oh, and I was kidding about the 'don't climb near me if you don't like dogs' people! C'mon, you think I'm serious about that?! It's a joke folks - like how people say if you don't like me smoking don't stand near me... Some people do take things too seriously!
But I realize the reason my dog isn't allowed so many places is because others don't like her and people who don't own dogs don't understand the connection we make with them - as they are like your child. I am going to stop bringing her climbing and to any other place where she might bother others, since I don't think I ever realized how much other people don't like me having her around. Disappointing, but at least my fiance and I can still enjoy her company.
[ This Message was edited by: howitzer on 2002-07-03 06:45 ]
|
|
|
|
|
climbinganne
Jul 3, 2002, 2:07 PM
Post #49 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 15, 2002
Posts: 11679
|
1. howitzer:Doosh is the greatest! I love reading what he has to say
2. howitzer:He's made this site much more exciting for me - I actually don't even go to forums anymore I look at his profile and go wherever he's gone. Keeps the workday healthy and interesting
3. howitzer:anyone who actually likes this guy has serious issues
So which is it howitzer?
your contradictions are showing
DON'T YOU JUST LOVE CUT AND PASTE!!!
[ This Message was edited by: climbinganne on 2002-07-03 07:08 ]
|
|
|
|
|
howitzer
Jul 3, 2002, 2:36 PM
Post #50 of 61
(2140 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2002
Posts: 2511
|
The fact that he makes the site more exciting and riles people up is a good thing, but from the things he has said to me as well as some others doesn't mean I like the guy - when I say he's the greatest I mean the greatest at getting sh!t started and mudslinging - I do enjoy (in a sick sort of way) reading what he says, watch him be a d!ckhead, and seeing peoples reaction to it (mine included). But as I said, some of his posts have made me dislike him strongly. (And I'm not talking about this forum). Again, doesn't mean I like him. Or you. Why are you even posting here, just to support a guy who makes fun of people when someone they know died?? I can think of a few more examples if you need them. You have said nothing about the topic, Anne! Which is why i posted here and had to defend myself in the first place! Go make the 'I love Doosh Forum' for your loving remarks.
[ This Message was edited by: howitzer on 2002-07-03 07:50 ]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
