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jimpanzee
May 5, 2005, 1:29 AM
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A father and son set up a rappel off of Tarzan (a 100 foot climb). The son started rappelling and got down about ten feet. He then started to go faster and faster until he was almost at free fall speed. He hit the deck and managed to land on his feet and rolled on to his back. He did not sustain any noticeable injuries. He had pain in his leg, but he managed to hobble off. We were amazed that he took an almost free fall from 90 feet above the deck and he was seemingly ok. Apparently he lost control of the rope after having rappelled down ten feet. After talking with him, we found that there were several factors that contributed to his fall. 1) he was rappelling off of a single line (a 10 mm brand new rope) 2) he was wearing belaying gloves (which did not necessarily cause the accident, but in his case (not very experienced) did not help) 3) he was using a figure 8 for his rappel (once again not so good for inexperienced climbers because of the speed one can rappel at) 4) all-around inexperience (his dad took a course on rappelling at Disney World). Upon closer inspection, we also noticed that he had not doubled back his harness.
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valeberga
May 5, 2005, 1:42 AM
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Playing commando, eh? :roll:
Although I'm not sure I agree that the glove was a bad idea, I'd want a glove on if I had to grab an accelerating rope.
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iceisnice
May 5, 2005, 1:48 AM
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not a big surprise. according to last year's Accidents in North American Mountaineering the largest cause for mordidity and mortality in North America was rappel failures. so many people shouldn't be having accidents with such a basic technique. this isn't rocket science. glad the kid is ok.
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jazzmann
May 5, 2005, 2:05 AM
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One of my first lessons as a young climber was,"never trust anybody that just rappels"..
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elron
May 5, 2005, 2:39 AM
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glad he's ok! As I started reading the post I couldn't quite figure out how a kid (assuming he doesn't weigh all that much... less than i do anyways.. 175) could build up much speed way up high on the tarzan rap. Its a full length rap and the weight of the rope tends to slow you down signifcantly... I usually need to feed rope in especially up top. But i guess when you add all the other pieces (single strand, Fig 8 rap device) it makes sense. Ouch! Thats not a great landing either. he's lucky he didn't smack into one of the rocks down there.
Did you happen to get any other info from them? was this their first rap for the day? Had they tried anything "easier" like the practice face? again, glad he's ok. scary stuff
Kevin
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spikeyhair13
May 5, 2005, 2:46 AM
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man, if i could survive 90 foot falls....
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jumaringjeff
May 5, 2005, 2:26 PM
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Dad should have given him a fireman's.
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skateman
May 5, 2005, 2:31 PM
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I witnessed this accident last night. It wasn't an accident, it was deliberate!
I offered to call an ambulance and told the kid not to move. I met up with the bad dad after and had some words with him.
quoting an e-mail an e-mail sent by a fellow climber this morning:
The Saturday Mark and I skied Mount Wachusetts and then went climbing at Crow Hill we saw a Dad and an adolescent son who was out “thrill rappelling”. They set up a single line rap over a wet Franny’s Folly. The kid had on these big thick rappel gloves. He would run to the edge and leap off, zipping down at a virtualfree fall and braking to a stop just before decking. It was a pretty amazing display. They had both a dynamic rope and a static rope and the kid was testing both. The object appeared to be to determine on which of the two types of ropes he could generate the most speed. They were going out to buy a longer rope to do longer rappels since the ones they had reached only to the bottom of Franny’s. It didn’t appear to be a safe exercise and I didn’t think the Dad was showing the greatest judgment in the world.
I think the poster misinterpreted what they observed. I willing to bet it was our “thrill rappelling” father and son team in action. If so, there wasn’t any loss of control of the rappel. It was done deliberately. Sounds as if our intrepid speed rappeller misjudged speed or distance or both and had a hard landing. Hopefully the incident will bring one or both of them to their senses and get them to reevaluate what they are doing, but I doubt it. The part about the harness not being doubled back is really scary. Plus I love to the bit about the Dad receiving his training at Disney World. Sounds about right. There are some very interesting people in the world!
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corpse
May 5, 2005, 2:56 PM
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How old is this guys son? I'm curious if we are talking about an impressionable young teen, or a late-teen or older that is capable of making fully informed decisions by themselves.
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skateman
May 5, 2005, 3:01 PM
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I would place the kids age at around 13 or 14. Definitely not of driving age.
S-man
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kman
May 5, 2005, 3:08 PM
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In reply to: After talking with him, we found that there were several factors that contributed to his fall. 1) he was rappelling off of a single line (a 10 mm brand new rope) 2) he was wearing belaying gloves (which did not necessarily cause the accident, but in his case (not very experienced) did not help) 3) he was using a figure 8 for his rappel (once again not so good for inexperienced climbers because of the speed one can rappel at) 4) all-around inexperience (his dad took a course on rappelling at Disney World). Upon closer inspection, we also noticed that he had not doubled back his harness.
How do you figure that these contributed to his accident???????
Sounds like the only contributing factors were inexperience and stupidity. If the 8 broke...then it would be a contributing factor.
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corpse
May 5, 2005, 3:14 PM
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With the kid at that age, if it was indeed what you witnessed, I wonder if the cops should be called in. IMO, this is a perfect case of child endangerment.
Some people may judge us parents that take our kids climbing, that its dangerous, however, as parents we do *everything in our power* to ensure the activity is as *safe as possible*. This means knowing what we are doing, if we don't, get more training. This is double checking what the kids are doing and ALWAYS assuming they WILL forget something (ie: finishing their knot). My 11 and 8 yr in their 3 years of climbing have never mistied their tie-in, yet I still ALWAYS check it, and I always remind them to check MY knot and harness. This isn't anal, this is looking out for the people you love and care about.
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skateman
May 5, 2005, 3:34 PM
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You can see in my initial post that this father/son combo has been doing this for a few weeks now.
When I witnessed the accident, I wasn't sure why they had two different ropes strung up for a single rope rap. As my buddy indicated: They had both a dynamic rope and a static rope and the kid was testing both. The object appeared to be to determine on which of the two types of ropes he could generate the most speed!
I have since notified the parks commission to keep an eye out for these two. Don't want to see him injured or see him plummeting onto an innocent bystander.
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jimpanzee
May 5, 2005, 5:15 PM
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I had no idea that they were "speed rappelling." That's brilliant. He failed to mention this to us, but this does explain why when we asked him if he had done this before he said, "yeah, look at the burn marks on my gloves." Burn marks... In my original post, I did not mean that rappelling with a figure 8 caused his fall. Instead I meant that as an inexperienced rappeller (which I thought he was, instead he is experienced in this insane act) and with the other factors (a thinner, new, single line rope) it would have been better for him to have used a device that would give more friction on rappel, such as an atc.
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dynosore
May 5, 2005, 5:42 PM
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"speed rappelling", not doubled back, :wtf:
How did this kid ever make it this far with a dad like that? Maybe one of you locals could "adopt" him and take him out and teach him a little saftey sense...
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hanginaround
May 5, 2005, 6:21 PM
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Of the four factors you believed contributed to this fall only two were really valid: newbie’s teaching newerbie’s is a terrific formula for tragedy. Don’t try to teach until you're proficient and experienced. And although you couldn’t put your finger on to correct reasoning, you’re right, inexperienced repeller’s should never wear gloves. The friction generated by a rope moving quickly through your hands will teach you to keep your repel under control in no time.
However a 10 mm rope and a figure 8 (rigged correctly) provide plenty of friction even on a single line.
The real problem here was the lack of a backup or a belay. I have read quite a few repelling accident reports, in every case either a backup safety device or a fireman’s belay would have prevented the accident. Although redundancy is the first commandment of climbing, it is often overlooked on the way down. Be safe, back-up your repels!
My guess is they weren’t wearing helmets either?
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crimpandgo
May 5, 2005, 6:56 PM
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In reply to: Of the four factors you believed contributed to this fall only two were really valid: newbie’s teaching newerbie’s is a terrific formula for tragedy. Don’t try to teach until you're proficient and experienced. And although you couldn’t put your finger on to correct reasoning, you’re right, inexperienced repeller’s should never wear gloves. The friction generated by a rope moving quickly through your hands will teach you to keep your repel under control in no time. However a 10 mm rope and a figure 8 (rigged correctly) provide plenty of friction even on a single line. The real problem here was the lack of a backup or a belay. I have read quite a few repelling accident reports, in every case either a backup safety device or a fireman’s belay would have prevented the accident. Although redundancy is the first commandment of climbing, it is often overlooked on the way down. Be safe, back-up your repels! My guess is they weren’t wearing helmets either?
I beg to differ with your analysis. I think if they used a fireman's belay, the fireman belayer would have gotten injured instead of the rapeller.
They were speed rapelling. I hardly doubt they were too concerned about backing up the rapeller.
Also, If he wasn't wearing gloves, he most likely would have gotten more injured. His hands would have been burnt to the core.
Again, they were speed rapelling.
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drector
May 5, 2005, 7:45 PM
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I'm not sure that rapelling this way for fun is such a bad thing.
Lots of kids do flips on bikes, skis, snow boards, etc... and break their necks and backs. Lots of people bungy jump (or usd to when it was cool). Kayakers drown all the time in class 5 rapids (or not). This is just another way to have some semi-protected fun.
As for endangerment, the kid is probably safer doing his stunt than he was in the driver over there. Who says that parents need to keep their kids from physical activities that are dangerous. Turn the guy in and the next thing you know is that your on your way to jail for letting your kid ride their bike in the street!
I'm glad to hear it was not a real accident.
Dave
P.S., I did this cool rappel into Moaning Cavern a while back (15 years ago). There is a flat area where the walking tour people stand and if you push hard off of the wall and drop really fast, you can swing over the fence and land on the platform. I burned the crap out of my fingers right through the gloves. Of course it was the third time I'd done it.
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hanginaround
May 5, 2005, 10:34 PM
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Crimpandgo,
I'll agree and disagree with you.
A belayer would've certainly have had to have gotten out of this guy’s way at some point, but he might have helped the rapper bring his descent back under control and thus avoided the accident.
And while you're right, they obviously weren't too concerned about backing up the rapper, my guess is the next time they will be. A mechanical device like a Petzel Shunt could have saved the day without impeding their speed repel. While still effective, an autoblock, prussic, or any of the other rope rap type back-up’s probably would have slowed down these thrill seekers.
Finally, the gloves. My guess is if he didn't have them, he wouldn't have been going so fast, but if the goal was just a speed rap, he would have toasted his hands or just let go and fallen. I wear gloves when I rap, but I teach newbie’s to go without them until they're confident with their skills.
While repelling is a simple skill that is easily learned, there are heavy penalty points for losing control. Redundancy is absolutely required for safety, it saved me a couple times.
Be safe – back-up your repels!
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sinshan
May 6, 2005, 12:03 AM
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sounds to me like a classic case of darwinism at work. . . these folks are obviously tempting fate for the sake of "fun." Maybe the dad doesn't know any better, but I think it'd be hard to make that argument, seeing as how he's allowing his son to leap off of 100' cliffs and build great speed. Doesn't take much know-how to understand this could be deadly.
To me this raises a larger question - - what's the responsibility of those who "know better," e.g. feel the risk is huge and the parties reckless? I know there's lots of ideas about this. . . I myself said this was darwinism at work, but not sure I could stand by and watch this, I'd probably have a few words, as other posters mention. . .
yikes
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d.ben
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May 6, 2005, 1:24 AM
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I don't really want to be climbing at Crow Hill and see a kid injured from a fall I could be taking if my sh*t goes real bad, or rescue someone and see them suffer like that for nothing. If you're trying generate speed on a rap for fun, wouldn't a cliff a little taller that Crow Hill provide a little better margin of error? Hope the kid learns how to double back at least and he didn't screw up his ankles.
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philfell
May 6, 2005, 2:19 AM
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In reply to: Kayakers drown all the time in class 5 rapids (or not).
How often is "all the time"? Daily? Weekly? I know a few Kayakers should I warn them their number is up? I guess they only have a few more river trips left in them.
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gearhead
May 6, 2005, 3:35 AM
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Certainly the main reason this happened was the stupidity/ignorance of the father and the kid. Properly used, the new rope, single line rap and the 8 shouldn't have been a problem but when put together with these two thrill rappellers it was a receipe for disaster. Thankfully the lack of helmet and the harness not being doubled back did not come into play.
The speed at which this kid hit the deck was scary. I watched the entire descent and the whole thing happened so fast that I didn't realize he had landed on his feet first. All I saw at the end was him on the ground on his back. I can still hear the sound he made when he hit. I was sure we had a head/spinal injury or death on our hands. The place where he landed is filled with rocks. I was stunned when he sat up. He was lucky enough to land on his feet and fall backwards on the only area clear of rocks at the base of the climb. If he had been a foot further in any direction I don't think he would have walked away from it.
When talking with him we asked him what happened and he told us "I don't know, I couldn't slow down. I kept trying " He kept insisting that "I've done this before." When asked where he motioned over to the Main Face so this is probably the same two Skateman's buddy saw on Franny's Folly. He also uttered the now famous line "I took a course at Disneyworld." and told us that his leg hurt. So the kid did lose control and he did injure his right leg. I would not be surprised if he has some stress fractures or something more serious. In anycase he's lucky to be alive. What bothers me most about this incident is the father and his attitude. He took his time getting down from the top and didn't seem to care about what happened to his son. Some quotes from this genius...
"So can you walk...? Good." Shouted from the top. Never asked if the kid was actually ok.
"I did the math. You don't want to know how fast you were going."
"Come on let's go. I'm not going to wait around for you."
Darwinism in action? You bet. Do kids do other dangerous things? Sure. But remember that some idiots don't always injure just themselves. My friend was belaying on the route next to Tarzan just 5 minutes before boy wonder came over the edge without warning. She could have easily been some collateral damage. I had a school group out there that day. If he had been seriously injured or died they would have seen the whole thing and been victims too.
Some good things did happen...
1. There were two ropes set up for the rap. Amazingly they did do something right and chose not to rap on the other line which was 15 feet short of the deck and did not have a knot tied at the end of it.
2. My climbing kids have not complained since then about my harping on them about safety checks and are now doing double and triple checks.
Skateman thanks for giving that father a talking to. I was going to smack him instead. Some people should not be allowed to reproduce.
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nedsurf
May 6, 2005, 4:39 AM
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In reply to: we saw a Dad and an adolescent son who was out “thrill rappelling”. They set up a single line rap over a wet Franny’s Folly. The kid had on these big thick rappel gloves. He would run to the edge and leap off, zipping down at a virtualfree fall and braking to a stop just before decking.
Seriously hope the two learn a little safety practices. I would give them one of my prussik cords if I thought they would use it.
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slobmonster
May 6, 2005, 5:01 AM
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This particular activity must be a Massachusetts tradition... I remember seeing some free-falling sport rappellers at the Quarries in the mid-eighties.
Maybe one of them survived long enough to have kids.
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